BSN vs. Associates - page 3

I keep reading the topic about Dying career. I keep reading seeing what WE CAN DO. And what's brought up time and time again is associate nurses putting down bachelors and vice a versa. I thought... Read More

  1. by   Naomi, RN
    I am going to reply in a different tangent. I too am an ADN R.N., and because of pre reqs. it took me almost 4 years to get that degree. I am now in the last semester of an RN to BSN program, and of course completing my Management and Leadership coursework. Just today there was a lively discussion in class about 2 year vs. 4 year degrees, the lack of self-esteem, the catagorization us as basic labor (dont get ruffled over the terminology). By continuing the debate we are once again devided and conquered. There is a study being performed in California (or was to be performed, I see if it was) on how to make Nursing programs more accessible and less time consuming, especially for those matriculating from 2 year to 4 year program. This is another obstacle to keep nurses infighting and defending their 2 year degrees. I am not putting them down, but what about us as professionals, no MDs, Accts., Lawyers, etc. practice with a 2 year degree. We are sorely underrepresented in our own professional organizations and this lead to a depletion of power. It also leaved us looking like laborers, even the managers with BSNs. We do not have the power that professional unity would lend to us. **Please see Leaving Management thread!
  2. by   Onenurse
    This is a very interesting discussion.
    I currently work with 40 other nurses,and of course have worked with hundreds in the past-- and don't really take note of "what degree" someone has. I take note of "what apparent skills" (including technical/management/interpersonal) that person has. My experience has given me what I have, way beyond what you may know of me if you only knew :diploma. What would I be saying if I were BSN? I hope the same thing. Seems the profession must go toward differentiating licenses, but with the current "shortage" -along with that one in the "not too distant" past, will that ever be reality? This topic has been uppermost in my mind, as my current "boss" is in a doctorate program--and is a huge fan of continuous advancement of education. Thank you everyone for this discussion.
  3. by   Tara
    I agree the degree doesn't make the nurse. Different degrees are meant for different health care goals. Working a floor, managing patient care, managing a team of health care providers and the philosophy of heath care managment. Old topic.... If the specific degree is the debate then maybe we should all have our master? I don't think so.
    If you can pass the boards and obtain your registration, you have the basics. Enhancing that skill is individual prefernce.
  4. by   4students
    Hi Everybody!!!!
    I have a unique view on this dilemma. I have been in the nursing field for ten years, all of which has been at the LVN level of care. Currently I am attending the LVN to BSN bridge program, offered at Sonoma State University in California, and will graduate this May. The perspective I have to offer on this issue is that I too have worked with many nurses with various levels of degrees or certifications obtained from various institutions of learning. The one facet I have learned about most people is that they bring their own personal agenda with them while they are getting their education in nursing and after becoming a nurse regardless of what level of education they eventually receive. If a person enters this profession for the money then you have a nurse that will only work for a paycheck and watch the clock more than the patient. On the other hand, if a person enters this profession to help others then you have a person that will work FOR THE PATIENT. That is what it all comes down to anyways, the patient.

    Many of you are also correct in one aspect; the degree that hangs on the wall does not make the nurse, but I also think that each of us must not stop and convince ourselves that we have learned everything there is about this profession. Information becomes outdated the same as technology does and we all need to keep up the changes. Because after all of the education a person may have or all of the experience obtained; it is the person's choice to either shine or fade away.

    An ancient proverb states, "A tiger wears its stripes on the outside, a person wears theirs on the inside", I believe this is the mindset we all need towards this issue.

  5. by   DIDI
    hey people am I in the wrong program? I've been a LPN alot of yrs, I've loved my {job} and all it intails. I have almost finished my LPN to RN and I am proud to be a NURSE.Dare I tell you all how long I went to school. We all know letters behind a name don't make the nurse or person. As has been stated so many times {IT TAKES ALL KINDS TO MAKE THIS WORLD] all kinds of people and nurses. We can be BOTH//DI
  6. by   jimbob
    Hey guys, how's everyone?
    Lively debate going on here, no? I have little to add to the mindmelding going on because I have been beating my head against a very similar brick wall here in NZ of late.

    I have been through several changes in my 18 or so years as an RN - and everytime I experience the "old school" nurses beating up on the "new grads" as if they are doing something weird. But let's face it, we'd all like to be part of the new movement, wouldn't we? So after many years I went back to school to train in a Bachelor course for nurses - and now I 've had to put up with the flak

    Anyway, Florence Nightingale did us no favours - and we can all stop blaming her. The only reason it carries on being a problem for nurses is because we allow ourselves to be brow beaten into thinking that for a nurse to ask for fiscal or material recognition for what s/he does is tantamount to bespoiling the bible. Well, duuuur - wrong. We are a bunch of highly skilled and trained professionals (even if my spelling is crappy - it's more typos than anything, I swear) and we should not be apologising for expecting to be paid like the other "professionals" that operate in any community.

