RN, NP, and Corpsman Career Questions

jfratian, DNP, RN, CRNA · Jul 12, 2014

Slow down, cowboy. I appreciate the ambition, but there a couple of things wrong here.

First-off, I think an associates in nursing is a waste if you're thinking military. It takes 2.5-3 years to finish an ADN, and you could finish a BSN in 4 years; ADN nurses don't practice as nurses in the active duty military. People with a BSN can join as officers. While corpsmen/med techs get to do some cool stuff, you won't be practicing at the Registered Nurse level if you enlist. I would think that would put you at a disadvantage in an NP program.

Second, any master's program that involves clinical rotations (NP or CRNA) is likely going to be incompatible with any sort of active duty job. You would either have to apply for one of those full-time education programs (very competitive) or separate, finish school, and re-join.

I think your best bet is to start applying for ROTC scholarships. I hear the navy is thinking of getting rid of Nursing ROTC, so look into that too. If you don't have the grades for that, there are many people who do non-scholarship ROTC. In the Air Force, I work with someone who was able to get commissioned as a non-scholarship ROTC nurse and get her loans paid for retroactively.

Although the numbers wax and wain, all branches also have some degree of a direct commission route for both brand new and experienced civilian nurses and nurse practitioners. That's also an option for you if you decide ROTC isn't going to work. Just FYI (if you join later on), experienced healthcare providers enter with advanced rank with direct commission. It's not uncommon for experienced RNs to enter as O3s. Docs or Mid-levels (NPs or PAs) routinely enter as O4s.

Vanessa182 · Jul 12, 2014

Thank you very much for the info! I was lookin into a bridge program available at GCU to go from ADN to MSN, but if an associates does take longer than I anticipated, I might as well try a scholarship or explore other options. I'm definitely checking into ROTC now, along with alternatives.

I was solely entertaining the thought of enlisting as a corpsman to metaphorically "test the waters" before commiting to (hopefully) a lifelong healthcare career, with a majority of it in the military, but backtracking, I guess an ADN would still be merely a year short of the BSN "commitment". Probably wouldn't break even :)

I have a lot of researching ahead of me!

Thank you

nurse2033, MSN, RN · Jul 12, 2014

To "test the waters" how did you end up at corpsman? I agree with jfratian. You can become a CNA for very little cost and commitment. If you want to be a nurse, go to nursing school. If you want to be in the military, you need to decide if you want to be enlisted or an officer. Becoming a corpsman makes no sense unless that is your end goal. It will tie you into a multi year commitment and not give you any credentials that contribute towards your nursing career. It will give you experience but there are many easier ways to get that (see sentence #2). ROTC allows you to get your education and prepare for the military at the same time but you have to be 18. With the downsizing coming in the military, by the time you get your education the landscape will have surely changed. I'm assuming you are not 18 and could not enlist immediately. If you want to be a nurse, start there. Once you finish school, you now have options. You should get experience working as a nurse, then you could become an NP, commission in the military, or whatever you want. Good luck.

NavyNurseCorpsPM1 · Jul 12, 2014

Vanessa128,

First Congratulations on all of the accomplishments so far, and I am certainly impressed that your life map goes so far out…I am still trying to figure out what I want to be when I grow up, so I enjoy it when I see such focus in others.

Now…I am a Navy Nurse, so I am only going to answer the Navy side of the house on these things. Please ask away if it gets confusing. I am prior enlisted, but I was not a Corpsman…this said, I have deployed with and am an FMF qualified medical officer, so I do have some insight there as well. In order here goes…

1. Being a Corpsman is a huge stepping stone to a lot of things, but it will not take the place of a BSN. You can challenge the NCLEX in some states and the LPN also, but this is only after you have some years under your belt, reach a certain rank, and have your "C" school finished. You also have to think about the enlisting part…depending on the "C" school you choose there are different commitments and options for duty stations. On any given day the opportunity to enlist as a Corpsman changes. If you do decide to enlist and you do want to be a Corpsman, then you may have to wait until they have an opening…this would be the perfect opportunity to get some of your basic college requirements out of the way i.e. English, History, Art…the Navy ACE credit takes care of the more technical side.

