Soo Many Posts On Criminal Records

ZASHAGALKA, RN · Jun 17, 2006

Nursing is a job where 'moral terpitude' is at issue because it is a position of trust. The State Boards of Nursing aren't there to serve NURSES; they are there to serve and protect the PUBLIC.

That being said, there IS a rule that you can find out if, due to your past record, you will be forbidden to sit boards long before you start a program.

I believe that EVERY State BON will issue, upon formal request, a declaratory finding as to whether or not a person would be eligible to sit the boards in that State. And that is due to whatever circumstance, be it civil, criminal, or health related.

Mind you, there are more reasons than criminal records to be denied licensure and/or re-licensure. For example, in Texas, the BNE (Board of Nurse Examiners) specifically lists not paying child support and/or student loans as 'moral terpitude' grounds for not issuing, or renewing, a license.

As far as second chances with drugs: nursing is both a high stress job and a job w/ convenient access to drugs. It is a potentially deadly combination. How fair would it be to place someone in the line of fire and then summarily dismiss them without a second chance? Besides, the peer programs are NOT cakewalks. Many, if not most, do not make it through them. I have tons of respect for somebody with the willpower and the courage to make it through one of those programs. That's apple and oranges to the first part of your post, if you ask me.

~faith,

Timothy.

Hellllllo Nurse, BSN, RN · Jun 17, 2006

Excellent post, Timothy.

MQ Edna · Jun 17, 2006

In my state the rule is that the cases are proven on a case by case basis. How can they rule the case by case basis without first attending the program to show the instructors and clinical intructors and other Nursing and support staff how much a person has changed. Not until you finish the program and show everyone the hard work that is done, but I'm not sure why that is not enough. If there is enough respect and hard workmanship throughout the trials of nursing school no one would know what kind of citizen a person with a crimnal record would be. Which is why they ask for letters of recommendation. I'm sure I can't just go and write a letter to the BRN and let them know that "I haven't even applied to nursing school yet, but here is my letter of recommendations from my job as a Unit Clerk (as an example), please let me take the test." I'm sure it doesnt work that way.

I also do realize that the BON is there to protect the public and not to serve the US, but how are they protecting the public when a licensed healthcare worker is using and abusing controlled substances. Why second chance them then. They have more knowledge about drugs than the rest of the unmedical world.

It just seems unfair to someone like me, is all I'm saying. I don't want to feel like I've wasted these past years of school and hard work for nothing.

MQ Edna · Jun 17, 2006

Oh and if you want to know why I'm asking these questions. It's because I worked my B U T T off in nursing school and gained the respect of a normal citizen without a record from everyone I've worked with during the program. I'm in the process of writing my letter to the BRN of what my decicsions were for the charges I have on my record. If you have just met me and befriended me now, you wouldn't even have known I had that past then. I truly regret the decisions I made in my younger years. I realize I'm paying for them now.

Hellllllo Nurse, BSN, RN · Jun 17, 2006

......I believe that EVERY State BON will issue, upon formal request, a declaratory finding as to whether or not a person would be eligible to sit the boards in that State. And that is due to whatever circumstance, be it civil, criminal, or health related.......Timothy.

Prior to attending nursing school, you can find out if your criminal record makes you ineligable to take boards

MQ Edna · Jun 17, 2006

How do you find that out. I live in CA. I have researched every inch of information and have yet to find that out. I guess it's too late for that now. I'm done with school. But please if you have the information let me know. I even contacted them told them my story and got the response of send my package with all the goods and it will be reviewed.

Home Health Columnist / Guide · Jun 17, 2006

thanks zashagalka timothy for a great response.

pertinent california regs:

business and professions code

2761. grounds for action

the board may take disciplinary action against a certified or licensed nurse or deny an application for a certificate or license for any of the following:

(f) conviction of a felony or of any offense substantially related to the qualifications, functions, and duties of a registered nurse, in which event the record of the conviction shall be conclusive evidence thereof.

