"LPNs should be done away with altogether"

[missjennmb]

As an offshoot to the News article about nursing education, an opinion was brought to the board that LPNs are not adequately prepared to care for patients, and that their education is not strenuous like an RN program is. Having been in the field for awhile, what is your opinion on the differences between LPNs and RNs, other than the legally different aspects (LPNs cannot do initial assessments or IVs in my state for instance)

I'm not looking to start trouble, but rather discuss the topic in an area other than an unrelated thread.

Differences in LPNs vs RNs (educationally, functionally, intellectually)

Best way to combat any possible negatives of the above

Advice for an LPN student (who is too far through her program to just throw it out and start over in an RN program - already applied for an LPN to RN program starting Jan 2010)

Should I really expect to run into attitudes in the workplace about my not being worthwhile as an employee and a care provider because I chose the path that I have? How do you handle it if you do?

There is a local small rural hospital that pays incredibly well for LPNs right out of school and who has been trying very hard to recruit us during clinicals... am I going to be inequipped to care for patients there because of my education? I would never want to get into a situation where patient care was compromised because my education was lacking somehow...

Jennifer

~slightly confused and frustrated LPN student

[anniv91106]

There is an RN at the facility where I work who disagreed with me on a staffing decison. We had an employee call in for their shift and had to be replaced. Calls were made and a replacement was not found. Someone currently working would have to be mandated to stay over. Our facility is a union facility and I am a Union Steward; I am also an LPN. I was trying to explain to her that by not following the rules in the contract I would be forced to file a greivance to represent the employees effected. She looked at me and said "too bad". I was assigned to one wing in the facility and she the other. The wing I was assigned to put me in charge of the whole building for the weekend. I reminded her of this and in front of residents, employees and VISITORS to the building--"Jane Doe is staying and that is the end of all of this. That is why I have RN after my name and am not some stupid little LPN". I was furious. The difference in our job descriptions is only IV insertion and IV push meds. That is the only difference oh that and $12 an hour. Justice was served for the employee who was wronged with a grievance that gave them their lost wages and she got nothing for her behavior! I may be an LPN but I am an LPN who has 20 years as a CENA before I became an LPN. We are valuable members of any patient care team!

Are the RN's at your facility in a union?

[Practicalone, LPN]

I say BS... There are many LPN's out there that know just as much if not more than ADRN's & RN's. Hospitals around where I live did stop hiring LPN's for a while, but they soon came to realize that the LPN's were just a valuable as the RN's. Yes as LPN's we get paid less, but that doesn't mean that we aren't capable of doing the same job, with a few exceptions. depending on the State you live in also. I can do just about everything an RN can, I just have to know my scope of practice.

[annlewis]

LPN's who work in LTC are good geriatric nurses. I welcome any RN who has been working in hospital setting to try and come over and do our job. I bet the RN would be down on her knees begging for help from the LPN within the first hour on the job.

[simplenurse07]

I am a Lpn and have been for 6 years but I started from the bottom of the list and worked up to Lpn. I am planning to transition into Rn school and get a higher education in the nursing field. I was trained by Lpn's who have worked over 30 years as one and they were the preceptors in the hospital for both Lpn and Rn's. I am proud to be working as a Lpn and I can and have done everything a Rn has done except Chemotherapy. In Ga there is no limit to what you can do and what position you can hold if you got the correct training. Accomplishing this goal for me was a step closer to where God wants me to be, there are some who can not make it this far but for us who do we need to be glad that we have and be proud of our accomplishments. I love being a Lpn and I love the clinical skills I possess and I love to see myself training Rn's to place a foley, Int's, NG tubes and ect..! Having such a strong clinical background is great. I know that becoming a Rn will help the pay increase and broaden my choice of fields and positions in certain facilities but I owe it all to my school of Lpn when comes to my clinical and critical thinking skills.

[simplenurse07]

I say BS... There are many LPN's out there that know just as much if not more than ADRN's & RN's. Hospitals around where I live did stop hiring LPN's for a while, but they soon came to realize that the LPN's were just a valuable as the RN's. Yes as LPN's we get paid less, but that doesn't mean that we aren't capable of doing the same job, with a few exceptions. depending on the State you live in also. I can do just about everything an RN can, I just have to know my scope of practice.

