Are online ANP degrees destroying our credibility?

Nursing Students NP Students

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I was talking to a private practice doctor about an opening in his practice. Currently, I am employed by the hospital. He told me that they will only consider PA's due to having more of a hard science based training and longer residency. I have heard this before and brushed it off. Especially, considering that would only be of factor for new grads possibly. I brought this up and he gave me a second rejection with a whole new excuse. His practice as a whole were considering hiring NPs until a PA brought up you can get your degree online. He stated they can not take our education seriously with such low standards. UUUURRRGGGHH. I didn't really know what to say. Mostly due to not expecting that response. Either way he is not someone I would want to work for with that attitude. I want to know what other people's thoughts are regarding the online programs? Will it hurt our profession and the quality of our reputation?

Specializes in Transgender Medicine.
So I've glanced through my plan of study and it looks like I'll have all of the classes you talked about before I start my clinical portion! So I have some questions about how they've changed the curriculum to doctoral level classes? I have like 4 600 level classes...they weren't on the course of study that was on the website. Makes me nervous!!!!!!

Asue, don't worry. The classes for the MSN portion are still the same classes. They just changed the numbering around to reflect/denote the path to a higher education. The DNP students take the same courses as us in the MSN program, but they continue on further after we graduate. No sweat. It's still the same stuff as before. :)

Specializes in Emergency Dept, ICU.

The majority of our surgeons will only hire PAs for thier practice, these staff members also move more easily into the OR without additional certification, where as nurses must obtain thier first assist cert.

mmutk

That is generally true for PAs in any area of specialty. They can cross disciplines without liability provided they get adequate training. Sometimes NPs can do the same depending on their specialties as is the case many times with FNPs. That is medicine flexing its muscles and its bogus. However, nurses, trying to be cautious and careful have made the profession unnecessarily taxing......:yawn: :nurse:

Specializes in primary care, holistic health, integrated medicine.

I haven't read ALL of the responses to this question... but my initial response would be ABSOLUTELY. There is a lot to be said for having live, knowledgable instructors breathing down your neck, putting you under the gun, challenging you, teaching you how to deal with multiple types of personalities and personality disorders ;) ... etc, etc. This, I believe, is especially true for new RN grads who are "accepted" into proprietary NP programs, online. HOWEVER, I also believe that there are those who are extremely self-directed and who may be perfectly adept to online education, because they will challenge themselves.

I worked with an RN who had just graduated from an online FNP program, and she had NO earthly idea how to listen to heart sounds, where S1 was heard, which valves she was listening to, or how to use an otoscope safely. And this was on a telemetry unit. Honestly, it was not her fault. No one had ever shown her, or questioned her ability in real life. She had been an RN for only two years and now had graduated as an FNP. What does that say about on line education?

Then, I have also run into some very, very excellent NPs who graduated from online programs, who realized what they did not know and FOUND out, even if it meant humbling themselves to ask others whom they trusted to tell them the truth, even if that truth is "I don't know".

The other factor involved here is the preceptors that the online students use. There are those preceptors who will take on this role, only to have another "warm body" in their office practice. There are also those who truly love teaching and value the education of the future generation of providers. So it depends.

For many of the online schools, the goal is to take in as many as possible future NPs ($$$$$) and pump out as many as possible who can pass the WRITTEN boards. The best NPs are those who can question the current sources, realizing that there is a ton of information that is NOT known, and be able to say "I don't know" (but find out). Learning styles are important, and many, many RN students who have been forced into online programs will tell you that they are "hands on" learners. Does this change as the level of education increases? Finally, I think that it is VERY important that those who have masters degrees can speak and write (communicate) effectively and succinctly, and use English, or whatever language they speak, properly.

Life experience also counts. So there is no right answer to this question. It truly all depends on the person (NP).

God, I gotta just say- yeah, grad school was intense both physically and academically. However, no amount of training from either a piddly online degree mill or fancy prestigious university, could have prepared me for my first job.

Hate to say it guys, but it really doesnt matter where you went to school. Your first clinical position will kick your ass and provide you with the best learning experience possible.

I really hate how we as a profession feel the need to compare and prove ourselves to the medical community. Doctors have no idea what our programs offer, or what sort of training we come quipped with. They hardly know the difference between a CNA vs a RN, vs NP (trust me, I married one of these oblivious dudes)

Here is my point: NPs are trained on the job...period. Our academic preparation is just one of the many hoops we have to jump through. The doctor I work for essentially taught me everything, and he certainly doesnt care about the prestige of my alma mater. He cares about the good clinical judgement I exercise, and the care I exhibit towards patient and their family members. Bottom line, do no harm and dont get sued! My graduate program taught me how to write a damn good thesis, work well in groups, develop PP presentations, network, and perform BASIC NP skills. It was my obscure clinical rotations, where I learned anything of real value.

Stop pecking eachother to death on a moot point

Specializes in Psychiatric Nursing.

