Regarding the Future of Legal Nursing as viewed in Spokane, Washington

Specialties Legal

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Legal Nurses be forewarned- here in Spokane (not the highest paid region of the country), an temp agency called "Provisional Staffing", just had an ad in Sunday's paper for a law firm, who was looking for an RN/LPN to read review medical records, be able to sort our issues with medical history for clients, etc. When I inquired about the job on Monday morning (9:30 AM), I was told that the job was already filled. I asked what the pay was, and I was told that the pay was $14- 16 an hour!!

Now, Legal Nurses, do you see a problem in the future if this agency decides to expand its Legal Nurse work force, and markets more to lawyers? Why would a law firm pay an independant contractor $100 + an hour to review medical records, research, if they can hire this agency to get nurses to work for $14- 16 an hour?

My educated guess, is that the person who got the job was not an experienced legal nurse, but a wannabe, who just wanted to use his/her nursing knowledge at an easier job than bedside nursing (this was a part-time in house position). This has cast a huge chill in my perception of continuing as an independant legal nurse, and the future of the profession.

Lawyers in Spokane are as cheap as the hospitals, and want experienced legal nurses with alot of clinical experience, but cringe at the thought of paying a professional wage for it. They think nothing of paying doctors to review cases for $300 and hour, but do not think that they should pay nurses a salary commensurate with the years of experience, expertise, and education, etc., that bring as much to their practice as doctors do.

Obviously, I will have to sit and watch, how this pans out. But I am not hopeful for the future of Legal Nursing. We are becoming a dime a dozen, and it is getting harder to get a decent amount of work. I am open to suggestion. I will be happy to send the ad to anyone who is interested in looking at it.

Lindarn, RN, BSN, CCRN

Spokane, Washington

Specializes in Hospice, Med Surg, Long Term.

There will always be those people out there who are so spendthrifty that they will pay only what is necessary to get the bare minimum, and they will get what they pay for. :D And there will always be those people out there who will sell themselves for next to nothing, and they get little more. It all comes out in the wash. As for the rest of us..... we have a vision to set and accomplish our goals.....with quality. It is a dog eat dog world, and we don't accomplish goals by letting people walk on us! If the world wants quality, they can pay for it! And there are plenty of people who only want quality, and are willing to pay for it. I choose to provide the best service I am capable of, and I choose to deal with people who appreciate the quality that I offer. :smiley_abSo world, if you choose to sell yourself short......enjoy the fruits of your labor. Because those of us who expect to be compensated for what we're worth, are going to enjoy the fruits of our labors, too! :cheers:

gemini81sg, heck I was not talking about being afraid to call at 3 a.m. I work day shift. It is more like 3 in the afternoon! THAT is how bad this is. Just yesterday I heard a physician say, "the next 4 times you think about calling me, don't." This was not because the called him.

And I would have said, "Well, I must call when I must call, Doctor. You know that. You wouldn't want to lose a patient or wind up in court because you told me not to call you, would you?" He'd have been totally speechless, I guarantee.

I realize that this posting is old, but I think that the original posting issue was forgotten. I don't believe that the job that the original poster was unable to apply for was taken by an RN. The post was for an RN/LPN. Think about it - how many RNs would quit their hospital job to work for $14/hr? Anytime that I have looked into a job that was looking for EITHER an RN/LPN, RN/LPN/MA or some combo of variously licensed or certificate people - they ALWAYS are going to offer low pay. Yes, they would like an RN if they can get one for half salary but they are willing to take a medical assistant if that is the only person willing to work for such a low salary.

Specializes in Acute Med-Surg.

Good point.

Specializes in Post Anesthesia.

I wonder what the job entailed. Was the nurse supposed to use professional judgement to evaluate the patients care according to "standard of practice" eather for or against malpractice or was it purely a clerical position of cross checking ordered tests/treatments/meds. to the billed services. The later I would be willing to do for $15./hr; the former I would want professional wages. Could there have been a per chart/ per case compensation in addition to the hourly wage? I can't imaginge even a legal nurse "wanabe" accepting such poor wages if the job required professional judgement.

Specializes in Med-Surg/Peds/O.R./Legal/cardiology.
Hello all,

I am an RN, I am a lawyer. I've worked for healthcare facilities, I've worked for attorneys. And here is what I know to be true.

1. People providing eduction (nursing schools, law schools, legal nurse consultant trainers) are in the BUSINESS of promoting their educational enterprises. How you pay for it is your problem and none of them guarantees that with the training/education you've paid them for that you will find employment at an enhanced/elevated wage.

2. Attorneys are probably even more cost-conscious than healthcare facilities when employing contract employees (that would be you, contracting as a nursing consultant, to review medical records, provide advice concerning the case, and perhaps testifying as an expert witness). (Healthcare facilities pay a pretty penny for contract employees, aka "traveling nurses").

