required to work 24hour shift on weekends

grimmy, RN · May 1, 2005

i need to know how many of you also have to work 24hr shifts on weekends.
where you are at,you do not have to be specific, ex: state, city. if it is policy and how long it has been in effect. i am trying to gather statistics, for mona.
i have been working toward making these long shifts illegal. 12hours max. i am a rn, i work in the or, and have for a very long time. i believe that it will be a good retention tool also. as a very young nurse these hours did not bother me, but now 30 years later they do. now i belive that it is not a safe working condition for my patients either. mona believes that after 12hours a nurse should have an 8 hour rest period. management just doesn't see it that way.
please respond so i can send my info to congress.

this sounds incredibly dangerous for the patient, your license, and the facility's liability. i've never seen this, and i'd never agree to it. i'd check your state's labor laws (your state.gov) and find out what is legal and what is not. worst case scenario, contact an attorney and find out what your true obligations are. ]

unknown99, BSN, RN · May 1, 2005

In the state of Ohio, it is illegal for someone to work more than 20 hours straight without 8 hours rest/ personal time off.

shodobe · May 2, 2005

I have had to work very long hours on the weekends over many years. Sometimes 16-20 hours. What you are suggesting is more call time a week. If one is expected to take call two times aweek with your no more than so many hours in a 24 hour period someone has to take up the slack. So, who is this person going to be? I think it would be one of your co-workers who after awhile would get tired of taking more call than required. In all my years I have never heard of this being an issue. When I signed up to be an OR nurse, call was a stipulation of working in the department. Whether it as 8, 16 or 24 hours, you were expected to fulfill your obligation. We now take 48 hour straight call on the weekends and if you don't like it, look for another job! Yes, I get tired sometimes on long weekends and I just slow down to my pace to get things done,who cares what the surgeons want! I also realize there are facilities around the country that have very busy weekends. My suggestion would be to split call hours, if the staff size allows it. If you go into a situation where you know there will be long call hours, maybe go somewhere else because I hate it when new people come in and down the road start to change things just for their benefit. MIke

k_cole21 · May 2, 2005

call hours? or worked hours? there's a difference!

Chrislynn2003 · May 3, 2005

On Sundays we don't have staffing, so 2 people must be on call for 24 hours. 12 or 15 hours have been worked consecutively on a Sunday with no breaks/lunch, but it's rare. During the week, we are required to take call 11p-7a cause we don't staff those hours. And if you have to come into work during the night, you are still required to work the next day.

Christine

callbabe · May 3, 2005

call hours? or worked hours? there's a difference!

I am quite certain that I know the difference. I am not sure you do.

If you are on at 7a to 7a on a sat or sun, and work more than 12 you should have relief. The institution where I work has progressively gotten better over the years, I use to cover from 1800 on friday until 0700 on Monday morning.

Then they gave fridays to someone else. Then there is the weekend 48 hours.

Now we have to cover 24 hours which is still to much. We are a trauma center, and sometimes run 2-3 rooms.We do not run a regular staff on weekends either.

We have 2 nurses, 2 techs on, and sometimes have to call extra staff in.

I have been working closely with my state nursing organization, specifically safe nurse practice. I believe 12 hours shifts will be here shortly. Or atleast I hope so. Mike you sound like you hate lazy nurses, me to except I am not one of them. I have worked long and hard over the years, and am just trying to make things better for future nurses.

shodobe · May 3, 2005

I am talking WORKED hours. There is a difference, but there are those who see no difference. 48 hours of CALL hours is nothing unless you put in alot of WORKED hours. I have never once felt there was a problem with my work performance due to long hours and this is over 28 years and a LOT of WORKED call time. Mike

suzanne4, RN · May 3, 2005

Most weekend call is 24 hours at a majority of facilities.............Sometimes you will get no cases, and at other times you may be there for 20 hours. Works the same in PACUs also.................

I trained back in the time that Mike did, and have worked the same type of hours for years..............never a problem with it..............

callbabe · May 3, 2005

I am talking WORKED hours. There is a difference, but there are those who see no difference. 48 hours of CALL hours is nothing unless you put in alot of WORKED hours. I have never once felt there was a problem with my work performance due to long hours and this is over 28 years and a LOT of WORKED call time. Mike

How do you feel physically after working 16-18-24 hours my longest was 28 in a row, and I was looking at another 20 hours possible. I just do not want to do it anymore, and yes your pts and mine deserve someone rested taking care of them. This is FYI my 31st year.

CHATSDALE · May 3, 2005

two shifts [16 hrs] is the legal maximum in La.. i believe that is the maximum that the body will deliver anything approaching efficient care

some facilities have rooms in er where a md or nurse can sack out during a unemergency period..but on a med surg floor the max is 16

stevierae · May 3, 2005

I am talking WORKED hours. There is a difference, but there are those who see no difference. 48 hours of CALL hours is nothing unless you put in alot of WORKED hours. I have never once felt there was a problem with my work performance due to long hours and this is over 28 years and a LOT of WORKED call time. Mike

Yeah; same here--when I started in the O.R. as a 27 year old nurse in '81, (before that I was a Navy Corpsman, working E.R. and O.R., when we worked looooong, tough hours and didn't get such a thing as on call, call in, or even overtime pay--we had to BE there, and we were usually working--no down time was allowed. If we had a free second, there was someone yelling at us, "You people have nothing to do? I'll FIND you something to do!!!)

