first of I would like to say that I love allnurses.com. This community is very supportive and I am glad to be a part of it. My situation is I am a junior in the nursing program. Suppose to be a senior next year. I am not going back. I knew people were cheating in one of the classes. I hear the students talking about it. I mentioned to the director that some students had an unfair advantage because they were getting information from the upper class. One would think she would check e mails some how. I am sure she would see the info being passed. Then when I got home the other day I found a test and 33 pages of all the material we did in community this semester and a copy of one of the tests that we took. Our final is Wed. 5 / 12 / 11 at noon. I can't even bring myself to study for the final because I am so upset. Should I bring this to the schools attention? Should I give them the test and the homework for the year. Should I bother taking the exam. I already dropped my nursing for next semester and am finishing my four psych classes. I am so.... with the program. My school is also upset because they had a 70% pass rate and are in danger of losing their creditation. Well I know why. I watched people cheat all through the program. If I can see it then why do teachers turn a blind eye? They say they do not permit cheating and yet they never do anything about it when people get caught doing it. more so why does it bother me so much? Maybe I should just let it go and not say a word. I have had enough. apparently I am not smart enough to cheat.
As always thanks for listening. It is ten minutes until three. I should try and get some sleep.
first of i would like to say that i love all nurses.com. this community is very supportive and i am glad to be a part of it my situation is i am a junior in the nursing program. suppose to be a senior next year. i am not going back. i knew people were cheating in one of the classes. i hear the students talking about it.
here is the problem #1...you hear students talking about it...but you did not witness it.
i mentioned to the director that some students had an unfair advantage because they were getting information from the upper class.
so what? i have never seen a nursing school that recycled exams because of the nclx blueprint changes. i got help from upper classman...so what? they didn't do my papers for me nor study nor take any of my exams for me...i did that on my own. think about what tutors do...they have taken the class they are tutoring in before and can help you what to study and focus on...that is not cheating.
one would think she would check e mails some how. i am sure she would see the info being passed.
again, how do you know this? because someone said so? again, did you witness it personally???
then when i got home the other day i found a test and 33 pages of all the material we did in community this semester and a copy of one of the tests that we took.
when you got home? did someone break into your house and use your printer??
our final is wed. 5 / 12 / 11 at noon. i can't even bring myself to study for the final because i am so upset.
so, you are blaming someone else for the fact you cannot study?
should i bring this to the schools attention? should i give them the test and the homework for the year.
why? did you not go to class and get the same homework assignments and tests as everyone else? i keep copies of everything i turn in...any smart student, does.
should i bother taking the exam. i already dropped my nursing for next semester and am finishing my four psych classes.
so this is the real issue...you don't want to be in the nursing program anyway and you are looking for an excuse to drop out. if you are going to let the actions of other people choose your fate, then seriously...drop out of college altogether and never get a job, because the only person that has control over you is you.
i am so.... with the program. my school is also upset because they had a 70% pass rate and are in danger of losing their creditation. well i know why. i watched people cheat all through the program.
no, you did not witness cheating...so far you haven't listed one occurrance of cheating...all you listed is 3rd hand information and rumor.
seriously, another student can actually sue you for slander if you report that they were cheating and they were not b/c you never witnessed it. how would you like it if you were a nurse and another nurse reported you to risk management because they said that they "heard" that you come to work impaired? how would you like it if they just up and fired you over rumor?
if i can see it then why do teachers turn a blind eye?
because so far, not a person that witnessed the cheating reported them. they cannot report students for cheating to the honor council or similar organization without evidence. so far, you haven't provided any.
they say they do not permit cheating and yet they never do anything about it when people get caught doing it. more so why does it bother me so much? maybe i should just let it go and not say a word. i have had enough. apparently i am not smart enough to cheat.
you would have more time if you focused on your own schoolwork instead of worrying about someone else.
i am not trying to be mean or cruel, but seriously....this is a huge problem in nursing schools. there is always rumors about someone cheating but unless you witness it personally, you have no right to say anything to an instructor...period.
it is good training for when you get a job...b/c unless you personally witness someone breaking company policy, human resources is not going to care about rumors or gossip.
The BSN program I attended allegedly had a problem. Just before the test was to be administered the professor and the dept chair came in and discussed the problem with the class -- that someone had gotten the test and that the test was going to be delayed. What I understand happened is the professor used the exact same test over and over for the same class semester after semester. Quite honestly,I am surpriseed that he was shocked that questions circulated--they never circulated my way. The problem could have been circumvented had the professor devised a new series of questions for each test and changed them again the next semester.
Most times my close friends and I would hear of the questions that the students knew about AFTER the test. I was not the only one who felt it was unfair to the students who who were in danger of flunking out.
This wasn't what you originally wrote nor what I responded to. Rather, this is what you wrote:
The reason I knew this study group had an unfair advantage over some of the poor students who actually WERE in danger of flunking out was BECAUSE of my connections. Anytime I asked insider friends for some of the questions that would be on the exam my connection was able to give me several questions that would be on the upcoming test verbatim.
and I believe that said enough. Getting questions and answers to upcoming tests certainly sounds like cheating to me; hence my original response. Apologies, it seems we don't agree what constitutes cheating and that's okay, but this doesn't mean I have twisted your words or took anything more from this than what you wrote.
Perhaps we could both agree that the OP should do his/her own work, ignore the cheating and finish school on his/her own merit.
Isn't quitting 'cuz others cheat like saying you're going to poke your eyes out because you don't like what you see... or something.
