I am looking for some insight into retaliation acts by employers.I am a RN in a ICU setting at a major teaching hospital.I have been a resource to my entire unit.I received a promotion only weeks ago.I received a email from my unit manager only hours before she fired me "thanking me" for my dedication to the new nursing staff. I have never been written up, never a verbal warning.My evaluations have been excellent in all my years at this hospital. Until this past month....
I voiced my concerns over some incompetency acts performed by a coworker-nurse. These were acts that were not merely mistakes...they were acts that could have resulted in patient death. I tried to set a meeting with my nurse manager to discuss this nurses incompetent level of function...and I was met with a date to come in for a termination meeting...mine!
This nurse was the nurse managers best friend and recently was her assistant manager.She had done office work for years and had not taken care of any actual patient in years. When she opted to go back into staffing she "refused " to "accept" any orientation....and so she was left to learn by trial and error.In a ICU setting...thats just wrong!Othernurses had complained to the nurse manager to no avail...but I am a lil different.I have a history of being a strong patient advocate and I had told the nurse who was functioning incompetently that I was left with no choice but to go to our risk management dept re: her unsafe pratices.Hours later....I was "fired" for an alledged documentation error. This same kind of documentation error has resulted in no disciplinary action for other employees.Secondly ...my chart had been altered after I left...so I actually never had a documentation error.I dont know what to do. I have been a model employee for years.I have asked for dispute resolution....but they keep postphoning the dispute resolution hearing. What actually happens in a dispute resolution hearing? Are they a sham?Do you have any advice? I feel like I have been incredibly niave.Like I should have seenit coming...but didnt.
I am not actually going to tell you what state I am in I might be in texas,Tennessee,south carolina,North Carolina, Alabama etc etc etc.I was only "born in Tennessee"...hence my name TNNURSE. According to my state's law...as long as ONE of the 2 people being recorded have knowledge that the converstaion is being recorded...then it is legal.Perfectly...100% legal. You guys may be right.I may be niave in thinking that my old hosp[ital is interested in doing the right thing.I too worked in 1of the leading "best hospitals in the US".Stangely enough...you guys said something that really hit home. I was in the top pay scale...and was replaced with a new grad making not quite 1/2 my salary.So maybe the unit manager had screwed up the units budget so bad she needed to "cut costs" and I was just a open opportunity after notifying the risk mgmt dept of her friends perceived incompetence.
I am not allowed to bring anyone to my meeting...so any other insights or advice?
They will try to outgun you, more Managers to back up the Manager who will lead the assault of lies. There will be several layers of Management plus an HR person plus you should realize that the "neutral person" who is to judge this Kangaroo court is another Hospital stooge. Is there an employee advocate or do you have a Union person who can be expected to assist in representing your side? Any witnesses as to your job performance or persons who can verify what you say about others documenting not quite on time, but suffering minimal consequences?
Contact them before the hearing and find out exactly who you will be facing off against aside from your immediate Manager; question why each of these people needs to be there especially since you might be expected to attend alone. "So let me get this straight, there will be five representatives from the Hospital Management and I am supposed to face them alone?" If they say you cannot have anyone there with you and you can have no witnesses present on your behalf then let them know that only the guilty need to stack the odds in such a grossly unfair way. Tell them that you are documenting the Hearing as a futile intimidation tactic with no relevance to any attempt at fairness. Consult a Lawyer or at least tell them you are consulting your Lawyer as to whether there is any point in attending a one sided chastising session or if you should move on to legal action without further delay. Contact that Whistle blower site on line. I would anticipate three Managers, an HR person plus that fake neutral party. Meticulously document all of the names and titles of everyone who is in attendance and how to contact them after the hearing. Bring the tape recorder and if they do not allow its use document this further indication of guilt on their part.
They will do the smoke and mirrors trick, but let them know that it is not going to wash. Bombard them with copious paperwork and fain utter shock with every piece of documentation that they should have, but do not produce. Make a short list of all the documenting evidence that you expect them to send to you or your Lawyer ASAP. Now all those extra people who showed up to beef-up the goon squad ranks and make this sham look legit will be expecting contact from your Lawyer, so don't disappoint them.