Now, our O.R. call (in civilian life, as nurses) started on Friday night at 2300 and ended at 7 a.m. Monday morning---at which time you, if you were day shift, (I was) started your day shift. If it happened that you were still there from being called in during Sunday night, and had been there over 3 hours (our minimum guaranteed call-in hours) that meant your pay switched from time and a half with shift differential to your regular day rate. That was kind of a drag.

Usually, if you wanted to go home, and there were enough people, you could take a "drop" day or vacation day, or go home after all lunch reliefs had been covered and the schedule was winding down, however, most people toughed it out--we were younger then, and snapped back easily. Also, we didn't want to lose a day's pay if we could avoid it.

A lot of us split shifts--i.e., you took the first 12 hours, and gave the rest to a friend who wanted it. They would do the same for you when it was their call weekend, if you wanted 12 hours (or less--you can take 2, 4, 6, or even 1--whatever you choose to cover for them.)

It all balances out, usually---sure, you spend weekends from hell where you do trauma after trauma after trauma and it's almost to the point where you and the rest of the crew, when you hear about another "possible" trauma, start praying to God that that "possible" trauma doesn't make it to the OR (or even to the ER, if said trauma is enroute via ambulance.) Then you are all horrified that you even thought such a thing--but it's sheer exhaustion making you not think clearly, and making you "bargain" with God---"PLEASE GOD!!!! NO MORE!!!! WE'RE ON OUR KNEES HERE, GOD!!!!!" YOU'RE KILLIN' US, GOD!!!

But, the patient makes it to the O.R. (God had other plans for him, and you, apparently) and you all pull together with a lot of coffee and your own adrenaline, or endorphins, or something--and you feel great that you've saved yet another life.

Of course, then you have an entire weekend where you don't get called even ONCE--collecting half-time plus shift differential (wherever I've worked, at least--not all hospitals.) Of course, that was back in the days where surgeons were chastised for doing elective surgery utilizing the call crew (and quite rightly---our purpose is for EMERGENCIES.) Sadly, those days seem to have gone by the wayside, and management allows--even encourages--this practice--therefore, you are there all weekend doing nonsense elective cases that should have been scheduled appropriately during regular hours. I only hope that management gets sued the first time (actually, I am certain it's happened) a crani for evacuation of an epidural hematoma or a ruptured AAA gets delayed because the emergency OR crew was tied up doing an elective lap chole for a surgeon who didn't want to wait to do it as an "add-on" on Monday.

After a while, (it was when I turned 30, but I stuck it out until I was about 37) call gets to be such an infringement on your personal time--and your sleep--that no amount of money is enough. Then you give your call away--as much of it as you can get takers for. There is always a new crop of younger nurses and techs who WANT call.

Can't you find willing people to split up part of your call with, callbabe? I can't imagine that management cares one way or another who covers the hours, as long as they are covered. Of course, that means you all need to BOTH scrub and circulate--and be proficient in whatever comes through the doors--and, this, too, seems to be a lost skill. The problem with getting hours covered occurs when people specialize in only one service--meaning, if you do ONLY GYN, then you must find ANOTHER GYN nurse to cover for you. If you ONLY circulate, then you can't switch call with a tech or another RN who prefers to scrub when she's on call. Possibilities to cover your call become very slim. We often refer to this conundrum as a "clusterf***." The people who limit themselves to one specialty area really have painted themselves into a corner.

Also, don't let the surgeons dictate how fast you move. YOU--the circulator-- are in charge of the room. YOU tell THEM you are breaking for lunch, coffee, an hour's break to put your feet up, whatever--as long as you need between cases--and DO it. Don't let them bully you. Of course, if you are doing multiple traumas, you have to hustle, but I suspect you are doing at least a few elective cases. Make them wait. The patient won't suffer----really, he or she could/should probably wait to be scheduled electively in the next week or even month. Don't be a martyr. If management had any backbone, they'd put a stop to elective cases on weekends, period.

Boy, I am starting to feel REALLY old--and I am only 51. What's with these young folks of today, Shodobe? Things just ain't like they used to be, LOL...

One thing I will say: My easiest, most boring day as a Vietnam era corpsman was far, far more challenging--and far tougher-- than my absolute toughest day as an RN. When I became an O.R. nurse, I was absolutely thrilled that I was going to get paid MORE money for doing LESS work--and get BREAKS--and, my goodness, get paid half time--plus shift differential---just for carrying a beeper!!!!!!!--and a minimum of 3 hours at time and a half, plus shift differential, even if we got called in and anesthesia cancelled the case due either to it being elective, (surgeon chastised severely, and written up) or the patient was a poor anesthetic risk and needed a further work up (to be done during normal working hours.) Dang, sometimes I still can't believe my good fortune!