"Just" a 2-year degree

[RNsRWe]

Stopped at local pharmacy to pick up prescription. Asked pharm tech how her daughter was (she's a traveling nurse); she said great, we briefly discussed how she's deciding between staying and moving on, compensations etc. I said that I heard that travelers out her way made some really good money.....and the pharm tech said "well, you guys here make really good money with just a two year degree." JUST. Said in such a way as to make me think she equated my educational experience with a humanities major. Hey: poetry, history, nursing, all the same stuff, right?

I said you'd be hard-pressed to find someone who finishes an RN program in only 2 years nowadays. She shrugged, said her daughter "blew through" it (ten years ago or so). She didn't want to hear that things have changed a TAD since then.

Sigh. I think I'll take up basket-weaving. Appears I'm qualified.

[IndianapolisNurse]

It took me 3 years of FULL TIME school to receive my ADN. Yes, you could do it in 2 still, but not only would it be suicide..but nowadays there is so much competition that you normally don't get in to the nursing program until you have your pre reqs done. Alot of the cutting process is based on a point system around here and you get a 4 points for an A in a pre req class, 3 for B and 2 for C. Every person applying gets these "points", that being said, if you don't have your pre reqs done and with mostly A's, you are cut. It is actually easier to get into ISU's 4 yr. BSN program than it is to get into Ivy Tech's or other community colleges that offer nursing, which aren't many. There are plenty of ADN's that work in our magnet hospitals that have roles other than bedside nursing. I have worked with nurses who have graduated BSN and struggled right out of school because they had more book knowledge than actual hands on like the ADN programs. It is a proven fact here in Indiana that if you graduate from ISU BSN program, or their old ADN before they got rid of it because Ivy Tech moved in nearby and took over..that facilities will hire ADN new grads from Ivy before they will hire the ISU just b/c of the difference in clinical experience. Doesn't mean that anyone is a better nurse, but facilities just know which schools they accommodate for clinicals and etc. and they know who gets more hands on. This is especially true in the Terre Haute area where ISU is located and an Ivy Tech program. I don't care whether a nurse has a BSN or ADN to be honest, I have seen it where one is a much better nurse than the other and it goes both ways. I do not see them ever making it where ony a BSN will be considered the only "nurse" or RN in the future..the demand is just too great for nursing and will only increase with the baby boomers; that and they don't pay nurses with Master's degrees very much money at all to teach nursing students...so it's hard to get nurses to teach for such little pay. There is always going to be a shortage because of the supply and demand theory; at least for several years to come. Alot of my charge nurses are ADN nurses..my manager does have a BSN and they wanted to hire MSN, but didn't have enough applicants to be able to be so picky. A nurse is a nurse...LPNS too...been there and not much difference in the real world as far as I've noticed from LPN to RN except getting paid for what you already basically did as a LPN. We all perform the same functions and have the same goal in mind...our patients!!

[nurse4theplanet, RN]

I don't understand your comment about two year programs. There are plenty of two year RN programs in my state, are they not prevalent in yours?

Her comment refers to the fact that most ADN programs take more than just 2 years to complete. If you took all the nursing classes and pre-req's at the same time you could finish in two years...but this is NOT realistic for most students. Most students do about a year of pre-req's PLUS the two year program...therefore, the '2 yr' degree doesn't adequately portray the commitment involved

By the pharm tech stating that her daughter blew threw is dismissing the hard work that goes into 'just a 2 yr' nursing degree

Did that clear it up a bit? That's how I understood it.

[celeste7767]

I have attended both an ADN and BSN program and must say that I think the BSN program does give a little better base, but there is NO "just" to an ADN Program. 95% of a nurse depends on the person - not the type of degree. I know a couple of our BSN nurses that couldn't hold a candle to a handful of our ADN nurses.

I got my AAD in nursing from Indiana University in 1975. I took all my pre-reqs in summer school sessions between the 2 years or 4 semesters of Nursing Classes because I wanted to be able to concentrate exclusively on my nursing classes during the fall and spring full semesters since except for Fundamentals of Nursing which was an 6 credit class, the rest were 10 or 12 credit courses which of course included lectures 3 afternoons a week and clinicals 8 hours on 2 days and 4 hours on 2 days. We felt like we lived nursing. By the last semester when we also had to take a course in Nursing and the Law, we were all burned out before we even took our boards.

It seems that the pre-reqs are more demanding than they were 30 years ago when there were no computer classes required. But our Anatomy and Physiology course was 8 credits and 2 semesters I had to take that during my first fall and spring semester with my Fundamentals of Nursing course and Nursing Care of the Adult Patient (10 credits). Yes, I took 14 credit hours the fall semester and 18 credit hours the spring semester, and it was hell, but I did not have the time to drag out my education over several years. Financially, I needed to be working again as soon as was possible. I had 2 small children and although my husband worked, it wasn't enough. That was the worst year, but after that the second year was hard but doable.

Personally, I felt that I got an excellent nursing education from IUN and was pretty well prepared to take on my first job after an 8 week internship at the local hospital I started at. All of our Nursing instructors were PHD prepared full or associate professors and came from places like Case Western Reserve University and Penn State and were 100% dedicated to their mission to make us into top notch RN's. We had a 96% pass rate on the State Boards too.