I knew none of this when I went to my so called "Grievance Hearing;" I was as innocent and unsuspecting as you. Whenever I faced off against them I was very heavily outnumbered. My EEOC hearing I faced five or six of their Managers or representatives even the neutral mediator fell for the lies, hook line and sinker. She was convinced of my guilt by the "evidence" that had to be shown to her in a separate room so that I could not refute its validity! Each time I faced them I felt more demoralized and helpless it was very humiliating. Because I was unable to contact the Hospital, access my personnel files, my pay files or review the full extent of the false allegations against me I was just relentlessly victimized at these encounters.
The majority of my former coworkers broke off all contact with me as they felt their own jobs threatened. I lost most of the friends I had gained since moving to Maryland and I felt very isolated with my nearest family the other side of the Atlantic. The Nurse who had sold me my house in Baltimore was an excellent OR Nurse who I had learned so much from she had become quite a close friend. My family had invited her to spend the Christmas holiday with us in England one year; she didn't join us, but she knew she was welcome. She had called me the day I was marched out as a criminal and she said "I thought you must have really lost it" thinking I had become angry enough to warrant the guards. However when I told her the truth she asked to stay in touch and said she would write me a great reference.
After the sham EEOC "Mediation" she called me to ask how it went. She asked if they had offered me money and when I told her I had turned down an $8500 bribe she called me a "complete idiot." She then insisted on no further contact with me and refused to write the reference; she actually went so far as to put a letter of complaint into my personal file 8months after I was fired. I heard about the letter many months after that when the Board of Nursing subpoenaed my files. I was devastated that a friend could be manipulated by the Management so easily. However, as desperately hard up as I was during that period the one thing I have never regretted is not succumbing to the Hospital bribe. They made veiled threats about how if I just wrote them a letter of resignation there would be no further harm done to my professional reputation. After several hours of listening to them spew lies about me as if I was a dangerous industrial terrorist and knowing that they had convinced a Mediator that I was capable of a criminal level of harassment I was supposed to take their sleazy bribe and shut up about their patient safety issues for good. I was not about to put a lie in writing and I am glad I had the guts to say no.
I am telling you this for a reason. To the Hospital everyone has a price which will buy their silence. Part of the inducement to take such a bribe is their overwhelming pressure to convince you that you are completely isolated, totally unsupported in your efforts and they are all powerful. By convincing you that all attempts to change negligent policy are futile you may be persuaded to give in. This is the why commit career suicide as it accomplishes nothing strategy. I hope you do not give in to them as you patients need you to be strong. The important message here is that you must be very cautious about your former coleges as Management will ask them to betray you. People are scared of loosing their jobs and they do not comprehend the relevance of taking a stand on any issue. Very, very, very, few will understand your sticking to your principals. It is amazing how most will focus only on the money aspect as if a financial settlement of some kind makes negligence and patient endangerment acceptable.
It is so important for those with a strong case to fight the battle and not give up. You are their toughest challenge. With good references it is hard to discredit your work ethic and that is the very thing they are trying to go after with some minor technicality. Get your references lined up and ready to go ASAP before scared staff back away for fear of retaliation. By the way the bad Manager left in place to encourage tenure Nurses to leave is a major campaign going on all over the US. The other tactic is to make the mandated call and overtime so oppressive that tenure Nurses come of salary with benefits and go to float pool or agency where they only take you if and when they need you. Axing your benefits is another gain for them. The new Nurse grads cost less money and they are more compliant, but the honeymoon for them does not last forever, as once they move up to a higher pay scale they will be ousted too.
Cases like yours are instances where the tenure Nurse removal program goes horribly wrong and occasionally seriously backfires on them. However, they are counting on you giving up without much of a fight; please don't let them win. Good Nurses need to put an end to this cycle of at the Hospital's convenience disposable Nursing staff. Be prepared for a grotesquely unfair, unjust, if not downright illegal fight that lies ahead of you. If they do not act in a completely spineless, deceitful way you can be pleasantly stunned if you prevail, good luck, you will need it,
A few words of advice: NAME RANK AND SERIAL NUMBER.
My sister the professor of nursing would advise you to go back and learn more.
Myself, I learned enough.
Stick to simple phrases and beware they are trying to elicit an EMOTIONAL REACTION from you to DISCUSS POLITICS and HOW YOU FEEL.
It's all b/s. stick to the facts.
Bring your lawyer along anyhow. Don't ask permission, it's easier to ask forgiveness.
You are walking into THE SHADOW OF DEATH!!!
They want you to resign.
They offered you money to do it.
Bring the lawyer along and HE can tell them how to FEEL about adding another "O" onto the end of that sum.
My prayers are for your good light.
Never let it be extinguished by mudslingers.