3. Most attorneys (and certainly litigation attorneys) are VERY SKILLED negotiators. If you think you can squeeze extra $ out of them without having some unique skill, you're kidding yourself.

4. Yes, physicians who are experts on litigation cases get paid quite well. And that's because you cannot put on a case without one, and because physicians make a lot more $ than RNs working in healthcare. I hear new radiologists fresh out of training are getting a starting salary of around $250K/yr.

5. Is it fair that this position was filled by a "wannabe" willing to work for less than RN healthcare wages? Well, not if you're envisioning yourself making lots of $ with your newly-paid for legal nurse consultant training, but since I don't foresee that designation having much of an impact on the American Trial Attorneys' membership, you should evaluate what effect "market forces" will have on your new "specialty."

The only RNs I know making decent $ doing legal work are the nurse attorneys or nurse paralegals who can stand to work with/for attorneys. And there few of those jobs available compared to the number of RN jobs. Again--market forces.

So before you shell out good $ for ANY training or education program, due diligence calls for thoroughly investing the realistic employment opportunities to be had with such training. And if you ONLY consider what the program's personnel are telling you, you do not have an accurate assessment.

HollyVK, RN, BSN, JD

(who has had to sue attorneys she's done work for in order to get paid--another problem you generally don't have with healthcare providers)

hollyvk thank you for the reality check! I'm just starting out as a certified LNC and needed the helpful hints!;)
Specializes in Hospice, Med Surg, Long Term.

9-8-2007

The truth of the matter is this - Nurses do not band together and support each other. If we ALL stood together, UNITED, the conditions in which we work would change. Instead, most nurses so afraid for their jobs to stand up for what we deserve. Ladies and gentlemen - WE are the backbone of healthcare and are treated like grunts by those in charge. There is no respect given to us as individuals or as professionals. When will we ALL wake up and realize our worth? If you know your worth, you will collect on it - one way or another and that is why LNC's will succeed, and in the degree in which we choose.

a21chdchic

I wonder what the job entailed. Was the nurse supposed to use professional judgement to evaluate the patients care according to "standard of practice" eather for or against malpractice or was it purely a clerical position of cross checking ordered tests/treatments/meds. to the billed services. The later I would be willing to do for $15./hr; the former I would want professional wages. Could there have been a per chart/ per case compensation in addition to the hourly wage? I can't imaginge even a legal nurse "wanabe" accepting such poor wages if the job required professional judgement.

You can't imagine it, because you never worked in Spokane, Washington. There are three schools of nursing here, and nurses are treated as such. I just applied for a job with the Health Department, and was offered $18.00 and hour. HS dropout wages are the norm here.

Lindarn, RN, BSN, CCRN

Spokane, Washington

Specializes in last 10 yrs in busy ER'S.

I am new to this site and finding some of these messages very entertaining. I dont know what type of nursing these Nurses that you refer to as typical co-dependents are practicing, but they need to get with the times. I have worked in very busy ER'S for >10 yrs and most of the nurses that I have worked with are at the very least assertive. IF they dont start out that way, they end up that way. We are considered a very integral part of the team in the ER setting, oftentimes knowing farmore than the new residents that are giving the orders. We dont get up for doctors to sit, moreso we tell them to get out of our chair!! We function with much autonomy and are respected by even the seasoned ER attendings. If you dont respect yourself and your own knowledge, how can you expect those around you to respect you? If in an emergency situation, there are drs yelling out multiple orders, it doesnt mean alot unless there are teamplaying nurses around them that are prepared to deliver the orders quickly and make them look good.If you dont function in a setting where you feel that you are respected for your profession, it is never too late to change it.

Specializes in Hospice, Med Surg, Long Term.

One point on convincing an attorney why you're worth what you're asking him/her to pay for-----you have to believe yourself that your are worth it, and be confident in that belief.

Basically, it is like any other thing that you are money or to be paid for.

I am not experienced in LNC, I am not yet certified. But I am very much confident in my abilities as both an individual, and as a professional nurse. I think if you are both and have good communication skills, you can do anything you set your mind to doing----both as an individual and as a professional.:smiley_abSo, You Go, Girl!!!

Specializes in Med/Surg/Tele, Hem/Onc, BMT.

I believe that many attorneys do not appreciate what an experienced nurse brings to the table. I started out as an in house LNC for a very low wage to get my foot in the door. It was a learning experience for all involved.

I was actually asked during my interview if I could "write a sentance". I am thankful I took the position. I believe the attorneys are too. We now work together on different terms. I am now an independent contractor and I am very pleased with the arrangement.

I have been offered a chance, by an agency, to work on MR review for a class action pharma suit (long term project). I have some lnc background, but wondering if this is a good way to get addtl training?

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