I don't know why but it seems to me that nurses are extremely impressed by having a multitude of initials after their names, i.e. RN, BSN, MSN, CCRN, CEN, CMC, CNS, APRN, FAAN, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH. Considering that the pay for a new grad with an Associate Degree differs by approximately $10,000 to $20,000 a year from the RN with a BSN, MSN, PHDn or with multiple specialty certifications, I wonder if we are all on some sort of competitive ego trip. I got my BSN, my CCRN, my CEN, and then became trained in hemodialysis, Pediatric ICU, Trauma, Cath Lab and have taken ACLS every 2 years since 1982, and PALS and NALS every 2 years since 1993. SO WHAT!!!! It's a good thing I am physically disabled and on Social Security Disability because no hospital would hire me for what I am worth considering my vast and varied experience and knowledge. They would rather hire someone with less experience and maybe 7 to 10 years in nursing instead of 30 years. At this age, I am a liability. I thought I was making myself more marketable by learning so many different skills; I was definitely wrong on that count. The market is not what it used to be.

Celeste7767:innerconf

[BSNtobe2009]

Well, I don't consider ASN programs "3 or 4-year" programs, because someone goes part-time, finishes their pre-req's first to give their application more weight for admissions, etc. Does that mean I have a 6 year degree because it took me that long to complete my BS?

Of course it doesn't.

[WildBillRN]

I graduated with my 2 yr AS degree in nursing (RN) in 1993. It took me 5 1/2 years to get it because I was working full time and supporting a family. (by the way I am a male RN). Before that I drove ambulance since 1986 so I have worked in the medical field for 20 years. No one is JUST A NURSE!! I also support the use of an all USA Nursing Union. If we can JUST (lol) get them to all work together (like Australia does - over 48000 nurses strong) we could control medicine and make it better for all - including the patients we take care of.

[nurse4theplanet, RN]

Well, I don't consider ASN programs "3 or 4-year" programs, because someone goes part-time, finishes their pre-req's first to give their application more weight for admissions, etc. Does that mean I have a 6 year degree because it took me that long to complete my BS?

Of course it doesn't.

Nor would I, but if someone dismissed my degree as "just a 2 year" degree then I would be quick to re-educate them on the reality of what it takes to obtain an associate's degree in nursing.

[nursbee04]

Well, I don't consider ASN programs "3 or 4-year" programs, because someone goes part-time, finishes their pre-req's first to give their application more weight for admissions, etc. Does that mean I have a 6 year degree because it took me that long to complete my BS?

Of course it doesn't.

I think the point is that you cannot obtain an ASN in two years, not that an ASN should be considered a four year degree. It took me three. To say it is a two year degree is misleading to some, especially laypersons. Just as it is equally misleading to say that you have a four year degree if it took you that long to complete your ASN, just as you pointed out. The argument here is that someone would say "just a two year degree" reducing several years of hard work for most of us to a "just a..." statement.

[HyperTension]

Funny how people who don't have one think they hand them away for free. Stand in line and just because you want one you get one...no work, sacrifice, blood, sweat, tears.....

[BSNtobe2009]

I think the point is that you cannot obtain an ASN in two years, not that an ASN should be considered a four year degree. It took me three. To say it is a two year degree is misleading to some, especially laypersons. Just as it is equally misleading to say that you have a four year degree if it took you that long to complete your ASN, just as you pointed out. The argument here is that someone would say "just a two year degree" reducing several years of hard work for most of us to a "just a..." statement.

I disagree. I am taking the minority opinion here and SUPPORTING what the pharm tech said, which I think was 100% correct. I don't think in any way she intended to be insulting. I know people hate reading repetitive posts, and I detailed my reasons for thinking so in other posts to this thread.

[scaredofshots]

Well, I don't consider ASN programs "3 or 4-year" programs, because someone goes part-time, finishes their pre-req's first to give their application more weight for admissions, etc. Does that mean I have a 6 year degree because it took me that long to complete my BS?

Of course it doesn't.

WHATEVER! It takes someone a complete 3 years to get the ASN! One full year plus summer classes for all pre reqs and then two FULL years of nursing classes!!

[BSNtobe2009]

WHATEVER! It takes someone a complete 3 years to get the ASN! One full year plus summer classes for all pre reqs and then two FULL years of nursing classes!! :

First, let's keep it professional.

Second, I have found at least a dozen different nursing programs where Chem and AP were part of the Nursing program and were not required to be completed prior to admittance, including the one I am applying to. Since there are a couple of semesters between now and when the program starts in the Fall of 2007, I am taking the most difficult courses in advance so that when I start, it will just be nursing classes and not English, computer literacy, etc. This is strictly for my personal convenience and not required.

For the record, I have known several women who have applied and were accepted based on course they took in high school and high school GPA.

[Roy Fokker, BSN, RN]

Ladies and Gentlemen,

This has been a good 12 page long thread. A friendly reminder to keep the TOS in mind - specifically about debates and disagreements:

Debates

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- Roy

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