Scope of RN license

Specialties Urology

Published

There is a nurse who works in a nephrologist's office. Every time I call (from a dialysis unit) the nephrologist to notify about the patient's condition or to ask for orders, this nurse at the office demands to know the details about the patient first and then starts giving the order. There have been multiple incidents, this is among one of them-

I called the office because one of my patient's dialysis access (CVC) was infected, and I needed to notify the doctor. The office nurse initially asked so many questions about this patient which is none of her business, and then starts giving the order- Draw blood for culture, I will look the dose and will call you back with vancomycin order". I said," Mam, I need to speak to the nephrologist, and I don't accept orders from an RN". she demanded to talk to the charge nurse, and in response I told her that I was the charge nurse and was refusing to take orders from her. I know many nurses take orders from her, the nephrologist doesn't have any clue of what is going on with the patient. She reluctantly said, "Well then you will have to wait, I will let him know when he comes". I requested her to page the MD for me, and finally got to speak to him.

I have also noticed that she's been signing many orders for the MD. I haven't seen it with my eyes, but am sure it is not the MD's signature.

At one point, I was even thinking of reporting her actions to the BON, but I don't have any solid document or record. These are just telephone conversations....

Specializes in jack of all trades.

This is one of the very reasons I left my previous dialysis job. Too many chiefs and not enough indians so to speak. The FA would give a verbal order for antibiotics etc and expect me to follow it. I refused as I dont take verbal orders from another nurse. If the nephrologist gives me a verbal or telephone order in the unit I am now the DON at I go write the order myself not give another verbal to the other nurse and expect her to follow it. What if he/she mistakens the order and follows something not intended and causes harm? Then it's thier tail on the line. What if I screw up and didnt get it right, then it's still his/her tail on the line for following it. No way and if you check I can bet you no matter what state you are in, it is not legal to follow another nurses verbals orders, short of it being the NP who is affliated with that particular Nephrologist with practicing priviledges. I also dont accept orders from any other doctor not on our clinic list with priviledges. This includes thier primary doctor or any other consulting MD.

This is one of the very reasons I left my previous dialysis job. Too many chiefs and not enough indians so to speak. The FA would give a verbal order for antibiotics etc and expect me to follow it. I refused as I dont take verbal orders from another nurse. If the nephrologist gives me a verbal or telephone order in the unit I am now the DON at I go write the order myself not give another verbal to the other nurse and expect her to follow it. What if he/she mistakens the order and follows something not intended and causes harm? Then it's thier tail on the line. What if I screw up and didnt get it right, then it's still his/her tail on the line for following it. No way and if you check I can bet you no matter what state you are in, it is not legal to follow another nurses verbals orders, short of it being the NP who is affliated with that particular Nephrologist with practicing priviledges. I also dont accept orders from any other doctor not on our clinic list with priviledges. This includes thier primary doctor or any other consulting MD.

Dialysis is chronic care, not rocket science. Any unit should have basic protocols. Taking initiatives to draw CBC's clood cultures, basic metabolic panels etc., are within the skill of an experience competent dialysis nurse. Administering meds, without protocols is another issue. Have one of the chief's write the med. (vanco) etc., as a verbal order from the nephrologist, then carry out the order.

Specializes in jack of all trades.

I would not just "write" a verbal order for vanco or any other med without an official order or something covering in standard protocol to cya my own rear. I have set as an expert witness in courtrooms over these same issues and I will say, if there is a screw up and you did it without contacting that MD, he is not going to cover you when and if it does become a legal issue. As a DON myself this would not be acceptable of any of my staff to do so without contacting the doc. This doesnt mean I am not a competent nurse and after 30 years in the field I have seen too many nurses go down due to mistakes and overconfidence crossing that line. Not worth my license or my livelihood. I lost my license for 4 months for doing just that with something as simple as Mylanta 19 years ago. I learned the hard way.Rather than call the Doc at 4am to change an standing order for maalox, I wrote for mylanta since the patient prefered it. Guess what thaqt order didnt get signed. If it can happen over mylanta it can happen over other meds and decisions. Go figure lol. The boards dont want to hear "I'm a prudent competent nurse" they want to know you didnt cross that line from nursing judgement to prescribing medication not within our realm of practice.

Specializes in Nephrology, Cardiology, ER, ICU.

Totally agree Lacie. I'm an advanced practice nurse in IL who works for a large nephrology practice. I do write orders and give verbal orders. I would not support a nurse who wrote an order w/o calling me.

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