These are the dark days. Things will get better.... (one of my prayers.)
Hugs from Panhandler:deadhorse
Panhandler....I like you! And you are so right, don't get emotional about this. Its about facts and getting desired outcomes...hopefully the right outcomes given this pathetic match between the strong arm health system vs the caring, ethical, highly knowledgable and skilled professional nurse. One nurse against an entire healthcare system with her attorney seems pretty dismal...but alas...laying down and saying uncle is what they hope for. But its people with a strong resolve that often make the changes!
Surely you know the game and how its played. I pray TN NURSE wins this and I am encouraged to know there are some pretty savy nurses on board here with great counsel!
God bless you and Godspeed to TN. I am reminded of my personal faith....One + God = The Majority. Hope others can take comfort in this.
These situations are horrible and hold us as non-humans, and what the hospitals and management do to destroy your career. Nursing in big corporate owned hospitals are absolutely dangerous. Before I returned to nursing in the summer, I had volunteered in one of the "corporate" owned psych hospitals for a year and was encouraged every day to renew my license and go to work there. I did get my license and enrolled in a refresher class.
While I was still at the "corporate psych hospital" I had seen abuse by a certain CNA that that belonged to a union and although nurses complained about it nothing could be done. One evening when I was seeing not only abuse from this CNA, but the first time I met the Nurse Manager of this unit, she was socializing, taking smoke breaks and not monitoring patients. Nothing dangerous just ignoring patients, but she was abusive of me. I have glowing reports at that hospital as a volunteer and I decided that I would just resign. Of course the volunteer coordinator urged me not to, the day nurse manager urged me not to resign, but would I please give them something about it in writing and told me I was doing the right thing. I did the wrong thing and trusted them. Of course, I could not go back to that unit and found I paid a big price.
So when I started my clinicals, from the very beginning, the instructor who was quite old, began the task of breaking me down by telling me I shouldn't apply for these fast paced jobs, I wouldn't be able to keep up with the younger nurses. Every point of my enthusiam I was brought down by this instructor. I was even asked to apply on a certain floor. But the sweet, grandmotherly instructer said, "they were only being nice." Little did I realize that this sweet, motherly, sympathic person, was an act to gain your trust and to get all she could to use against you, I innocently told her about the experience in the other corporate hospital, she indeed used it.
I had reported near the end of my clinicals, the harassment I was experiencing with a certain nurse, realizing it was part of the plan to get me out and she told me that every unit I had been in I was "incompetint" and all my work had to be done over etc. I am assuming that she used the fact that I had made the complaint at the same corporate sister hospital to alert the staff that I was a danger to the hospital or a whistleblower or something of that kind to get the hospital personnel to cooperate with her demise of me.
What others of you are experiencing is all too common. The thing that bothers me the most about nurses, is how they willingly, and cruely, do such things to try completely destroy you. I am very aware of this, but I just don't understand the cruelty. And even though I have been a victim, I understand that this is widespread, but it still hurts.
I have also been working at a psych residental facility part-time where, can I say, "I am loved?" And just got a part-time job that fits me perfectly for the part-time job and hours I want, with RN wages, and only passing meds and doing IVs. So I feel like I have the perfect jobs and pay and hours I want, without the abuse, the stress and backbreaking 12 hour shifts.
I am going to file a discrimination complaint against the instructor with the school I did the refresher program with, even if it results in no disciplinary action for her. I at least want it documented, because this is how they get away with things like this. Many nurses or other employees are not willing to undergo the stress of the horrible emotional impact it takes on one. Or some might not be able to afford to hire an attorney. And as someone stated, if you win, you life will be made a hell.
The bottom line, is extreme profit driven greed by the corporate hospitals and their competion with other "hospital chains." No longer a profession, but an industry. But you know what, I am very happy with my part-time jobs, and I know they have to make a profit, but they are HUMANS.