2. I do not quite understand this question, but I will answer it under my interpretation. If I am wrong just ask another one. There are a lot of Corpsmen who take courses while at duty stations. Those who are at the bigger hospitals usually have more time to try and work in the classes with labs. If you are dead set on the FMF (8404) route, then your cycles and routines may not allow the time to pursue any of your lab courses. If you do find the time, and mind you this will not be in the first year or so if you go straight to the trainings, then it is possible to earn your BSN while active duty. I have known some Corpsmen who have done this, and they have long days and nights, and it has taken them several years between work, training, deployments, and everyday life. If you do earn your BSN, "taking a break" is up to you at that point. You can certainly finish out your enlistment and then apply to come back as a Direct Accession BSN, but there are no guarantees. We have prior enlisted apply just as we have outside nurses, and they all go to the same board for a determination. Your enlisted time will not count towards rank. Only your working time after your BSN completion is counted, and this is given as a 1/2 credit basis up to 3 years…meaning if you graduate May 2015 and are applying May 2016 you could be eligible for 6mo credit (OPNAV 1120.7A). The board are the only source for granting credit, so ANYONE telling you ANYTHING prior to a board decision is merely making an educated guess using the instruction I just gave you. During your "break" you would have to work as a BSN to be considered to come back. Just for clarification…I am speaking as if you were coming back Active Duty…if you want to know a Reserve Nursing question please let me know.

3. If you truly truly want something, then you find ways to get it. Having the option to go and be with the Marines may not be available because of manning, missions, or needs. We have less spots for females yes, because our Marine based Corpsmen stay with the Marines. They go everywhere with whom they are assigned, and in most cases these are assignments that require a male Corpsman. Female Corpsmen have different opportunities, but no they do not go out forward like their counterparts do.

4. When we deployed our females worked the surgical center, in all capacities. The Navy is HUGE on cross-training…we like to be able to depend on anyone and not have to wait for the only Rad Tech to be found. They went out and did visits to the local towns and provided care to people in the villages. They earned their FMF qualification alongside all of their male counterparts. They were expected to pull 24-hour duties, respond to mass casualties, prep the OR, Triage, work with the Nurses and Physicians, and were treated no differently. We did shower separately and had separate toilets, but I do not once ever remember thinking "if only I were a man I would be allowed to do that". Our expectations are gender neutral.

5. Marines think of you what you show them. If you are competent, knowledgable, and care for them like they expect and rely on you to, then they treat you as a "Doc". If you are an idiot and you offend them, treat them like they are beneath you, or do not know our job and you are responsible for injuring them, then they will not think twice about welcoming you in…you will be left alone. Marines are the absolute best deployment cycle a person working in medicine could ever have the privilege to work alongside. They have a job that is not so camera ready, and they come back to base knowing that no matter what you have their back and can fix things when they go wrong (medically). In a heartbeat, if called with 12 hours notice, I would pack up my duffel bags and be ready to go anywhere to support them.

6. Depends on if you choose to stay enlisted after your BSN. I personally am in favor of brick and mortar if you are choosing to do the FNP route

7/9. I am not a NP so I cannot answer this question, but generically we have 3 year assignments if stationed in the US. 2 year unaccompanied and 3 year accompanied if outside the US. NP's generally will be working in clinics because they are assisting with supplementing the physicians. NP's do deploy, and they have the same opportunities as the rest for advancement and special assignments. We go against each other as a whole in Nursing for advancement, so they have to work as hard as the rest with collateral duties, and extras to stand out. You will deploy just as everyone else deploys. That question is better erred by someone who has deployed in that specialty.

8. The Navy does not currently recruit for Reserve or Active Family Nurse Practitioner outside of the Navy. We allow those commissioned Nurses who get it on their own to apply internally for a re-designation if they wish. It keeps this specialty manned at over 100% because we have a lot of people who do do this that already have their commissions. We do not entertain Inter-Service transfers either.

We do always look for:

Pediatric Nurse Practitioner

Mental Health Nurse Practitioner

Midwife

SOMETIMES:

Womens Health Nurse Practitioner

Anything outside of the above we either do not have quotas for or we do not recognize in the Navy Nurse Corps as a subspecialty.

I know this is long, but hope you got some good info. Please let me know if you have any other questions about Navy Nursing.

Ciao Ciao,

LT, NC, USN

Vanessa182 · Jul 13, 2014

Thank you everyone for all the great insight (:

As far as the enlisting over going the officer route debate goes, so far regardless of college and degrees, I was interested in enlisting. It's been one of my goals for over the past 5 years. I understand how I'd be starting at the bottom of the barrel as opposed to using my degree as an officer, but my focus was never for the benefits, money, rank, etc. I was always interested in enlisting early on out of high school, but my attraction to healthcare and sciences brought me to wanting to enlist as a medic (Corpsman). I was never intending on using my RN degree (wether it be ADN or BSN) in the military as an officer--I would wait until after grad school. However, I was given the advice to at least get an associates I'm interested in for after the military--a safety net to fall back onto.

NavyNurseCorpsPM1,

thank you especially for covering everything! A lot of things were cleared up. I do have a few questions still..

As you said I may have a wait for enlisting as a corpsman so I should take advantage and study, would you suggest finishing my general ed associates as opposed to waiting on my associates in nursing?

On a personal level, if you were originally enlisted and only studied nursing after your enlistment, do you regret not obtaining your degree right off the bat, and then ensigning with it?

