Staff RN's earn more than Nurse Manager?!

Katnip, RN · Jun 10, 2008

That's too bad that they make you work holidays....
I'm pretty sure I didn't see any management other than the house supervisor for a few shifts around Christmas, New Year's, Easter, Memorial Day, July 4th, Labor Day, MLK Jr Day and Thanksgiving. Not to mention Mother's Day, Valentine's Day, etc....
Sorry if I sound cynical. I went from an excellent Magnet facility with one manager who cared to a huge hospital with 6 backstabbing managers.
Case in point: I made sure when I was hired I could work primarily weekends to accommodate school. He said fine. We are required to work 26 weekends a year. So I requested that I work only one weekend this month, as I am off school, and have already put in around 18 weekends. (1 measly weekend off) He says, "oh no.... you made a special request to work those weekends, and I did you a favor by allowing you to work extra weekends. Those don't count. You still need to work your 2 weekends a month."
You just wait and see if I stay a second longer than I need to in this job.....

I don't blame you a bit for that. Always, always get things in writing. We're having difficulty here with things like that. But in our case, the staff just sort of changed their schedules to accomodate their own needs, while leaving huge gaps in the schedule where none should be. This went on for years before I started here, now it's our job to straighten out the mess. And it is a mess. I need two nurses per shift. Sometimes I get 6, and other days none. And people are screaming about it because it's been their way for so long.

But I do digress. I love the staff on my unit. Most are extremely responsible and competent. A few need some improvement. But as a manager, I really do make less than I did before. And didn't know when I was hired as manager that I'd have to work holidays. Heck I have to give 30 days notice if I want time off. That was fun when my washing machine broke.

You can bet, if I don't go back to bedside and look for another place, I know what questions to ask up front.

TammyCNOR · Oct 9, 2010

I agree with everyone else! I get paid for 8 hours and work 10-12. I am Clinical Manager in the OR at an outpatient surgery center. Problem being no call or 2nd shift. I have 10 hr nurses, but if cases run late or have extra rooms running, I am always the one that gets to stay......FOR FREE!!! I always joke about "job security" but actually no one is dumb enough to get suckered into this. :twocents:

PMFB-RN, RN · Oct 9, 2010

I was once asked by a staff nurse on a Friday afternoon if I would come in on Saturday and cover a shift. I explained that if I did, I would receive NO PAY for the shift and asked her how many time she came in and worked a shift for free. She was a friend and this was a friendly conversation -- not as "snippy" as it might sound. She simply hadn't realized what she was asking me to do and that her expectation that the leadership team pick up shifts on the weekend was unreasonable.

*** Expecting members of the leadership team to cover weekend is perfectly reasonable. It is their job to hire and train an adequate number of RNs to staff the unit. If they fail in their job then I fully expect them to cover for their failures.

PMFB-RN, RN · Oct 9, 2010

I went from a poorly run large Magnet hospital where I NEVER saw managers working anything other than Mon-Fri 0700-1530. If we didn't have enough staff in the ICU they didn't care. We just went on divert status (where where the only trauma center for a huge area) or worked short (dangerous given the unstable nature of our patients). Now I work in a smaller (300 bed) well run hospital where in a pinch the managers will cover if they need too. However as we are well staffed they seldom have to. I think their having to cover when short motivates them to make sure the unit is well staffed.

llg, PhD, RN · Oct 9, 2010

*** Expecting members of the leadership team to cover weekend is perfectly reasonable. It is their job to hire and train an adequate number of RNs to staff the unit. If they fail in their job then I fully expect them to cover for their failures.

The fact that the unit was looking for a little help over the weekend had nothing to do with any failures on my part. I was the unit CNS at the time and not responsible for the schedule, FTE budget, etc. It's unfair to assume that every time staff calls out sick, a person on the leadership team should cover that shift for free. Real life is more complex than that.

As I said in my original post (in 2008) ... once the staff nurse realized the true situation, she agreed that her expectation of me was unreasonable. She then had a full view of the situation and could see that her original assessment of the situation had been overly simplistic.