My best wishes to you. You apparently are a very strong person and I wish you the most and very best. Although, you can be persecuted for something that you have not done, it can be extremely painful and traumatic.
maybe..you guys are right. i may very well be naive.i probably am to a certain degree...and i admit it.
i have already been the victim of a preemptive strike. i hate that i even had to "learn" what that term - preemptive strike means.the nm got rid of me so that my formal reports on this nurses incompetent/unsafe acts would be discredited.thereafter...all complaints by myself would be labeled as just a "disgruntled fired employee". i "would have " been effectively discredited.however,...my case is a lil different.these 2 really didnt think it through very well...and they cant keep their lies straight .first of all i wasnt the only one who was being very very verbal about this nurses lack of acceptable skills.numerous nurses went to the nm...and she gave them lipservice and never took care of the problem of ensuring this nurses actions were stopped.i wasnt even in the top 10.so..they can not label it as a isolated incident that they had received numerous complaints. secondly,...these same outta control pair...actually wrote formal letters/evaluations along with a few coworkers requesting that i be promoted only like a month before i was fired...so nothing makes sense!!!first they say i am an incredible , highly skilled nurses...then i complain of the nurses unsafe practices and now ...i suck????.the jest of these letters/evaluations is that basically i am a highly experienced ccrn and function with such a high level of skill that i should be promoted.i was then presented to a central committe of this hospital.....and these unbiased central committe rns evaluated my level of function and said " yes....she functions with a level of skill and experience that she meets all of our hospitals strict criteria for this promotion.". i was then promoted...got a raise...and then apx 4 weeks later received a email from my nm thanking me for my "dedication" to all the nsg staff.the next night i complained of her friends incompetence...notified rm and the next day i was gone!so...they can read the nurse managers version of what "level of functioning" i was. straight from the horses ( ass) oops,.. sorry,.. i meant to say mouth.so..numerous employees had complained about this nurses lack of skills and knowledge before me.it should have been stopped there.....but it wasnt...that nm turned a deaf ear to numerous nurses complaints over various things.so...i filed complaints.... then...i am fired like the next day(apx 24hrs later).my work record is impeccable.it is spotless,..glowing.while texas is an at will employment state...they are many exceptions to that law....and retaliatory discharge is one of them.
when i was terminated.....this nm actually lied about what day of the week it occurred on.i have it on audiotape.so they can hear that straight from the horses ass...oops...sorry again.horses mouth too.i am going to be very interested in seeing how this administrative committee wrestles with a nm who is so deceitful...that she cant even tell you truthfully what day of the week it is.can you imagine my atty having afield day with that? so..on one hand....you have a model employee...who just got a promotion at the written request of this nm. that nm stated that i was functioning as an incredible resource to my coowrkers and was a huge patient advocate.i then had to pass the scrutiny of a central committe for the hospital who interviewed me and evaluated my level of skill. they too agreed i was a highly skilled ccrn. i was then promoted. numerous coworkers are fine with admitting they had voiced concerns over this nurses lack of skills too and all they got was lip service from the nm.i have other things too...and people too...that can substansiate what actually happened. again....i wouldnt dare put all the proof/info i have on this web site...and have changed some years/dates/circumstances/things to avoid being identifiedi intend to be strictly factual.i...unlike them....intend to only tell the actual events that occurred. i only have to tell the truth.my record at that hospital is great,..nothing but raises and promotions in the last 4 years i have worked there. to tell you how well i functioned and gave 110%...look at my salary.when i started there 4 years ago...my base salary was a tad over 18$ an hour. my base salary is now over 30$ an hr. 12 dollars an hour hike in pay in less than 4 years. they dont give out raises like that unless you have gone above and beyond and have been functioning at a perfect level with strong loyalties to that hospital. like i said...i was a model employee. it is clear cut an etics violation, a code of conduct violation, a nurse pratice act violation, a pt protection act violation...it is illegal. i am still in hopes ...that these 2 ( nurse and nm) were acting without the hospitals administrators and legal depts knowledge. i still...want to believe that this hospital...would never have condoned their behavior if they had knowledge of it.my work hx at that hospital speaks for itself.so i am not worried about it. what i am worried about...is that perhaps...this hospital that i have dedicated so much of myself to in these last few years.....has all these really great "compliance policies/code of ethics/code of conduct/nsg bylaws/antiretaliation policies etc etc etc......and that they are merely words on paper.....that sound really great on paper...but are utterly useless...bc they never intend to ever enforce them. thats my only worry. i will meet with them...and do as you guys say...stick to the facts. unlike those 2....all i have to do is tell what truthfully happened.then its up to them to do the right thing.and...that is my hope.my hope is that they have these policies there for employees like me and that they are not " meaningless words" on a peice of paper.see...i guess you guys are right.i am hopelessly niave.but ya know...if they dont do the right thing...well....thats what they make courts for. thats why these antiretaliation and public protection acts are on the books for. these people in these icu beds....they are not peices of equipment.they are people.with families, friends. they are " someone" to "somebody".they are someones mother, brother, father, sister, child, friend, neighbor.their is someone hoping and praying that they will recover. they place alot of trust in the icu nurses....and when you have someone who is not functioning at a safe and competent level for whatever reason...then we have a duty to speak out. to keep talking until someone listens...bc.....what if that were youre mother, brother, father, sister or child that was lying in that icu bed?