A lot later on down the line, at grad school, I researched bridge programs from ADN to MSN (BSN covered in first year of program) and fancied the bridge to master of science in nursing: Acute Care Nurse Practitioner with an Emphasis in Adult-Gerontology. After you saying though the few highly desired specialties, would I be better off using the bridge to any of the mentioned NP programs? I simply chose my first choice because on the civilian side I have an interest in urgent care (which originally attracted me to enlisting as a corpsman--emergency medicine :)

thank you very much to everyone for all the info!

jfratian, DNP, RN, CRNA · Jul 13, 2014

As far as the emergency medicine goes, understand that it's possible that you may not be assigned in that area right off the bat.

Also, in my experience with the Air Force, military treatment facilities (many integrate members from multiple branches) don't have as high of acuity as some of the larger civilian hospitals. It seems like the military is largely outsourcing critical care services to the civilian sector to save money (few bases even have inpatient units let alone ICUs). If you're not deployed, your patients will generally be healthier than if you worked in a civilian hospital. Right now, not as a many people are deploying. You are taking a risk that you might not get the critical care experience that you want by joining.

RunBabyRN · Jul 13, 2014

I think you still have a lot of research to do. First, understand that nursing programs aren't like "regular" college, where you sign up for this class and that around your schedule and take whatever you feel like this semester. They are a full time job, and you're on the school's schedule. I can tell you that unless you go through a commissioning program (acceptance to which is absolutely NOT guaranteed), it is NOT compatible with active duty service. Same goes for a MSN program while serving as a HM.

I was a corpsman. I joined the Navy to see the world. They sent me to a Naval clinic in New England. I did get some great experience that served me well in nursing school and will serve me well as a nurse (I am newly licensed and have yet to work as a RN). You have only so much say over where you go, especially for your first duty station. You may or may not be able to go right to FMSS. Also, as a HM, you are absolutely NOT guaranteed emergency medicine. Even with the Marines, you'll be doing more sick call than trauma. I'm sure you're imagining GSWs and amputations and morphine coming out your ears, but that's not the norm. That's a bad day. That's people you know and care about by the time it's happening, not some random person checking into the ER on your 8 hour shift. It's VERY different than civilian medicine. Be aware of that- these are people you rely on day in and day out to keep you safe, and vice versa. There's a kinship only military people can understand, and when it's your buddy that's decompensating and has an arterial bleed, it's harder to remain objective than if it's some guy who just came in in an ambulance. This is why people come back with PTSD and survivor's guilt. If your goal with HM is to "test the waters in medicine/nursing," become a CNA and work in a hospital or a SNF.

No, HM experience doesn't count as RN experience. Boy do I wish it did! I'd have a real RN job by now! :)

Whatever you do, DO NOT enlist after getting your RN. If you choose to go in with your RN, go nurse corps. You will need at least your BSN, and likely some experience. If you were to enlist with your RN, people (hiring managers, recruiters) would wonder what's wrong with you, honestly. It would make you a very UNdesirable candidate for anything. Really, don't bother with an associate's in ANYTHING, because it doesn't count for anything anymore. If you have a wait to enlist as a HM (as I did- about a year), definitely take the time to take some courses. You'll have a date for when you'll ship out, so you can plan around that.

These days, females are doing a lot of the same stuff males are. I can tell you that Marines don't care what gender Doc is. They have undying respect for a good corpsman. Just as they say, "Once a Marine, always a Marine," "Once a corpsman, always a corpsman." Every former Marine I've encountered that I've told I am a former corpsman has shaken my hand and treated me with a lot of respect. Now, that said, Marines have equally strong feelings about bad corpsmen. They won't be afraid to let you know in which category you fall.

Navy NPs work in all kinds of capacities, same as civilian, plus in war zones on bases across the world. Deployments vary greatly. Some could be desk jobs somewhere, some could be in the desert, some could be on a carrier, some could be to a prison in the Caribbean. You never know.

You asked another poster about how she felt if she pursued nursing only after enlisting. This is the case for me- I changed majors a few times before enlisting, and then wanted to become an OB, but then realized the midwifery approach is more my deal. My BSN is a step toward that. Once I have a few years' worth of experience, I'll go back for my master's. I don't regret it- my HM experience is part of what helped me figure out what I wanted to do. I went to school part time while serving to get some general ed out of the way, but did the rest afterward with my GI Bill and vocational rehab.

As far as picking a specialty for your master's, consider getting your bachelor's and working for a few years as a nurse. You'll have a better sense of your options and how you REALLY feel working in that area of nursing. You may also be surprised what you do and don't actually like. You'll have more options available to you, in terms of jobs and master's programs, if you have your BSN.

I think the best thing you could do (for us) is summarize your ultimate goal in a sentence or two. From there, it will be easier to help guide you in the right direction with more specifics. You talk about being a Navy nurse, but then about going into gerontology, then into urgent care, so I'm a bit confused as to what your ultimate goal is.