Agree with above post!! The "debate" btwn online and no -online is silly. I have always learned on the job from patients with someone, usually a physician, to ask questions and learn.. Online is the future because it is cheaper... I actually prefer b&m classes for the mentoring, relationships, in-person learning etc but now I do most of my learning on-line because of the convenience and access to knowledge. I do take in person classes when I can because I like them..

Specializes in ..

Like the post. As I have moved on through my hybrid program, I have realized that I like the format....some online, some in person. It is really important to choose the best format that fits your learning style. I imagine that poor results have come from a person choosing online education but needing in person lectures to learn and vice versa.

What I would really love to see happen is for someone to develop a lecture dvd series for NP's to cover patho to assessment to differential diagnoses. That way we would have a resource to go to for audio/visual learners and to supplement. Take a book like Dunphy's Primary care and do a video form of it. Do it for a reasonable price and you've got a buyer here!

OK,so your years of prior RN experience does not matter? A PA can have an undergrad of basketweaving and then obtain a masters in two yrs... I cant believe he said that..Any rate just look for another opportunity that just meant that DR. wouldnt be an individual you wanted to work with.

PS.no disrespect to PA's.

Specializes in Nursing Education, CVICU, Float Pool.

To me it seems self-evident that online NP programs, especially when the nurses have experience going into the program, are successful. Think of how many online NP programs there were in 2009 and think how many more there are now!

Specializes in ER and family advanced nursing practice.
I haven't read ALL of the responses to this question... but my initial response would be ABSOLUTELY. There is a lot to be said for having live, knowledgable instructors breathing down your neck, putting you under the gun, challenging you, teaching you how to deal with multiple types of personalities and personality disorders ;) ... etc, etc. This, I believe, is especially true for new RN grads who are "accepted" into proprietary NP programs, online. HOWEVER, I also believe that there are those who are extremely self-directed and who may be perfectly adept to online education, because they will challenge themselves.

Ouch. My program was "online". My instructors were knowledgeable, challenged me, put me under the gun and all that stuff. But then...how can that be? Ironically, my wife is in a brick and mortar program and she seems to, and indeed has to, be self directed. But again, how can that be?

I worked with an RN who had just graduated from an online FNP program, and she had NO earthly idea how to listen to heart sounds, where S1 was heard, which valves she was listening to, or how to use an otoscope safely. And this was on a telemetry unit. Honestly, it was not her fault. No one had ever shown her, or questioned her ability in real life. She had been an RN for only two years and now had graduated as an FNP. What does that say about on line education?

It says nothing. Zero. Zip. Nada. Besides my DNP, I have a BSN and MSN. You know what the "S" stands for? Science. And science teaches us the follies of anecdotes being passed off as evidence of something. So it is a real shame to see people making generalizations that are meaningless and without any underpinnings of science or scientific method. Show me a program, any program, without faults, without room for improvement, or whose graduates are all masters of heart tones.

The other factor involved here is the preceptors that the online students use. There are those preceptors who will take on this role, only to have another "warm body" in their office practice. There are also those who truly love teaching and value the education of the future generation of providers. So it depends.

Depends on what? Are you suggesting that the quality of preceptors or their motivations are influenced by the program's delivery method? In many cases the process for NP students to find preceptors is the same regardless of their school being online, hybrid, or strictly traditional. I did all of my clinical rotations in Atlanta side by side with NP students from other schools. We ALL had to find our own preceptors. All of our preceptors took students from multiple schools that used multiple formats.

Again, these posters that are making all of these harsh conclusions without ANY evidence whatsoever would be laughable if they weren't so harsh and unfounded. You have numbers to back up what you say? Then post them, please. Otherwise, don't accuse online programs of lacking academic rigor while you clearly are not applying any scientific process at all.

Ivan

Specializes in ER.

Ivan, I don't know that we can measure every variable at play here but we can all recall our experiences and pick up on the subtlety of the market. I also work in Atlanta and frankly, the pas around here are way better than the nps. Every time I have worked with a midlevel, I have preferred the pa and the powers that hire? They seem to be catching on to that and hiring nps.Now maybe you could sell me a story about how all np programs need to increase their academic rigor but in the meantime, having taken online classes, the issue remains clear to me: it's easier to succeed in online environments and thus, fewer people are weeded out of the programs.

Specializes in ER and family advanced nursing practice.

You say the PAs are "way" better than the NPs. Please quantify. What standards are you applying? What outcomes are you measuring? If the best articulation you have is "way", that will simply not suffice. Measure "every" variable? How about just one?

Ivan, I don't know that we can measure every variable at play here but we can all recall our experiences and pick up on the subtlety of the market. I also work in Atlanta and frankly, the pas around here are way better than the nps. Every time I have worked with a midlevel, I have preferred the pa and the powers that hire? They seem to be catching on to that and hiring nps.Now maybe you could sell me a story about how all np programs need to increase their academic rigor but in the meantime, having taken online classes, the issue remains clear to me: it's easier to succeed in online environments and thus, fewer people are weeded out of the programs.
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