So, I teach Med-Surg. We found out our students have the test bank questions. (Heck, you can buy them on line for Pete's sake so I don't know why people are going to all these extremes to get last year's questions.) Consequently, I write my own questions. The down side is that when you have test items you refine over many semesters they are simply better, more discriminating items, fairer, and less ambiguous. But... oh well. No skin off my nose. This is the reality we are facing today.
Darlin' it's a fallen world out there. You let other people distort your plans in life and you're in for a long, tough haul and may never get where you want to go. You're being just a little too delicate here. What I hear you saying is that you refuse to excel in anything but a perfect world. Huh?
Most times my close friends and I would hear of the questions that the students knew about AFTER the test. I was not the only one who felt it was unfair to the students who who were in danger of flunking out.
Quote amarilla, "This wasn't what you originally wrote nor what I responded to. Rather, this is what you wrote:"
Um I fully explained that in my last post. I said I didn't realize I'd have to go into so much detail about a specific incident. You are the only one calling me to task. I don't post much due to time constraints so I didn't know I'd have to explain to you all details and that I did have an ethical leg to stand on. I also gave more details to another poster with an opposite view of my quickly posted story. - She said I might have 'sour grapes' due to not having 'connections' and many friends who could have fed me the questions. That's why I posted again giving her more details and explaining that I indeed could have gotten the questions in advance but was uncomfortable with what was going on. Also I honestly didn't need 'extra help' to make great grades.
I know I did the right thing because I didn't need help on tests. For the sake of the classmates with borderline grades, I wanted the instructor to put in the energy and writing new questions or best yet...I really wanted the senior student (wife of the classmate who was giving out verbatim questions to the class below her to stop. In my opinion the wife of my classmate who was a year ahead was the one who was unethical.
I aslo think it was wrong for the student/class validictorian to make an announcement to the whole class in front of the instructor saying that I had accused her of cheating. I made the instructor aware of something that was bothering several people but I never accused her or anyomne of cheating. I'm sure when knew that she was lying about me to make me look like some kind of creep. She should have just taken her lumps as nobody was punished and nothing changed.
I agree OP might have more to her story that he/she doesn't care to post publicly. I don't blame her for keeping the details private. In any event, imo med surg instructor 'jmqphd' came up with the best response.
Our instructors know that we get notes from upperclassmen, we don't get get tests. They reuse Powerpoints anyways, so not sure why sharing notes would be an issue. The material is out there either in your book or on Google, its not proprietary information. We are also allowed to record lectures.
If there is actual cheating going on, I do have a problem with that. I work hard for my grades and have helped anyone who has asked with tutoring and study guides. I went into nursing school worried about cliques and cattiness, but have been lucky enough to have a group of classmates who will do anything for each other and believe in sharing (ethical) resources.
I never felt nor said that the students cheated. It was very tacky for the valedictorian to stand in front of the class and state that I had accused her of cheating as that never happened.
That is really inappropriate and I would be upset as well.
Did I miss the part of the story that states that the faculty knows about it, and is doing nothing? Maybe I did.
If I did not miss it, then read on...
I can only speak for myself (and the colleagues I have respect for and work with) when I say that we DO not allow it. It is 100% impossible for us to control it, but (where I work) we go through painstaking measures to prevent it. While procoring yestarday, I had a male student who needed to use the restroom. I will not go into details about what I had to do, but lets just say he and I had a good laugh about it ater the fact (nothing illegal or inappropriate, I swear). I would like to think we do a decent job, but I am certain that there is still a breach of integrity and honesty going on (before, during and after, sadly). ANd it is NOT our fault!!I am not a cop, judge or a lawyer. My students know that I am a different person on test days. I hate the person I have to be on those days. There is enough tension in the air, and my "test police" attitude does not help, but I have no choice.
And who suffers from this? THE STUDENTS!! Lack of trust on our part leads to lack of a learning experience for you guys. Limited test reviews lead to studetns not knowing where they fell short.
This is hearsay, but what I was told is that when the NLN accredits (or reaccredits) a school they look at old exams. One way in which the NLN validates the legitimacy of the courses is that the same exam questions are used year to year. Therefore it is more than just the instructors "not bothering" to change the questions. Where I went to school, copies of the exam never left the nursing office (except of course to actualy administer the exam ). The definitely removes it from the "fair game" category.
Using the same exams is a blessing and a curse. Those schools (like mine) who recycle questions do it to ensure validity and reliability (if you go to school for nursing ed, you learn all this). If a question tests well (students pick all choices, the 'smarter' students get it right and the 'not so smart' students get it wring, it is a good question), it is used again. If it does not test well, it should be revised.
As far as "not bothering": there is no way that faculty could come up with hundreds of new questions each semester. If a question is 'good' with a good degree of difficulty, why fix what isn't broken? Trust me, there are penty of questions we need to fix. too easy: no good. Too hard, no good.
I can't imagine having to rewrite the entire exam over and over but have a good bank of questions to pull from and rotate out. I imagine it is a pain to write exam questions since you have students that will over-analyze them and question them and hound the instructors. I just don't think it would be smart to use the exact exam year after, it does give more room for cheating.
I can't imagine having to rewrite the entire exam over and over but have a good bank of questions to pull from and rotate out. I imagine it is a pain to write exam questions since you have students that will over-analyze them and question them and hound the instructors. I just don't think it would be smart to use the exact exam year after, it does give more room for cheating.
). The definitely removes it from the "fair game" category.
ugoumeh
25 Posts
Focus on your work. Stop worrying about others.