"Loan payments will be capped at 10 percent of a student’s disposable income (it’s currently 15 percent) and any debt remaining after 20 years will be forgiven (the current threshold is 25). For public servants – including teachers, nurses, or members of the armed forces – that cap is 10 years."
Now, I have every intention of paying back every penny I am borrowing for school, but I found this interesting.
More generally, the reform cuts out the middle man banks in the student loan process, lending the money directly from the government. I don't think there is expected to be much difference noticeable to students but, in general, I approve for a couple reasons:
1. although there are no credit restrictions on student loans, those of us with significant bruising might have a better experience with the fed than with for-profit lending institutions, and
2. after TARP, I am having a harder and harder time feeling bad for banks generally.
Specializes in Peds, Med-Surg, Disaster Nsg, Parish Nsg.
Many posts have strayed from the topic of the thread, and some are on the verge of personal attacks. We try to maintain a flame-free atmosphere on the site. You are free to disagree, but please do it in a respectful manner, without derailing the thread.
Now.......back to the discussion about the Student Loan Reform.
I started working at the age of 15 in a daycare center everyday after school; nothing substantial there. Then went to work for a family friend at 17; again nothing too substantial. Graduated high school in 99 and started working at a communications powerhouse in 2000. Worked there for 3 years until I was laid off (I'm sorry, entirely different than fired) received a very nice severance package, invested some, saved some. Went straight back to work for a state agency in a job I didnt love but paid the bills...and I dont know where you're from but scrub tech is a 9 month program here. Quit the state job tried the scrub tech thing hoping it would speed my path into nursing...realized very soon after clinicals and quitting my state job that it wasn't for me. Went back to work for a large company, 2 years, again laid off...again, a nice severance (O and PS I've been investing in my 401k and rolling it over since 2000 and every company I worked for matched and vested pretty quickly) again went straight back to work (yes, through my pregnancy with my 3 year old) got another job with another company worked there a year...got laid off, yup you guessed it..another severance....funny thing is this company hired me right back (into another division) and I didn't miss a beat worked through my pregnancy with my 1 year old...closure of another department resulted in yet another lay off (after my maternity leave) and yes, another severance. At which point I decided to go back to school to get the nursing degree that I had wanted since my father was diagnosed with brain cancer when I was 14 and in and out of hospitals all the time until he passed Jan 29th of this year. And another tidbit for you, I don't pay rent, since my father had gone into a nursing home just before my divorce my mother wanted me to stay with her (although I do pay her a little to help offset the loss of my fathers income its nothing compared to what renting a 4 bedroom house would cost) I didn't "lose" my house in my divorce, I didnt fight for it. There was only a mediator no lawyers...the fact was the house was in HIS hometown where HIS family lived and was an hour from where I wanted to be, so I got the savings account, he got the house. Yes, sometimes I miss my house and can't believe he wanted to keep it vs having the kids and I stay there. Especially when that means his kids are now an hour away and out of the only house they had ever known. But there are other houses and I'm not concerned with the fact that he has to drive an hour 1 way to see his children, his choice. I hope this helps to clear up any confusion for you. I haven't been to the doctor once since I haven't had health insurance (I quit paying my COBRA, in September and moved my kids to a private carrier)..did have to go to the dentist though in November and I paid up front. I hope this helps to clear up your "timeline" for you. And I sincerely hope that trying to insinuate that I have anything to lie about makes you feel better about your debating skills. You're quite good at it, no need for personal attacks.
It's not a personal attack. You asserted 1) That you don't take "hand outs" and 2) That you don't believe HCR could possibly benefit you personally (and insinuated that you are one of many in this respect) as justifications for you position against it. If you're going to use your personal life to support your position in a debate, then you should expect it to be scrutinized. It's about accountability. Something that you've mentioned you believe others should also show, in particular, when it comes to the topic we're discussing.
What you say might be true. Personally, I still have a hard time believing it. It doesn't seem likely...for one, that you'd be hired, pregnant and fresh out of high school, by a "communications powerhouse" with no credentials to your name. But I suppose anything is possible. I'll probably never know for certain.
As to where I got the notion that you're chiefly concerned with how the bill will benefit you personally, it came from something you said with regard to the bill:
I'm under no illusions that some people cannot afford their healthcare be it health insurance or the services needed. It doesn't benefit me financially, period.
So, on with the show...What is your response to elkpark's post regarding health insurance exchanges?
