Salary and Negotiation

[brista]

I know this has been a thread before, but let's have an updated conversation now that we are in 2017. I am posting this as I am a soon-to-graduate NP student and because I am a female. Nursing is still a female-dominated profession and I would like to empower other NPs (both male and female) to better negotiate and claim their professional worth. I believe one way to do this is by sharing information. Lets do this!

City/State:

Years in current position:

Salary:

Benefits:

Bonus:

Negotiation tips?!

[Aromatic]

besides the glut of nurse practitioners out there, the lack of negotiations dropping our salaries is another reason I got out. I went to a few part time job interviews a year or two ago and they slap us in the face with a sucky salary and say no negotiation, after which I thank them and walk out. They are so freaking used to nobody negotiating they just dont consider it at some places. At least in med school they tell us to negotiate since in almost all locations (besides coastal cities) we have the upperhand and the mentality of people in med school is of NOT taking the first offer.

Its pitiful I had to go back to school for 4 more years due to the weakness of both the education and lack of business mentality of the nursing profession.

Luckily I enjoy school lol. I couldnt imagine working for less than 100k in a provider role. Never have, never will, no matter what it takes. Woulda done accounting or something if I did.

[Jules A, MSN]

To be honest, aside from this I am not sure you have much negotiating room since you are new and will require considerable training. I'm not saying to take a low ball offer. Hospitals may want to pay on a pay scale based on years of experience or extra certifications in which case you won't have much leverage.

I hate those salary websites my area comes up between $89,000 and $120,000 the least I have made since getting my NP license is $160,000 with my second year $180,00 and over $200,000 since. In my opinion the best way to find out what places are paying is to know your peers and have the stones to ask them how much they are making. That is how I knew what to ask for as a new grad.

As for not having any leverage as a new grad I think it depends on the individual's skill set and whether or not they have fostered relationships as a RN or at the very least while they were doing clinicals so they have a couple of offers waiting for them. I got zero orientation other than computer training at the one place that wasn't still paper as a new grad. It was expected that I had graduated and knew how to practice. I knew I wasn't getting any special parade because I was new and therefore wasn't willing to take subpar wages.

[Jules A, MSN]

Can anyone speak to the actual process of negotiating once a job offer is made? What language have people used that worked well?

Most of the time I have primed the pump and told the physician who contacted me about the job that I make bank as a NP so it isn't a surprise going in and usually if a physician wants you on the team it is made to happen. On more than one occasion I have said "even if you think you are over paying me as a NP I know I'm way cheaper than a psychiatrist".

In instances I didn't have an inside contact I found the email of the medical director and emailed asking if they have any needs, telling a bit about my experience, name dropped common acquaintances and sent a copy of my CV. If they contact me I will talk briefly about what their needs are and bust right out with "it sounds like I'd be a great fit. I have experience with XYZ and please ask ABC to fill you in on my abilities and work ethic. What I need to tell you right up front is that I make on the high end of NP wages but am able to provide copies of my current contracts and pay stubs for verification if needed". They will ask me what the rate is and I tell them. There are definitely times when they can't or aren't willing to pay what I require but more often than not eventually they make me an offer. I always work multiple part time jobs have had 8 NP jobs and never accepted less than I requested.

[brista]

I've researched NP salaries in this region (and others) already. I've looked at salary.com, Bureau of Labor Statistics, glassdoor, etc. Like Jules A said, that's only so helpful. I think it is more productive to hear professionals dialogue specifically about the topic and to share specific information regarding their personal experience negotiating salary. I have read the book you are referring to and it is great, but the specific dialogue is better!

[brista]

I hate those salary websites my area comes up between $89,000 and $120,000 the least I have made since getting my NP license is $160,000 with my second year $180,00 and over $200,000 since. In my opinion the best way to find out what places are paying is to know your peers and have the stones to ask them how much they are making. That is how I knew what to ask for as a new grad.

Jules A, how many hours a week would you say you work on average? and when did you start working as an NP?

[NurseLauraM]

I'm a new NP, making 85,000$ base. I don't want to reveal my location because I'm paranoid about staying anonymous (there aren't many new NPs in the area I'm in). However, average for my region is around 86,000. As a new grad, 1,000 less than average was acceptable to me. There were also a few other factors that were more important to me (listed below):

- The practice is in a shortage area, qualifying me for loan forgiveness (this was the most important factor). Jobs in these areas can actually be hard to find these days since people are taking on crazy amounts of debt.