2762. drug-related transgressions

2765. what deemed conviction

a plea or verdict of guilty or a conviction following a plea of nolo contendere made to a charge substantially related to the qualifications, functions and duties of a registered nurse is deemed to be a conviction within the meaning of this article. the board may order the license or certificate suspended or revoked, or may decline to issue a license or certificate, when the time for appeal has elapsed, or the judgment of conviction has been affirmed on appeal or when an order granting probation is made suspending the imposition of sentence, irrespective of a subsequent order under the provisions of section 1203.4 of the penal code allowing such person to withdraw his or her plea of guilty and to enter a plea of not guilty, or setting aside the verdict of guilty, or dismissing the accusation, information or indictment.

california penal code:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/california_penal_code

find california code

***application for licensure by examination ***

reporting prior convictions or discipline against licenses

applicants are required under law to report all misdemeanor and felony convictions. "driving under the influence" convictions must be reported. convictions must be reported even if they have been expunged

under penal code 1203.4 or even if a court ordered diversion program has been completed under the penal code or under article 5 of the vehicle code. also, all disciplinary action against an applicant's registered nurse, practical nurse, vocational nurse or other professional license must be reported.

failure to report prior convictions or disciplinary action is considered falsification of application and is grounds for denial of licensure or revocation of license.

when reporting prior convictions or disciplinary action,

applicants are required to provide a full written explanation of:

circumstances surrounding the arrest(s), conviction(s), and/or disciplinary action(s); the date of incident(s), conviction(s) or disciplinary action(s); specific violation(s) (cite section of law if convicted), court location or jurisdiction, sanctions or penalties imposed and completion dates. certified copies of court documents or state board determinations/decisions should also be included.

note: a certified copy of the arrest report may also be requested.

applicants must also submit a description of the rehabilitative changes in their life, which would enable them to avoid future occurrences.

to make a determination in these cases, the board considers the nature and severity of the offense, additional subsequent acts, recency of acts or crimes, compliance with court sanctions, and evidence of rehabilitation.

the burden of proof lies with the applicant to demonstrate acceptable documented evidence of rehabilitation.

examples of rehabilitation evidence include, but are not be limited to:

•

recent, dated letter from applicant describing rehabilitative efforts or changes in life to prevent future problems.

•

letters of reference on official letterhead from employers, nursing instructors, health professionals, professional counselors, parole or probation officers, or other individuals in positions of authority who are knowledgeable about your rehabilitation efforts.

•

letters from recognized recovery programs and/or counselors attesting to current sobriety and length of time of sobriety, if there is a history of alcohol or drug abuse.

•

proof of community work, schooling, self-improvement efforts.

•

court-issued certificate of rehabilitation or evidence of expungement, proof of compliance with criminal probation or parole, and orders of the court.

all of the above items should be mailed

directly to the board by the individual(s) or agency who is providing information about the applicant. have these items sent to the board of registered nursing,

licensing unit, p.o. box 944210, sacramento, ca 94244-2100.

ii. reporting prior convictions or discipline against licenses - (continued)

it is the responsibility of the applicant to provide sufficient rehabilitation evidence on a timely basis so that a licensing determination can be made. all evidence of rehabilitation must be submitted prior to being found eligible for an examination.

an applicant is also required to immediately report, in writing, to the board any conviction(s) or disciplinary action(s) which occur between the date the application was filed and the date that a california registered nursing license is issued. failure to report this information is grounds for denial of licensure or revocation of license.

note: the application must be completed and signed by the applicant under the penalty of perjury.

ZASHAGALKA, RN · Jun 17, 2006

In my state the rule is that the cases are proven on a case by case basis. How can they rule the case by case basis without first attending the program to show the instructors and clinical intructors and other Nursing and support staff how much a person has changed. Not until you finish the program and show everyone the hard work that is done, but I'm not sure why that is not enough. If there is enough respect and hard workmanship throughout the trials of nursing school no one would know what kind of citizen a person with a crimnal record would be. Which is why they ask for letters of recommendation. I'm sure I can't just go and write a letter to the BRN and let them know that "I haven't even applied to nursing school yet, but here is my letter of recommendations from my job as a Unit Clerk (as an example), please let me take the test." I'm sure it doesnt work that way.
I also do realize that the BON is there to protect the public and not to serve the US, but how are they protecting the public when a licensed healthcare worker is using and abusing controlled substances. Why second chance them then. They have more knowledge about drugs than the rest of the unmedical world.
It just seems unfair to someone like me, is all I'm saying. I don't want to feel like I've wasted these past years of school and hard work for nothing.