These situations are horrible and hold us as non-humans, and what the hospitals and management do to destroy your career. Nursing in big corporate owned hospitals are absolutely dangerous. Before I returned to nursing in the summer, I had volunteered in one of the "corporate" owned psych hospitals for a year and was encouraged every day to renew my license and go to work there. I did get my license and enrolled in a refresher class.
While I was still at the "corporate psych hospital" I had seen abuse by a certain CNA that that belonged to a union and although nurses complained about it nothing could be done. One evening when I was seeing not only abuse from this CNA, but the first time I met the Nurse Manager of this unit, she was socializing, taking smoke breaks and not monitoring patients. Nothing dangerous just ignoring patients, but she was abusive of me. I have glowing reports at that hospital as a volunteer and I decided that I would just resign. Of course the volunteer coordinator urged me not to, the day nurse manager urged me not to resign, but would I please give them something about it in writing and told me I was doing the right thing. I did the wrong thing and trusted them. Of course, I could not go back to that unit and found I paid a big price.
So when I started my clinicals, from the very beginning, the instructor who was quite old, began the task of breaking me down by telling me I shouldn't apply for these fast paced jobs, I wouldn't be able to keep up with the younger nurses. Every point of my enthusiam I was brought down by this instructor. I was even asked to apply on a certain floor. But the sweet, grandmotherly instructer said, "they were only being nice." Little did I realize that this sweet, motherly, sympathic person, was an act to gain your trust and to get all she could to use against you, I innocently told her about the experience in the other corporate hospital, she indeed used it.
I had reported near the end of my clinicals, the harassment I was experiencing with a certain nurse, realizing it was part of the plan to get me out and she told me that every unit I had been in I was "incompetint" and all my work had to be done over etc. I am assuming that she used the fact that I had made the complaint at the same corporate sister hospital to alert the staff that I was a danger to the hospital or a whistleblower or something of that kind to get the hospital personnel to cooperate with her demise of me.
What others of you are experiencing is all too common. The thing that bothers me the most about nurses, is how they willingly, and cruely, do such things to try completely destroy you. I am very aware of this, but I just don't understand the cruelty. And even though I have been a victim, I understand that this is widespread, but it still hurts.
I have also been working at a psych residental facility part-time where, can I say, "I am loved?" And just got a part-time job that fits me perfectly for the part-time job and hours I want, with RN wages, and only passing meds and doing IVs. So I feel like I have the perfect jobs and pay and hours I want, without the abuse, the stress and backbreaking 12 hour shifts.
I am going to file a discrimination complaint against the instructor with the school I did the refresher program with, even if it results in no disciplinary action for her. I at least want it documented, because this is how they get away with things like this. Many nurses or other employees are not willing to undergo the stress of the horrible emotional impact it takes on one. Or some might not be able to afford to hire an attorney. And as someone stated, if you win, you life will be made a hell.
The bottom line, is extreme profit driven greed by the corporate hospitals and their competion with other "hospital chains." No longer a profession, but an industry. But you know what, I am very happy with my part-time jobs, and I know they have to make a profit, but they are HUMANS.
My best wishes to you. You apparently are a very strong person and I wish you the most and very best. Although, you can be persecuted for something that you have not done, it can be extremely painful and traumatic.
This was a good post I enjoyed reading as well. Its interesting to see how many nurses are going through this or have been. And you are right on target when you say hospitals are an 'Industry' now. Indeed they are...capitalization is a good thing but not at the expense of human beings! Like you, I just dont understand what motivates other nurses to do these cruel things. I have some theories however. And for the most part, I do not think these nurses have any financial kickbacks/gains from this so the motives must be some sort of emotional need; or they are just plain witches! lol! For some NM its power driven aimed at a career goal in higher management if not CEO of Nursing Administration. I know one NM in particular who is the most disgusting brown-noser I have ever witnessed in any job I have had, including the military! However, for those who are not motivated to advance their careers in administration, I really believe they have a deep-seated emotional need that they crave. Just a theory from observation of many, many nurses who are attention seekers and the reasons why. Its really very sad that people do not care who they hurt from the nurse to the patient...that they would be so selfish to say or do anything for an unethical NM or administrator just to get their approval. I have seen it! They are the spies in the hospital...if not henchman.