Many posts have strayed from the topic of the thread, and some are on the verge of personal attacks. We try to maintain a flame-free atmosphere on the site. You are free to disagree, but please do it in a respectful manner, without derailing the thread.
Now.......back to the discussion about the Student Loan Reform.
I've already replied to elkpark number 1...number 2 I love how you twist things that have been said to paint someone else in a negative light. I happened to be 8 months pregnant when I graduated high school btw so my son was already walking by the time I got my position...which I undoubtably got through the affiliation of my parents friends, but it gave me a firm foundation for the next 10 years.
Second the statement that you quoted was in regards to me carrying health insurance on MYSELF...no, it doesn't benefit me financially at this point. Sorry, your argument is invalid.
Your insinuations and innuendos have begun to wear on my nerves. I haven't once posted about you stating that you don't get child support or that you have to depend on others during financial downturns. I haven't asked whether you carry health insurance...information that I offer is as it pertains to my thinking process hoping that you may see why Im on the train of thought that I am in that moment....and my thinking process as far as STUDENT LOAN REFORM...is that it is another way for the government to take back/take over/completely control yet another aspect of our economy in the same way it has done the banks, auto industries, and now health insurance companies. I don't know all the answers like you do, I do not know everything, I do not care to squabble over this when there is no hope for a reconciliation of ideas or any gainful insight for either of us to be had. Like I said YESTERDAY, I agree to disagree with you. No harm, no foul, game over, no problems. I hope you have a wonderful easter with your baby. I hope you are blessed beyond belief both financially and otherwise. Good luck with your schooling, join the debate club because you rock at it! :)
O...and one more little tidbid into my life since you're intent on the fact that I'm fabricating the details I have lived is when my father was diagnosed with brain cancer 15 years ago he did NOT have health insurance and I watched as my parents went from owning their own very lucrative business to having no savings no retirement and no way out of the ever mounting debt the numerous brain surgeries and hospitalizations caused. I watched my mother rejoin the workforce after 20 years out so that she could get my father covered on a group health insurance plan after depleting every asset they had. I made my decisions to save and invest determined to never be in their shoes. Unarguably I may be at risk of ending up there since I, myself, have decided to forego health insurance at this point...as I said previously, its a gamble, one I am willing to take for the time being, but not for long. I hope knowing my family's 15 year tragedy helps you to understand why I made the decisions that I did regarding my finances and why I am now in the situation that I am in. And I sincerely meant that I hope you find yourself blessed enough to never have to endure more than what you are now. Being a single parent is tough and I can't imagine doing it without the support of the father, financially or otherwise (I have no clue as to your personal situation re your child). I applaud you, it takes a strong woman to be determined enough to attempt NS as a single mother. It's a daunting task and I have no doubts that you will make it....if you are ever my nurse I hope that you are on my side helping to fight my battles! Good luck! :)
I've already replied to elkpark number 1...number 2 I love how you twist things that have been said to paint someone else in a negative light. I happened to be 8 months pregnant when I graduated high school btw so my son was already walking by the time I got my position...which I undoubtably got through the affiliation of my parents friends, but it gave me a firm foundation for the next 10 years.
Second the statement that you quoted was in regards to me carrying health insurance on MYSELF...no, it doesn't benefit me financially at this point. Sorry, your argument is invalid.
Your insinuations and innuendos have begun to wear on my nerves. I haven't once posted about you stating that you don't get child support or that you have to depend on others during financial downturns. I haven't asked whether you carry health insurance...information that I offer is as it pertains to my thinking process hoping that you may see why Im on the train of thought that I am in that moment....and my thinking process as far as STUDENT LOAN REFORM...is that it is another way for the government to take back/take over/completely control yet another aspect of our economy in the same way it has done the banks, auto industries, and now health insurance companies. I don't know all the answers like you do, I do not know everything, I do not care to squabble over this when there is no hope for a reconciliation of ideas or any gainful insight for either of us to be had. Like I said YESTERDAY, I agree to disagree with you. No harm, no foul, game over, no problems. I hope you have a wonderful easter with your baby. I hope you are blessed beyond belief both financially and otherwise. Good luck with your schooling, join the debate club because you rock at it! :)
Didn't see your response to elkpark, as I was writing a response when it was posted. I see it now.
I now understand why you are opposed to healthcare reform. It can be difficult for people who have never known true hardship to empathize with those who have. The beauty of this bill though, is that should you ever know true hardship and need a healthcare solution where it cannot be found in some other place, it may make a real difference in your life.