I am sure that you are a different person. That is not at issue here. No accusations are being made against you.

However, the BON and the schools are separate entities. The BON MIGHT take into consideration recommendations from your program. In fact, they probably will.

But, in order that someone who cannot sit boards doesn't take the seat of somebody that CAN sit boards in a nursing program, the BON WILL evaluate your ability to sit BEFORE you attend a program.

There are simply other references available than having you go through a program BEFORE making that decision. Requiring you to first attend a program wouldn't be fair to you, or the person who could have otherwise had that spot if you wouldn't be able to sit for boards in any case.

It IS, in fact, a matter of routine for BONs to issue declarative orders as to whether a person can sit boards before they enter a program. Even if you are already in a program, it doesn't hurt to go ahead and get that declarative finding from the CA BON.

Karen posted some information. You can go to the website for specifics about how to formally request a declarative finding as to whether you can sit the board. If you can't find that info there, find their number there and call them on Monday morning.

I do insist that there is a difference between past offenses and offenses in the 'line of duty' regarding drug diversion. The BONs don't 'let' drug abusers continue to be nurses. The have a very long row to hoe to reprove themselves in order to get back into nursing. It requires much fortitude and much humility - and many cannot hack it. And those that do, like yourself, end up being a very different and better person than when they started. I can see how, from your point of view, that can seem unfair. But I assure you, those nurses have their own crosses to bear.

I wish you luck.

~faith,

Timothy.

Works2xs · Jun 17, 2006

I do insist that there is a difference between past offenses and offenses in the 'line of duty' regarding drug diversion.

I think it basically boils down to this for employers: which is cheaper? Paying for lawyers and repairing image after someone gets hurt/killed as a result of an abusing employee? Or paying for the services to prevent the incident in the first place? In short, they do it because it passes cost-benefit muster. Giving employees a break provides incentive to get them to seek help before disaster occurs.

I also think that, depending on where you live, legislation dictates certain requirements that employers have to follow in order to have things like random drug screening and such.

ZASHAGALKA, RN · Jun 17, 2006

I think it basically boils down to this for employers: which is cheaper? Paying for lawyers and repairing image after someone gets hurt/killed as a result of an abusing employee? Or paying for the services to prevent the incident in the first place? In short, they do it because it passes cost-benefit muster. Giving employees a break provides incentive to get them to seek help before disaster occurs.
I also think that, depending on where you live, legislation dictates certain requirements that employers have to follow in order to have things like random drug screening and such.

When I was in the military, we had random drug screens due to the critical nature of the job I was in.

I think the same should be true of nursing.

No point in being clean if you can't prove it from time to time. Of course, this would drive administrations CRAZY trying to keep track of nurses on legitimate prescription drugs.

And I also think that hospitals have a 'see no evil' attitude towards it. It's an easy thing to program the controlled access machines to look at the statistical outliers for giving narcs. You'd think, a diverter would, in short order, be far off the curve than even the most aggressive pain management aware nurse.

But, maybe off topic.

~faith,

Timothy.

Sheri257 · Jun 17, 2006

In my state the rule is that the cases are proven on a case by case basis. How can they rule the case by case basis without first attending the program to show the instructors and clinical intructors and other Nursing and support staff how much a person has changed. Not until you finish the program and show everyone the hard work that is done, but I'm not sure why that is not enough. If there is enough respect and hard workmanship throughout the trials of nursing school no one would know what kind of citizen a person with a crimnal record would be. Which is why they ask for letters of recommendation. I'm sure I can't just go and write a letter to the BRN and let them know that "I haven't even applied to nursing school yet, but here is my letter of recommendations from my job as a Unit Clerk (as an example), please let me take the test." I'm sure it doesnt work that way.

Actually, just very recently, someone from Cali posted in the student forum that they did check with the BRN before entering nursing school, and they were cleared. I don't know if they got that in writing or not but, apparently, the BRN will advise you ahead of time on whether your record will prohibit you from sitting for the NCLEX. Just FYI.

:typing