And so it goes with human nature. I have seen it all and I am sure you have too in psych nursing...though we do get a few of those incidentally in Med-Surg as well.
Lady Charge, surely you must be aware of the prison-camp studies. It is human nature to immitate the captors. "Trustees" ie pets of the bad guys treat fellow prisoners worse than the guards do. Not exactly your enlightened behavior, but built into the wetware of homo-sapiens.
I wonder if it is time yet for a national nurses' strike. PRobably not. I wonder if I will see it in my lifetime. Teachers also get majorly f-ed over as a matter of routine. All of us, women.
Bawk bawk bawk, says my dh. All hen-house doo-doo. Women working together ... sure trouble. The cliques and cabals also exist among men co-workers in the corpo world... anyhwhere you go. Just an extension of sandbox antics.
To TNNurse..... darlin, do not go in there alone. You must have a lawyer advise you before you do. You probably have a wrongful termination suit. I wouldn't even set foot in the g/d place. Just see a good employment lawyer. BEFORE you take them on.
If you cant or don't want legal advice, please strip your mind of ANY EMOTIONAL JABBERING. Everyone knows how crappy they treated you. They know it better than you do, and are probably laughing at how they "got" you. You EXPECTED otherwise and you are FURIOUS. Do you realize you cannot win an argument with an irrational opponent? The best you can do is a "draw." You cannot go back to your job as if it never happened. The only thing you can build a case with, a case that will get you $$$ with which to salve your wounds, is FACTS.
FACTS means neither innuendo, mood, ambiance, tradition, education, intention, assessment nor outcome: FACTS can be used as weapons, by professional FACT-USERS. They are called LAWYERS. I wouldn't begin to do my own dentistry, and you should not begin to do your own legal work.
If you insist on going to this Platinum Level Kangaroo Court, Do not lay EVERYTHING on the table. A lawyer will know what to reveal, what to withhold. Your "proof" your "judgement" your "findings" and your "conclusions" will be fine annecdotal material to give to your Attorney. Give him everything, after you strip out the emotions. (Lawyers love for you to jabber on, while the meter is running, of course, and you are paying, they will listen until the next ice age.)
An employment lawyer is your best bet. You obviously have beaten this "defective person" to a pulp. "They" told you to stop, when they did NOT fire her with your "proof." You didn't stop. They were embarrassed. They weren't doing their jobs, documenting incompetence. They don't want (or didn't want) you to do YOUR job. They only want to have POWER over OTHERS, this power is the heroin of the corporate mind.
In the corporate medical industry, it is ALWAYS, ONLY, and ALL about money.
"They"are lazy. They want to get paid for doing as little as possible. They lack initiative, personal ethics, and plain old gumption. "They" can find fault with anything they chose to pick apart! They're real good at it. They abuse and neglect patients as a matter of course. They get paid for it. The hospital doesn't give a crap about the patients:
It is ALWAYS, ONLY and ALL about money!!
"The hospital" is only brick and mortar. It is run by robots. Robots in groups are known to behave very very badly.
You are not automatic. YOu are not a robot. YOu feel betrayed because you did 110% better than people who get raises and have tenure. You used your education, intellect and physical strength to grind out invention after genius invention in the everyday of nursing care. True, you were rewarded, but you didn't have any POWER.... and now you are being punished.... because they DO have POWER. The rewards and the punishment are meted out by IRRATIONAL robots who are addicted to POWER and CONTROL. YOu mean nothing to them. They spit on you. They wreck your life. They are confident in the belief that you LET THEM.
Take some time.
Don't go back there.
Get a lawyer.
Please listen to an old gray-hair diploma grad from the Cretaceous: this is the tricky part.
When you solve the problem, the root of the problem, you will have changed and outgrown this mess.
Dear Panhandler....thank you. It is hard for me to keep my emotions in check...bc....I truly got f****d in this whole deal. I hadnt thought about it till you brought it up...This NM was probably in fear that my voice would shine the limelight on her inactions. She had been contacted by numerous nurses re: this nurses lack of competency and opted to turn a deaf ear. I was one of the nurses who had a strong enough personality and ethical core to go above and beyond her with my complaints. Straight to the risk mgmt dept. So...she eliminated the problem....me.But...it still doesnt erase the facts.
