Student wants advice about professor from Nurse Educatiors

[GoodyNurse2b]

Hi. I'm hoping some of you might be able to shed some light on an issue my class is having with a particular professor.

I am enrolled in a second-degree BSN program. This semester I am taking pathophysiology with an instructor who is only 25, so she's pretty young and inexperienced. I am not turned off by her age. But I am disappointed that my school would have someone who is so inexperienced teaching this particular class. My program is filled with students who have Phds and Master's degrees in other scientific fields, and we are all feeling very overwhelmed and finding her teaching methods difficult to follow.

Here are some of our issues:

Power points are very minimal, so we are fiercely writing and writing in class. She talks very fast.

The other day in class she wanted to get through the lecture, so she asked us to hold all of our questions to the end. The lecture was on acid/base balance. Many of us got lost in the first ten minutes of lecture, so we were lost the rest of the class period.

Many of us feel that she is not facilitating our learning. This is not the type of class where you can just do a straight lecture without providing some sort of guidance. It would be helpful if she would provide us withe some sort of outline that we can take notes on during class in some way to guide our studying. The brief outlines that she provides are just not helpful.

In another instance, someone in the class asked her to write down what she was talking about on the board, and her response was, it was in the book. My classmate had to insist that she write it down.

None of us are out to get our instructor. We want to be there and learn this semester. I don't think that she is trying to be unreasonable, but I think there's a huge lack of experience that is detrimental to our learning.

We are afraid to approach her about it, because it seems that she gets very defensive easily.

How do you suggest we go about talking to our instructor? Should we? Any advice you can give?

[Whispera, MSN, RN]

I suggest that 2 of you go talk with her (two is enough so one brain will remember what the other doesn't, she won't be as intimidated as if everyone lands in her office, and the two can be witnesses for each other as to what is said). The concerned students could "elect" who is to go talk to her.

Tell her what the problems are:

As I see them, from what you wrote, they are:

1. she talks too fast

2. her handouts aren't adequate

3. she doesn't accept questions until the end

4. she's resistant to writing on the board

Tell her that! As a new, inexperienced instructor, she's harried. I suspect she makes each lecture during the few days before class, and it's tremendously time-consuming. She feels pressure to get through a topic during the time alloted in a class. But, she's not remembering that getting through things isn't helpful if people aren't understanding what she's saying. I bet she's nervous. I also bet she wants y'all to succeed and learn, and she wants to be an effective instructor.

Ask her to...

1. slow down both in speed of speaking and in drive to complete a topic

2. provide an outline with more detail (she could just do some variation of the notes she's speaking from, deleting the things she wants just for herself--I've done that and it works well)

3. accept questions as they jump into people's minds, even if the topic doesn't get finished that day

4. write important things on the board if they aren't on the outline--they could be on the outline though

5. anything else you want her to do

Are any in your group teachers? Most nursing instructors don't have education in teaching. Maybe some of you could help her!

By all means don't go to her boss about this unless you've done all you can to work with her to get what you need. You're her clients, though, paying her salary, and have a right to an education that is what you need it to be.

[llg, PhD, RN]

I'd be careful about how you approach her. Try to avoid putting her on the defensive by giving her a list of all her faults. Instead, engage her in a conversation directed at helping the students with THEIR problems. Ask for her help in helping you to learn.

For example: Instead of saying, "You talk too fast." Say, "Many of us are having trouble keeping up with your lectures. We can't write as fast as you can talk. Could you please provide an outline or some other handout that will help us keep up and take good notes?"

Instead of saying, "You need to write on the board." You could say, "It would really help the students if you could write some of the more difficult, complex material in a handout or on the board." etc.

BTW: I was teaching in an MSN program at 26. That was many years ago.

By engaging her as a partner to help solve some of the students' problems and enhance their learning, you might keep her from getting so defensive and backing away. She's young. She might not respond well if she feels you are being too critical ofher personally and are backing her into a corner. Cornered animals can lash out -- and you don't want that. You want her to move forward with you as a partner in your learning. You don't want her to feel and act like a trapped/wounded animal.

Accepting criticism well requires a maturity she might not have. So, don't make her feel as if she is being attacked. Show respect for her position and ask for help. You'll probably get more voluntary cooperation that way.

[GoodyNurse2b]

Whispera and LLG,

Thank you for your responses! I do agree that we must approach her rather carefully, but the fact that you both think it is an appropriate thing to do makes me feel much better! However, I do feel that no matter how careful we are, she is going to react negatively.

With my first degree, I wouldn't ever have even considered approaching a professor like this, but I unlike the first time around, I am the one paying for this education. For $1500/class, I expect a lot more.

[llg, PhD, RN]

Good luck! Let us know how it goes. She may not change completely overnight, but she might gradually improve given a little time, encouragement, and positive feedback.

Just keep saying to yourself ... "Show respect and ask for help. Don't accuse, criticize, or blame." Say that over and over to yourself as you talk with her.

[mommiof2kids]

Speaking from a "new" instructor's standpoint, I'd like to address your questions. First, power points are supposed to be minimal. The intent is to highlight the important areas and then fill in with lecture. That being said, it is difficult to keep up without some sort of outline. Is there a class syllabus or outline? Are there internet resources through the school? Most often instructors do lecture from the book. I know that I do. I often refer students to the book if they are unable to keep up with lecture. I'm not doing it to be rude but to help them understand that the lecture material is in the book.

I do agree with the other posts in that you should approach your instructor from the standpoint of the problem being yours and not hers. This often allows people to take a more positive approach to the situation rather than becoming defensive.