The comment about not carrying health insurance for yourself, I thought, was tied into your concern about the idea of being fined because of it, as the sentence following that comment suggests:
I'm under no illusions that some people cannot afford their healthcare be it health insurance or the services needed. It doesn't benefit me financially, period. And I believe that I am entitled that choice without the government mandating otherwise.
If I somehow got that twisted, I don't see how. Seems pretty cut and dried to me.
I didn't state that I don't get child support. What I said was that I don't get it with enough regularity for it to make an impact on my expenditures. I have had to turn to others in times of financial downfall. Like you, I have turned to my family. I work, but paying for childcare is a struggle without consistent child support, so my mom eases the cost somewhat by providing child care on a part time basis. Yes, I have health insurance for myself and my son. But that isn't to say that there aren't plenty of women who have had to turn to government assistance, in some form or another, during times of great financial strife. I just don't see that necessity as morally reprehensible.
We're all entitled to our opinions on politics. But I think that in discussions about topics that affect such a large number of people, as this topic does, it is important that those opinions be well informed. You entered into this discussion misinformed about some important details, asked for ideas about what you saw as a substantial interest savings in student loans offered by private lenders compared to the federal program, and then launched a discussion about healthcare reform - about which, you also displayed that you were misinformed in regards to some important details. My intention throughout this discussion was to inform, but also to encourage you to consider information and conjecture from the other side of the debate before forming an opinion. Because in light of what's happening across the nation with the passage of the healthcare bill, it troubles me personally to see how many people are reacting to the passage (some violently) on the basis of gross misinformation. I don't want to see that misinformation and blind reactionary thinking spread.
Maybe in leu of debate club (and nursing) I ought to consider law school instead.
No harm intended on my end either. Good luck to you too and God bless.
The necessity of getting government assitance is not morally reprehensible. When I stated that I don't want to have to take a handout in no way meant that I felt it was wrong for people to do so. I have simply made the choice when prioritizing my own personal finances to choose not to spend in the area of my own health insurance at this point and I feel that is my personal choice. If something catastrophic occurs its on me and I will have no one to blame but myself. I have been in hardships and am in every way empathetic to those who truly cannot afford health insurance or have been limited due to preexisting conditions, I have seen that first hand, no fun at all. My issue when bringing up the HCR was that I didnt see the correlation between student loan reform and HCR and was unsure as to why it was included in the bill...what you said about appropriate funding made sense. Point conceded, I do however still believe that government is slowly but surely taking over every aspect of our lives and I do not like that idea. However; I feel that the points I've made are valid and they should concern every American citizen and if we don't ask the tough questions (even if others believe they are a "moot point") and if we all just go with the flow and trust our government to have our best interests at heart then we will eventually be overrun with legislation and mandates. As stated, I am attempting to discern the HCR bill myself to see if the information I am getting is wrong. Again, I'm not far right nor far left nor anywhere in between, I just want whats best for the future of my children. I want their lives to be so much better than mine without worrying about well intentioned laws that have the reverse effect. I still don't agree with the HCR/Student loan reform even after this 2 day debate!! LOL. But, in all honesty, I havent met anyone who APPROVED of it until this post, so its helped to open my eyes that the entire US population isn't feeling the same way I am and that gives me hope because I have been wrong (especially concerning politics) once or twice in my day :) that was a joke.
And yes, I concur, you should definitely consider law school vs nursing!!!
This easter bunny is off to bed so no more allnurses!
I have not heard that any person who gets insurance through their employer is exempt from these laws, that does make me feel better about it. I am attempting to read the dang bill but its long and some of it might as well be in a foreign language. I do hope you are correct, it gives me slightly more confidence in this whole situation. Thanks for the info!
They're not exempt from the law -- they just don't qualify to participate in the exchanges, which are being set up specifically to help those who aren't getting insurance through an employer. The exchanges are just one small piece of the overall plan/package. No one is "exempt from the law." The specific provisons of the law, though, affect different people different ways, depending on where they're starting from (with or without insurance provided through an employer).