I am working with a very good atty...who is actually scheduling this meeting. I have a ton of strictly factual proof that I am not posting on this thread to verify my acct of the events. he has provided a fraction of what " I have" to them...and has advised me on what info he wants to "keep under raps" until court..."IF" they dont do the right thing.I have no intention of laying ALL my cards on the table.I can prove...others complained of this nurse.I can prove that she removed certain articles from the patients medical record.I can prove the NM gave me a promotion only weeks before. I can prove that this NM was very proud of having such a highly skilled pt advocate nurse working on her unit(me!)...bc....I have a copy of the letters she wrote to the central committee asking for them to promote me.I can prove less than 48 hrs before she fired me she wrote an email to me thanking me for my dedication. I can prove that she is so deceitful that she lied about what day this alledgedly occurred on ( her own voice- I recorded it). I can prove I was treated far differently than numerous other employees charged with the same thing.Most of them were not even written up...yet...I was fired. I can prove alot more....concrete factual info too.This is just the basics here too.But...yeah...I have no intention of even telling my best friends ALL the info I have. Any other advice?
You know - the tape doesn't HAVE to be admissable to be useful. Sometimes just dropping the bomb of "Oh btw - I have a TAPE of that conversation" is enough to make the other party change their entire attitude. So admissable or not - it's still useful.
In some states only ONE party has to give consent for a convo to be taped - and that one party can be you.
TX,TN,SC,AL,NC,WV and the state in which I now currently live is one of those states.....that states as long as ONE of the 2 parties knows a conversation is being taped...then it is legal and admissable."I" happen to be one of the two parties.So taping my termination meeting is completly legal.I am very much sure the hospital's atty will object when it is introduced into court as evidence. I mean...if I were their atty I wouldnt want to be left hung out to defend a NM that is so deceitful that she cant even tell an employee what day of the week it is without lying.There are many many items on that tape that will be very very damaging to the hospital.She has treated numerous employees accused of the same alleged act that I was fired for ,..so very very differently than me.None were fired....most were never written up.Some of these employees had a lengthy performance problems....unlike me...who has nothing but raises, promotions, excellent evaluations, and letters of praise for going above and beyond for my pts and coworkers. Couple that....with a lying NM....and....how would you like to be the atty left to defend her?
See....this is where I have a problem. I still am hoping that this hospital...when made fully aware of the situation...will rectify it. I am "in hopes" that their policies are not merely meaningless words. I would hate to think I had worked for years in a place that would condone the type of behavior this NM and incompetent nurse has exhibited. That may well be the reality I am left with though...so....no....I have no intention of "giving away" over 30 % of the proof I have.I will provide them with enough info and proof to do their job.But...as far as the great majority of my facts/evidence I have....I wouldnt post them on this thread,...wouldnt tell my bestest friend.....wouldnt even tell my momma....only my atty and god.I might be niave.....but I wasnt born yesterday. I would love to hear from anyone who has ever been involved in any dispute resolution meetings...or administrative review hearings. Id like to hear the good and bad. The more I hear...the more I am inclined to possibly believe it may well be a "kangaroo court".If it is a "kangaroo court"...then....that hospital is in a very ...very...bad position.
i believe you said they bought the incompetent nurse onboard without orientation? not normal practice, different treatment and possibly a violation of the standard regulations? approach this with your concern not only for the patients, but also for the nurse involved. she was set up for failure, may feel overwhelmed, doesn't want to fail the nurse manager who has shown such confidence in hiring her without requiring the normal orientation. she has no proper support or backup; what is the management going to do to help her move to a more appropriate role commensurate with her experience.
even if through witnessing her incompetence you may have grown to detest this nurse do not let them know any of your personal feeling just your professional opinion as a well respected tenure nurse. considering past accolades from the manager you had assumed that she would understand and fully support your views in speaking out about the level of competence shown by the unsatisfactory nurse.
at your hearing expect to be ambushed by a number of managers all berating you at once. this is the tactic, if you hear insults from several people you may just be persuaded to doubt yourself and buy into their crap. the tape record is like another person in the room, but definitely on your side. the other nurse is right it does have an affect on how managers speak to you when they know you are recording everything.
expect it to be demeaning and completely irrational. i was falsely accused of making one of my harassing phone calls during a time that i was documented as being scrubbed into surgery. nope i could not get the circulator to hold the phone while i disturbed the surgeon with my screaming in the middle of his case; i couldn't get her to smash the phone down for me either. the problem is although i am listed on a patient record as the scrub with no access to a phone, it doesn't matter because they have records and i have zip. they have to prove nothing, but i was not permitted to disprove anything. fair right?