This is true we can do just about everything a Rn does and yes the pay is less but we are still a very big asset to the nursing field.

[nursezoey]

I agree. I went to school in the Philippines and over there we were even allowed to work in the operating room and delivery room. I was a scrub nurse in the philippines as an LVN. I sincerely believe there are a lot of good LVN's who's had a wealth of experience.

My facility is also trying to get rid of lvn's but I do not think they could do without lvn's altogether. Major difference is lvn's cannot do head to toe assessment; but at the end of the day. We do the same thing; caring for all!

[triciab123]

i don't know who anyone is trying to kid. Everyone who has ever worked in a hospital or nursing home knows that LPNS do everything RNs do and often times much more than they do. Whens the last time a LPN didn't assess their patient? really? We all know LPNS that can run circles around Any RN. There are good LPNs and there are good RNs. Its that simple. Most NURSES today are only there for the money. Few have little work ethic or true compassion for the field. Thats my opinion. Thats what I see of the nurses that come and go. I always try to stress to the nursing students that they always have to give 100% and at the end of the day they will be a better person for it. Honestly, in todays economy, the welfare system and unemployment are pushing people thru nursing school and what you end up with is a person who did factory work for 15 years, lost their job and were offered a opportunity for schoolong, accepted it and really never had any desire to be a nurse. But hey ! The pays good! Our patients are never going to benefit from this and the nurses who are good, who are looking for work are now out their in a tighter market because there are so many of us. Its really sad...... thats just how I see it.

[ann945n, RN]

There is no doubt LPN's are hard workers, skilled, and know their stuff. I was an LPN before becoming an RN and thought I did just the same job as an RN and knew the same things they did. Boy was I wrong. Once I got my RN I saw what education I was missing. You don't know what you don't know. There is a reason pay goes up with education. I am not saying LPN's aren't needed but there is a difference at the RN level. Just the same, I would never say a RN could do a NP's job.

[romie]

I'm a BSN prepared RN with a Masters in an outside field. There is one nurse who I respect above all but five other nurses and she is an LPN. She gives an awesome, thorough report, she really cares about the patient, she knows the docs, she knows her pharm, her patho and she is super cool and nice to the newbies. I trust her. Her name is Donna. I know when Donna gives me report, it will be thorough, she has covered all of her bases and when I assess the patient, they will be clean, lines and IVs are labeled, consults are contacted, I know from Donna what labs, test, events are coming up and how to deal with Dr. #$@#%. She is an assest to our patients and I have learned so much from her. I wish all nurses, LPNs and RNs and NPs were as good as her.

[romie]

Dorky hospital policy says Donna can't do IVP meds. She comes to me and says, "I think Mr. Jones needs some morphine, can you do it for me?" Like the good sport she is. I turn to Donna and say, " You give it, you know him better than me and have been doing this longer than me. I'll sign off on it. I got your back you have mine." Am I crazy? Mind you, I wouldn't do this with just any LPN or RN for that matter.

[jadelpn, LPN, EMT-B]

With all due respect, yes that is CRAZY!!! I don't care how good of an LPN Donna is, it is NOT in her scope to push an IV med, EVER. Say that Mr. Jones promptly passes after the morphine push. Donna needs to call a code. You have not had time to sign the med. You both lose license. Part of being a good LPN is knowing and following one's scope. A better way would be for Donna to put the morphine in a 50cc bag and run it through the pump should you or any other RN be too busy to push the med. It is my understanding that IVP meds are most state licensing policies and not just facility policies.

[romie]

Your argument is nill. My state RN law clearly states that I can delegate to a professional who I have evaluated and who has a returned demonstration of safe practice. Jeezus! I have a Masters degree and I am not going to argue with with a diploma prepared nurse about my ability to delegate to Donna. You don't even know or understand my state nursing practice act. Which state are you basing your practice in? I'm from a different state. I was simply trying to say something nice about good nurses who happen to be LPNs. I'm not getting into this LPN vs. RN battle. It's old and tired and dosen't belong on this thread.Now if I say that only BSN prepared nurses should be allowed to practice you will get upset too. Why are nurses so divided? I have over 15 years of higher education at prestigious and very exclusive private universities. I know my nursing practice act. You can't please everyone. Jeesuz!!