The necessity of getting government assitance is not morally reprehensible. When I stated that I don't want to have to take a handout in no way meant that I felt it was wrong for people to do so. I have simply made the choice when prioritizing my own personal finances to choose not to spend in the area of my own health insurance at this point and I feel that is my personal choice. If something catastrophic occurs its on me and I will have no one to blame but myself. I have been in hardships and am in every way empathetic to those who truly cannot afford health insurance or have been limited due to preexisting conditions, I have seen that first hand, no fun at all. My issue when bringing up the HCR was that I didnt see the correlation between student loan reform and HCR and was unsure as to why it was included in the bill...what you said about appropriate funding made sense. Point conceded, I do however still believe that government is slowly but surely taking over every aspect of our lives and I do not like that idea. However; I feel that the points I've made are valid and they should concern every American citizen and if we don't ask the tough questions (even if others believe they are a "moot point") and if we all just go with the flow and trust our government to have our best interests at heart then we will eventually be overrun with legislation and mandates. As stated, I am attempting to discern the HCR bill myself to see if the information I am getting is wrong. Again, I'm not far right nor far left nor anywhere in between, I just want whats best for the future of my children. I want their lives to be so much better than mine without worrying about well intentioned laws that have the reverse effect. I still don't agree with the HCR/Student loan reform even after this 2 day debate!! LOL. But, in all honesty, I havent met anyone who APPROVED of it until this post, so its helped to open my eyes that the entire US population isn't feeling the same way I am and that gives me hope because I have been wrong (especially concerning politics) once or twice in my day :) that was a joke.
And yes, I concur, you should definitely consider law school vs nursing!!!
This easter bunny is off to bed so no more allnurses!
You have been incredibly fortunate. You have been gainfully employed since you left high school. The majority of us have to earn credentials in order to be so gainfully employed because we don't have the kind of family contacts that you have. It's much easier to be smart with your dollars when you actually have dollars. Not everybody gets severance pay or matched retirement funds. I've been working since I was 14 and I didn't see a 401k until age 25, after I'd earned a bachelors degree.
There are plenty of people who get fired from their jobs, everyday, without being offered anything but directions to the door. A lot of those people live hand to mouth or paycheck to paycheck to begin with. Most of us have to start at the bottom, not at the top. Be gracious for the gifts you have received. Reserve your judgment of those who have not received such gifts and consider the possibility that it isn't as easy as you think - you've never been there.
"The exchanges are just one small piece of the overall plan/package."
I think the exchangees are going to be a big deal because very plan not grandfathered in must be offered through the exchange and anyone who wants that plan is guarenteed to get it. The grandfathered in will gradually die out as people change jobs or their needs/circumstances change.
"The exchanges are just one small piece of the overall plan/package."
I think the exchangees are going to be a big deal because very plan not grandfathered in must be offered through the exchange and anyone who wants that plan is guarenteed to get it. The grandfathered in will gradually die out as people change jobs or their needs/circumstances change.
I did not mean to sound dismissive about the exchanges -- I was just trying to get my point across to Mommaof3, who seems to believe that the exchanges are the new program, and communicate that there is a lot more in the law than just the exchanges, which, at least at first, will affect only a comparatively small number of people. I agree completely that they are a big, important step for people who are struggling to find good coverage at an affordable price, and I hope that they will be successful in meeting that need.
As a current nursing student, I suppose on the surface of this I have something to gain. But I STRONGLY oppose it on several levels. I believe you have to look at the big picture.
First of all, thousands of private sector jobs are being eliminated. Some governmental jobs will be created. Less jobs, and more tax dollars being spent. Add to that the fact that the government will now be laying out this money up front as opposed to private entities. Even more tax implications.
Second, our federal government is broke. Massive spending cuts are inevitable - regardless of what party is in power. Will that effect us as nursing students? I don't know. But the question should certainly be considered.
Third, and I believe this to be the most important point, is ever increasing government intrusion into personal lives. They now completely control health care. One must question why the change in student loans was buried in the bowels of the health care bill. Government can now pick and choose who will be eligible to receive financial assistance to enter the medical field. They already control what skills are deemed important in the educational process. I think that should be dictated by the medical community. In 2014 they will control on an even higher level what care will be administered in any given situation.
Repeating for emphasis: government has now gained control of the entire medical care delivery process.
To me, that's scary.
And by the way, to anybody that might be wondering, no, I'm not a liberal democrat.
tnbutterfly - Mary, BSN
83 Articles; 5,923 Posts
Many posts have strayed from the topic of the thread, and some are on the verge of personal attacks. We try to maintain a flame-free atmosphere on the site. You are free to disagree, but please do it in a respectful manner, without derailing the thread.
Now.......back to the discussion about the Student Loan Reform.