to make my life hell my nurse manager reinvented my schedule and reassigned me to a completely different or a full ten minutes walk from my normal work area. there was no orientation to the new or, no mail slot, no hill rom locator and no locker for me in the locker room. why would i need a locker if i was scheduled to me fired as soon as they could coble together a reason? my nurse manager had her office in the new ors and under my old schedule i was rarely in the hospital when she was at work let alone anywhere near her or suites. however once she changed my schedule she was confronted by me every day. so here is this crazy nurse manager at my grievance hearing trying to convince hr that sometimes my harassing phone calls to her would total five hours a day, but for some inexplicable reason she wants to have me closer to hand in her ors on days when she is at work.
i told hr that if i had spent five hours a day tying up the or phones someone would have noticed our complete inability to get any work done, duh! i also said her decision to relocate me under such intimidating conditions was equivalent to inviting your stalker to dinner! were her false accusations incredulous, unsubstantiated garbage, obviously they were. however that didn't really matter as they had me outnumbered they weren't interested in rational explanations; they had come only to wield the rubber stamp. everything that will transpire on that day will make your head spin. as long as you know that this is merely a sordid formality so that the hospital can pretend that they are following procedural guidelines; go humor them, but don't go alone or you may feel devastated.
i asked that the manager to show me one of the supposed "letters of outrage" from the "intimidated" employees; she wouldn't even give me a direct quote of what was written. hr defended her right to suppress this evidence to "protect" the employees who wrote them; like anonymously quoting what they had written placed them in some danger, bullshit! when my union asked the manager for a copy of these letters she said that when she had interviewed the staff she had scribbled her own interview notes in the margins and wanted me to have a clean copy, how considerate. that hospital really needs to front for more stationary it's pathetic! it took me another eight months to get the union to have the labor board force hr to hand over copies of those three letters. meanwhile they were grossly misinterpreted to me with impunity. at my arbitration one of the "outraged" letter writers said she felt threatened by me because i had my "arms folded in an aggressive manor" and my "hands on my hips in an aggressive posture." i was fired for "aggressive" posturing!
there are so many out there with stories as ludicrous as mine and a whole lot worse. they will not have to prove anything, whatever they say is written in stone until they need to change it. they will try and brush off every bit of evidence you produce as if it were a small childs refrigerator art. if you have that tape recorder document this verbally for the record. it goes like this: "for the record management have not entered any documentation to support the validity of their accusation made in that last statement." "for the record, i am entering x paperwork showing..., y letter of recommendation and z memo commending (your name) for outstanding job performance, all in support of my contention here." or something to that effect. do not forget to put together that detailed log of relevant events documenting dates that everything occurred. you will need this as disputes like this go on for years and you must keep your facts straight. let them supply all the inconsistencies with their lies; oh they will lie and lie and lie......
here are some useful sites to check out; contact the whistleblower site asap and follow their advice. also i will have other links and important info i can share when i finally finish my petition. i am still wading through the links that will be imbedded in the petition; in this way i can make the document a genuine resource for people facing similar circumstances. i will let you know when it is up and running. this is a difficult time of year for me, now the five year anniversary of being marched out of the or by security like a criminal. that memory will haunt me for the rest of my life; we show more dignity and respect for people arrested by the police in the uk. it is also coming up for two years since i lost my house in baltimore; christmas will never be a happy time for me again. vindication would start the healing process. hope all goes well and keep your spirits up.
Keysnurse2008
554 Posts
Dear CuteCNA and TsunamiKIm,
I am not actually going to tell you what state I am in I might be in texas,Tennessee,south carolina,North Carolina, Alabama etc etc etc.I was only "born in Tennessee"...hence my name TNNURSE. According to my state's law...as long as ONE of the 2 people being recorded have knowledge that the converstaion is being recorded...then it is legal.Perfectly...100% legal. You guys may be right.I may be niave in thinking that my old hosp[ital is interested in doing the right thing.I too worked in 1of the leading "best hospitals in the US".Stangely enough...you guys said something that really hit home. I was in the top pay scale...and was replaced with a new grad making not quite 1/2 my salary.So maybe the unit manager had screwed up the units budget so bad she needed to "cut costs" and I was just a open opportunity after notifying the risk mgmt dept of her friends perceived incompetence.
I am not allowed to bring anyone to my meeting...so any other insights or advice?