RunBabyRN · Jul 13, 2014

As far as the emergency medicine goes, understand that it's possible that you may not be assigned in that area right off the bat.
Also, in my experience with the Air Force, military treatment facilities (many integrate members from multiple branches) don't have as high of acuity as some of the larger civilian hospitals. It seems like the military is largely outsourcing critical care services to the civilian sector to save money (few bases even have inpatient units let alone ICUs). If you're not deployed, your patients will generally be healthier than if you worked in a civilian hospital. Right now, not as a many people are deploying. You are taking a risk that you might not get the critical care experience that you want by joining.

YES. We had a clinic, but all inpatient stuff and emergencies (outside of our urgent care unit- which generally meant they were getting transported to the hospital) were at the local civilian hospital. More and more of this is happening, outside of the MAJOR military hospitals like Balboa, Walter Reed, etc. Our clinic was built next to the old Naval hospital. Even in the clinics now, they're contracting civilians for more and more positions.

NavyNurseCorpsPM1 · Jul 13, 2014

Vanessa182, I agree with a lot of the information that RunBabyRN gave you. Mostly, I think you need to focus on enjoying your time as a young adult and plan, but don't over think too much.

--If you are absolutely set on enlisting, then Yes to General Education, but NO to the Associates in Nursing. The Army will let you function as a Nurse, they are not officers…I believe they are rated as a tech and they are enlisted. If you absolutely do not want to wait and getting the Associate level is a must, then you may want to go to the Army recruiters and ask some of the questions to them. IN NO WAY am I advocating for the Army, but if you want that path then perhaps it may serve you better. If you want to be a Corpsman then be a Corpsman with all of the days that things will be exciting, and ALL of the days that you will be in front of a computer doing some online training and required evaluation input. Ups and Downs as in all of the civilian world as well.

--ABSOLUTELY NOT! I was actually a nuclear electrician when enlisted and became a trainer. That part of my Navy career was the BEST thing for me. It solidified a firm base for me to grow and build on, and it gave me an understanding of the enlisted side that sometimes eludes junior officers. I also think being away from medicine, I was a CPhT before I enlisted and had worked in medicine in some capacity since I was 17, gave me time to refocus and learn different aspects that have become invaluable as I move forward. The "Nuke" world definitely taught me how to study, and how to work long strenuous hours in small spaces. In short, pretty much nothing to complain about from my end of things. I also think it has helped when deployed and working the different nursing assignments I have and the ability to do…it reminds me that we are all people working together to achieve goals. Sometimes people forget that when they get too far into the Officer/Enlisted relationship. There is ALWAYS respect, but we can have arguments and discussions of differing opinions. I think there is a place for Officers that come straight in out of college, but I think those of us who are Mustangs bring the other parts to the table.

--You should always do what makes you feel happy and fulfilled…unless of course that follows sociopathic tendencies. Don't base you education and future off of what may or may not be available in the Navy. If you do that you may feel resentful in the end, and there is NEVER a guarantee that you get in anyway. I again say, slow down and enjoy your time. Sit down and figure out the next 2 or 3 years, but beyond that you sort of have to let unknowns play their part as well.

Let me know what else and I will continue to answer and chat.

Ciao Ciao

LT, NC, USN

Vanessa182 · Jul 16, 2014

Definitely a lot to soak up (:

I've thought in a nutshell of what I'm interested in, as yes, I was bouncing everywhere :) short term, I would like to enlist--associates or not..For the ups and downs of a corpsman's duties should I be lucky enough to become one.

After the Navy, a lot later on down the line I would like go into nursing and even later on top of that, get my masters.

In a sentence or two: enlist when I become eligible and I'm still young, then much later fall back onto civilian nursing.

So far those are just MY goals--I've gotten a lot of different opinions and ideas from those I've confronted. I have a year (maybe 1.5) of school left to think about it.

RunBabyRN · Jul 17, 2014

Definitely a lot to soak up (:
I've thought in a nutshell of what I'm interested in, as yes, I was bouncing everywhere :) short term, I would like to enlist--associates or not..For the ups and downs of a corpsman's duties should I be lucky enough to become one.
After the Navy, a lot later on down the line I would like go into nursing and even later on top of that, get my masters.
In a sentence or two: enlist when I become eligible and I'm still young, then much later fall back onto civilian nursing.
So far those are just MY goals--I've gotten a lot of different opinions and ideas from those I've confronted. I have a year (maybe 1.5) of school left to think about it.

One good thing about taking the approach you've mentioned is that you'll then have your GI Bill available. Then you can do your bachelor's, should you choose to do so, and if you want, you can try to commission at that point,or do the reserves, or whatever floats your boat. The experience you can gain as a corpsman, regardless of your duty station, may help guide the rest of your career.

Good luck! :)