    Go on - go out there and make your employer recognise and value you as a health professional - I dare you!!!
  7. by   maikranz
    Greetings, fellow scrubs!
    It's a glorious day here in the great state of NC.
    I would encourage all of you to join your professional
    organizations and be active, continue to educate yourselves,
    be it at seminars, with CEUs, at a continuing ed. class at a local
    college or school, and support ourselves as women and men, in nursing.
    Encourage the new graduates coming on board in the next few months.
    Did you know that the majority of nursing students entered the
    profession because of a NURSE! Be a positive role-model for a new
    one. You are a mentor whether or not you realize it--mentoring is nothing more difficult than taking the time to nurture someone in the ways and culture of
    the profession. I've been a nurse for more than 23 YEARS and I still
    learn from all the young that come my way. It doesn't take but a
    "let me help you with that" to gain a friend/co-worker for life.
    Remember how it was when you all started working--compassion, my friends and a
    healthy dose of understanding.
    Advocate for each other, my friends, don't fight each other.
  8. by   ruby mcbride
    What a hot topic you have. This debate has been going on since I have been a nurse. I worked at a facility where you had to have a BSN or MSN to be in management, and currently work at a gen'l hospital where the charge nurses must have a BSN, or working on one. The nurses that have tenure, with no BSN have been allowed to remain in their position. I think the BSN nurse learns more management skills and has some limited knowledge about budgets, etc., where the ADN does not. Maturity, attitude and people skills play a large part into being a successful manager. I have known MSN nurses that should be working in an isolated position instead of working with staff, and some ADN nurses that have excellant nursing and people skills.
  9. by   nurseyperson
    Hello from Kansas...with another perspective on this issue. As we are mostly a Rural state, things are different from large cities. The closest BSN program is about 120 miles away!!! Consider that commute!!! Consequently, most of the nurses around here are ADN, except the ones who moved into the area from somewhere else (Very few) or the ones who got their "virtual education" after their ADN. We also have a ARNP program herein our small town, but most started with an ADN. There are people here who have to drive AT LEAST 100 miles a day to go to nursing school, hardly ever seeing their family. You know we have a nursing shortage. Think if a BSN was mandatory. There are many other states like Kansas...well, talk about a Shortage!!!

    I agree with most of the posts is not the initials that make the nurse, it is what they have inside and what they give to their patients. We all have to pass the same state boards. Everyone here knows how much we all learned after we got out of school...a lot more than IN school, I believe. If everyone continues to learn and grown in our PROFESSION, be it an advanced degree or CEUs, Certifications, etc, there should be no difference in the Bedside nursing that is the basis of our profession. I believe if you want to be in management, an advanced degree is probably best, but it all depends on the person and where you work.
  10. by   HoJo
    Ok, first let me just say that I'm no expert on the topic, but here are my observations of this whole issue.

    If you look back on the history of nursing you can see that each time there has been a nursing shortage there has been a new type of degree created to coincide with the shortages.

    First there was the Diploma to deal with the very early shortages. Then came the ADN during 70's and 80's. Now were in 2000 and there is another shortage upon us and we're running out of nurses again.

    Here's my main reason why I feel we will need more BSN nurses for the future. First of all the nursing environment is changing. More and more we're seeing nurses in home care. We will need BSN nurses to look at the patients wholistically and not just at their primary health problems. No disrespect to ADN nurses but I do not feel that an ADN school of nursing adequately prepares their students to this type of environment. They are more suited for the hospital and were simply not taught the knowledge and material to truly look at the patient wholistically like the BSN schools teach.

    Another point that I might add is that with the "graying of America" we will need more BSN nurses in the near future especially in home care. This is because of the trend in healthcare today. More patients are being discharged early, whereas before they would've spent more time in the hospital to receive complicated care. Also insurance companies are helping to dictate this policy and its only going to get worse before it gets better.

    Another thing which I have observed is that the younger ADN nurses are not quite prepared mentally. What I mean by this is that I just think that some of the fresh ADN students lack the level of maturity for the profession of nursing. Two extra years make a difference and the BSN nurses seem more mature. Of course this changes with experience. What I'm saying is that right after ADN nursing school some nurses lack maturity.

    Also as the complexity of the patient goes up (as it is). And the nurse/client ratio goes up (as it is). There is a need for more qualified BSN nurses because they are taught tasks such as delegating responsibility and collaborating on a multidiciplinary level.

    Anyway I feel that I have some pretty valid points.

    Good discussion.
  11. by   RNkat
    I'm a diploma educated RN and the more disheartened I get with nursing situations (overwork for measly pay in some cases) the more I don't want to get my "BSN". Don't get me wrong, I do believe we, as a profession, should require higher education but why a BSN? I would much rather get my degree in something else and take advantage of some of the post basic education courses. ie: critical care, gerontology etc. Anyone else feel this way?
  12. by   Naomi, RN
    RNKat has a good point...Higher education in another area of interest or need would certainly be a good alternative to the BSN.
    Business, Gerontology, Sciences, Gender Studies, etc. are all worthwhile higher degrees to have and the diversity in education would lead to better nurses. I am in a RN to BSN program and quite frankly, I get very tired of the narrow view of the world from inside a nursing program.

    We as nurses need a more complex and diversified path of education to be well rounded enough to take on roles such as nurse managers, home care, case management, parish nursing, community and public health...the list goes on and on...

    I do not regret my decision to continue on and get my BSN, I wanted to have a baccalaureate degree....personal pride in the professionalism of our carrer I guess.
    But I know that there are going to be many courses that will be needed after this is all over to be as well rounded as I should be for the future.

    Naomi, RN
  13. by   4students
    just a test