Perhaps the instructor doesn't realize how her teaching style is coming across and a gentle nudge in the right direction is all she needs. This may also be her first course that she is instructing. So, communicate your needs to her but also, cut her some slack.

[GoodyNurse2b]

Megan,

In this class, I think the issue with referring people to the book is that the class is pathophys and the book is rather complex. A lot of us need a good explanation of what is in the book to grasp the material. In any other type of non-science/nursing class I think book learning is easier.

There is an outline, but it basically lists the main topics, with no subheadings or key points.

The other thing that she does is she assigns whole chapters. In one breath she will say you are responsible for EVERYTHING in the chapter whether it is taught or not, and in another breath she will say focus on what we have gone over in class. It is very frustrating.

[llg, PhD, RN]

The other thing that she does is she assigns whole chapters. In one breath she will say you are responsible for EVERYTHING in the chapter whether it is taught or not, and in another breath she will say focus on what we have gone over in class. It is very frustrating.

I tell my classes that, too. They ARE responsible for the whole chapter -- and will pick an ocassional test question out of the text that I did not emphasize in class. However, most of the test questions will be based on material I cover in lecture -- because I try to cover the most important material in class and I try to have my test questions emphasize the most important material. But that doesn't mean that the students do not have to read the book. You can probably pass my course only knowing the material I cover in class -- but to get an "A," you need to know what is in both the lecture and the book. That's perfectly reasonable.

[mommiof2kids]

Megan,

In this class, I think the issue with referring people to the book is that the class is pathophys and the book is rather complex. A lot of us need a good explanation of what is in the book to grasp the material. In any other type of non-science/nursing class I think book learning is easier.

There is an outline, but it basically lists the main topics, with no subheadings or key points.

The other thing that she does is she assigns whole chapters. In one breath she will say you are responsible for EVERYTHING in the chapter whether it is taught or not, and in another breath she will say focus on what we have gone over in class. It is very frustrating.

Goody Nurse,

Please don't take my comments as rude or insensitive. This is just my opinion. I'm wondering if perhaps the class is expecting all of the information to be handed to them? I know that I experience this with the students in my classes. As an instructor this is very frustrating. I provide my students with a very detailed outline, syllabus, course calendar in addition to their text books. All of these additional "niceties" are a supplement to the text. The lectures come straight from the text. The exams are based on the text.

If you are having difficulty keeping up with the speed of the lecture request permission to tape record the lecture. Most instructors do not have an issue with this. I have several students that tape my lectures.

In regards to being referred back to the book. My suggestion is to listen to the lecture. Review the information in the book after lecture. Then if you still are not able to understand a concept ask the instructor.

As for being responsible for learning the entire chapter...this is college. There is a huge amount of information that you will be required to learn and understand. This expectation will continue throughout your nursing program. The rationale for this is to prepare you for your nursing boards. Your instructors want you to be successful!

My advice to you, if it makes you feel better, express your concerns to your instructor. However, you would probably be better served by reading the chapter ahead of class and preparing your own outline. Not only will you have a better understanding of the topic being covered but you will also be able to keep up with the lecture. It would probably help you to study with a group of people as well. Most of us survive nursing school with study groups.

Good luck to you!

[GoodyNurse2b]

Megan,

I do not take your post as you being rude or insensitive AT ALL. You do make valid points. I take full responsibility of my own learning, but I do feel that the instructor has the responsibility of presenting the material in an organized fashion so that it is

a) digestible

and

b) topics presented in class form a foundation for the independent learning students must do on their own to understand the topic.

If that's not the case- THEN THERE IS NO POINT IN GOING TO CLASS!

Unfortunately I don't think that's happening in my class. As I stated above, I have two classmates with doctorate degrees in other fields and several classmates have master's degrees. Even they are frustrated. I think they serve as a good gauge since they are very used to independent, intense learning. This is a second-degree program, and we are all educated and highly-motivated.

I'm not trying to start a heated discussion. I appreciate all the responses I've received.

[RNPATL, DNP, RN]

I will agree with several of the other posts. I think I would add that there needs to be student engagement in the class. While I agree that this is college and the material needs to be learned, by the students in the class, I do believe that there is a need to help make the material somewhat interesting and provide detailed information on the concepts (such as acid/base) that can be difficult to conceptualize.

You mention several times that you have a couple class members that have previous degrees at the masters and doctoral level. This is really irrelevant. Nursing school is unlike any other education you will receive at any point in your life. You are being prepared to take a national licensure examination that covers an amazing amount of information. In addition, the test is designed to target your weakness. Understanding the material for each class is the total responsibility of the studnet. Mostly because the student will be the one taking the NCLEX - not the instructor.

I think my overall suggestion would be to make sure you are reading the chapters prior to your lecture. Highlight the concepts that you do not understand so you can target these in class with questions. If the instructor does not proviede you with the information necessary in class to understand the concept, make an appointment with her to go over the concepts that are difficult.

I think meeting with her and telling her that her lectures are to fast will do little to solve the issue. Remember - she is required to cover a lot of material in a short semester.

Best wishes and I hope it all works out for you.

[AOx1]

Have you considered a program like microsoft one note or a livescribe pen? There are many threads on this site about both. You can record (with permission) the lecture, and fill in your notes later with the fine points. If you know you will be covering acid base balance, for example, I would summarize the chapter in my own words before coming to class. You could then use class time to gain further information.

I agree, you can ask for these things, but a few things make me curious- you mention that she states it is in the book. Have you read the readings prior to class?

Also, consider other resources such as Pathophysiology made incredibly easy and Pathophysiology made incredibly visual. Both provide good basic summaries.