For example, this staff was almost never floated to other units when they were short because they hated it so much and did not feel competent in other units. They had agreed to cover their own sick calls in exchange for not being floated when they had extra staff.

PMFB-RN, RN · Oct 9, 2010

The fact that the unit was looking for a little help over the weekend had nothing to do with any failures on my part.

*** I know. I wasn't talking about you or making and comments about your particular situation. I was speaking generally. Had I been referring to you personally I would have used words like "you" rather than the broader "management".

I was the unit CNS at the time and not responsible for the schedule, FTE budget, etc. It's unfair to assume that every time staff calls out sick, a person on the leadership team should cover that shift for free. Real life is more complex than that.

*** Once again you have taken a broad general statement and are pretending it was about you personally. that is not the case.

llg, PhD, RN · Oct 10, 2010

The fact that the unit was looking for a little help over the weekend had nothing to do with any failures on my part.
*** I know. I wasn't talking about you or making and comments about your particular situation. I was speaking generally. Had I been referring to you personally I would have used words like "you" rather than the broader "management".
I was the unit CNS at the time and not responsible for the schedule, FTE budget, etc. It's unfair to assume that every time staff calls out sick, a person on the leadership team should cover that shift for free. Real life is more complex than that.
*** Once again you have taken a broad general statement and are pretending it was about you personally. that is not the case.

Then you shouldn't have quoted me in your post. By putting your comments directly below your quote of me, you implied that your comments were in response to what I said.

PMFB-RN, RN · Oct 10, 2010

Then you shouldn't have quoted me in your post. By putting your comments directly below your quote of me, you implied that your comments were in response to what I said.

*** Uh, I was responding to what you said, that's why I quoted you. What you said not your specific situation. In particular your statement:

"her expectation that the leadership team pick up shifts on the weekend was unreasonable."

I was responding to your stated opinion, the one I quoted above, not your particular situation.

llg, PhD, RN · Oct 10, 2010

*** Uh, I was responding to what you said, that's why I quoted you. What you said not your specific situation. In particular your statement:
"her expectation that the leadership team pick up shifts on the weekend was unreasonable."
I was responding to your stated opinion, the one I quoted above, not your particular situation.

But the context of her comment was about the particular situation. Please don't quote me out of context and expect me (and other readers) not to know that you were ignoring the true context.

If you were talking about "things in general," there was no legitimate need to quote my specific words about a particular situation.

PMFB-RN, RN · Oct 10, 2010

But the context of her comment was about the particular situation. Please don't quote me out of context and expect me (and other readers) not to know that you were ignoring the true context.
If you were talking about "things in general," there was no legitimate need to quote my specific words about a particular situation.

In my view it is perfectly reasonable to expect those who are responsible for staffing the unit to come in and personally make up for their failure to properly staff the unit. I think you said you where a CNS. In no hospital I ever worked at where CNS responsible for unit staffing.

DCtraumarn · Oct 10, 2010

Our managers have 24/7 accountability to staff their units to ADC. If this done the House Supervisor then can use supplemental staffing resources to cover those unexpected call outs and or increase in census.

snuggles49 · Oct 12, 2010

In my view it is perfectly reasonable to expect those who are responsible for staffing the unit to come in and personally make up for their failure to properly staff the unit. I think you said you where a CNS. In no hospital I ever worked at where CNS responsible for unit staffing.

Are you a manager?? Why would you say it is reasonable to expect a manager to cover a short staffed unit to make up for "their failure to properly staff". You must be kidding !! There are call-offs, FMLA's, that all cause short staffing. These are not the failure of a manager. The only time our managers would work off hours if it was virtually impossible to bring in some one overtime or pull from other units or keep the census down. I have worked as a manager over 12 years and only once did I come in on an off shift and that was when I was still being paid hourly. Now , if we worked an off shift we would take another day off to cover the day we had to work. It all washs out in the end. We as managers have a lot of flexabilty with our hours and days we work.