- Very long orientation period

- 32 hour work week with benefits

- CME and tuition reimbursement

- Very broad scope of practice (rural health). There is nobody else around to refer to so we do it all. It's a challenge, but I am learning a lot

- Beautiful location, outside of the city (I am one of those few weirdos who enjoys living in bum-****-nowhere)

I had other offers before accepting this one. Some paid significantly more, but were in areas with a very high cost of living. If you (or any other new grads reading this) are looking at multiple locations you need to do your research and determine what is an acceptable income for you in each area. This tool is a good place to start (although still do your own calculation too because it is only an estimation): Cost of Living Wizard | Salary.com. An example: if you currently make 150,000$ in Houston, Texas, you would need to make 288,181$ in San Francisco, CA to maintain your current standard of living. Another example: when I moved out of the city, the size of my apartment doubled and my rent decreased by 100%. You are already off to a good start by asking us where we live and not just what our salary is (which many other posters do).

As new NPs, we often accept low offers because we have very little leverage. However, if you do your research you will be in a favorable position to negotiate. You may not be able to rely on your experience to convince an employer to raise your salary, but you can certainly point to statistics and say something like, "considering the mean income in this region for an NP with my level of experience is X amount, I would expect at least X amount for this position". If you have multiple offers, you can also use that as leverage.

Finally, if you can't negotiate your salary as desired and you have no other option but to take the job (if you have no other offers, have run out of money, etc.), at least try to negotiate some of the other terms. For example, ask for DEA and license reimbursement, time off for CME, better schedule, etc.

Best of luck!

[NurseLauraM]

Sorry OP, I just saw that you said you hate the salary websites! Ignore the previous link I posted.

If you find that resources online are not accurate, you can always ask around to get a better estimation.

[foggnm]

Most HR offices in healthcare have standard procedures for salary determination thus limiting your negotiation powers. The smartest thing for you to do is to use one of the numerous internet tools to see the market for NPs in your area. A very easy one is to go to indeed.com and type in nurse practitioner and your city and on the right side it shows you the average salary for that position in your area. Healthcare salaries are generally not a secret because our jobs are so interchangeable.

[Jules A, MSN]

Most HR offices in healthcare have standard procedures for salary determination thus limiting your negotiation powers. The smartest thing for you to do is to use one of the numerous internet tools to see the market for NPs in your area. A very easy one is to go to indeed.com and type in nurse practitioner and your city and on the right side it shows you the average salary for that position in your area. Healthcare salaries are generally not a secret because our jobs are so interchangeable.

Not always and I'd disagree this is the smartest way. The smartest way, imo, is to develop relationships with peers who are willing to share salary and job information. FWIW I checked indeed.com per your suggestion and didn't see an average salary box on the right, just one asking for my email and a locums ad but the jobs that it returned using psych also were between $92,304 - $132,987 a year. I make over $200,000 a year so your method would have cost me more than a few dollars. :)

[Aromatic]

lol at salary websites. If you take an average of the amount of people in the solar system without looking at specific locations, one would think Jupiter had the highest population.

[WKShadowNP, DNP, APRN]

Upper coast of SC.

$120K/yr. Hospitalist.

$2k CME

Decent pto (3 weeks?)

Insurance

And other perks that escape me at the moment.

Tips: I looked at my local np group's report on salary and based my minimum asking a little higher than the mean. I was surprised with their first offer which was 35k more than the mean.

Network. My new role is at thehospital I first worked as a new RN and prior to that in 1999. Many physicians are still there that I knew then and I ran into them on my interview "tour." This included the current chief of medicine. Hence the importance of not burning bridges. The medical community is small and has a long memory.

[Riburn3, BSN, MSN, APRN, NP]

City/State: West Texas

Years in current position: 6 months main job, 2 years side job

Salary: $110k base at my main job working for a large hospital chain, a percentage of gross receipts with my PRN job equaled $73k for 2016.

Benefits: 4 weeks PTO which increases to 6 weeks after 2 years, health, dental, vision, life insurance for my spouse and I, and an employee stock purchase plan where I get to buy shares at a 10% discount.

Bonus: 15k on hire and again when I hit my second year.

Specialty: Cardiology/Internal Medicine

Simple tips:

Know your market and what other ACTUAL people are making. Don't read too much into these forums.

Try and learn what billing codes you will be using most frequently, how much that code reimburses, and how many patients you will be seeing a day. For example, if they want you to see 20 patients a day and your most frequently used code reimburses $80 (like 99213 or 99214) before copay etc, you will get a general idea of your revenue stream. If someone is expecting you to generate half a million a year and they want to pay you $80k for your services, don't take it. They get away with this because people often don't realize what they're worth until they're locked into a long contract with a no compete clause.

Know that experience in this field is rewarded. Providers and larger companies want people that they don't have to train extensively and after you have gained experience, the compensation will also be rewarded.