Question for all you "gas passers"

scribblerpnp · Nov 23, 2003

Do you feel the same way about other MSN's as well, or just the CRNA's? Perhaps some people just want to get all of their schooling over at once instead of taking an undertermined break in between. "It's only two years" can quickly turn into 5 and then 10 and before you know it, you are to busy with your life to go back to school.

Just a thought. That's the reason I got my master's right after I graduated with my bachelor's degree. It had absolutely nothing with wanting to be a "pseudo doctor." I wanted to finish school before I got married, had kids, etc.

Trauma Tom · Nov 23, 2003

Mike,

I do not take this personal. I once wanted to be a physician, years ago, but did not have the discipline at 18. What I have discovered though, 25 years after college is that there are many people who had the ability to be physicians, but may have not had the discipline or the resources. I first thought I wanted to go back to med school, but instead I have decided to go to CRNA school. Yes, there are many people who might want to go to CRNA school right after nursing school, but is this any different than wanting to go to med school right out of college? I chose to prepare to CRNA school during a clinical rotation during nursing school. I loved the OR and was fascinated by what the CRNA's do. I do not consider CRNA's nurses who could not go to medical school. In fact, I feel that many of the CRNA's I have met could have gone to medical school. When I was in college, most medical students were males. You have to understand that many things have changed in the past thirty years. Many women chose nursing 30 years ago because medicine was almost closed to them. Also, as a male, very few men choose nursing, however, I find as a male nurse that most men migrate towrds critical care and that CRNA work is the next logical progression for them. I also feel that being a CRNA allows you to have a blend of nursing as well as medicine and have more autonomy than any other area of nursing. This belend of nursing and medicine I feel provided for a unique practioner that AA's and few anesthesiologists have, the caring of a nurse and the clinical expertise in anesthesia. At my age, it made no sense to go to medical school because it would not be a good return on my investment because of my age. I currently am an ICU nurse in a major teaching hospital with two medical schools affiliated with this hospital. I meet physicians every day who never even heard of a CRNA before they attended medical school. Many are surprised that nurses can do this work and feel that it is a great job that doesn't require as much sacrifice as these guys and gals make during medical school and residency. After working with these physicians I realize that I probably could attend med school, but do not want to becaue I feel that being a CRNA is a better choice. Good pay, without all the sacrifices that physicians have and less time to prepare for the job. I also believe I will enjoy doing the work of a CRNA as opposed to supervising them. I worked as an anesthesia tech during nursing school and was employed at a major hospital working with anesthesiologists, Anesthesiologist assistants and CRNA's. I think the CRNA's and AA"s have a better job, even though they may have less income potential. Also, as I understand it nurses in the past needed less educational experience to become CRNA's. However, recent changes are now requiring more education and more experince. I do not know of any program in the US where a RN right out of school can get into a CRNA program.

cnmtocrna · Nov 23, 2003

Mike, don't take this personally, but your logic is flawed. Advanced practice nursing is not pseudo-medicine. There is nothing wrong with getting a degree in nursing in order to become a CRNA or a CNM, or a FNP, etc. So what if they haven't even touched a patient before they have made this decision? Med students have done pre-med or at least heavy science degrees prior to med school, and then they do two years in med school before they touch a patient. I went to nursing school to become a nurse-midwife. I worked the required one year in labor and delivery and went directly back to school for my Master's. I am now working the required one year in ICU to go to a nurse-anesthesia program. I would rather spend my years becoming experienced in anesthesia than in the ICU. I am learning the basic skills required to be successful in CRNA school.

Why is it so hard to understand why a person would want to be a nurse-anesthetist? Interesting, challenging work, plenty of jobs, great salary......

Must a prospective law student work as a legal secretary or paralegal before attending law school?

All nurses are fortunate to have a wealth of options available to them, enabling each and every one to choose their paths according to their goals and interests and discipline to work hard. We need to support each other.

passing thru · Nov 23, 2003

Oops !

I thought this thread was for us elevator "gas-passers ."

gaspassah · Nov 23, 2003

well for me, when i started nursing school it was with the intentions of going to crna school. my dad who is an rn always wanted to go, his aunt was a crna, so i got alot of info on the profession very early on. i dont think ppl go to crna school to be psuedo docs. i wanted to go to med school out of high school, but at that time, there was the loud talk about the U.S. going to socialized med. all that school, more work and less income didnt seem to make sense. of course this never happened but i wasnt really willing to take that chance. i could have been a doctor tho, had the grades etc.

nursing came a little later for me and i reaffirmed my desire to go to crna school. anesthesia schools are competitive programs, to say nurses that go to gas school cant make it as a doc are crazy. i know many docs that came through my icu that i thought couldnt make it through nursing school, all sorts of people fall through all sorts of cracks in every profession.

anesthesia training and the background it takes to get there is also underrated. most programs require at least 1 year of critical care, that doenst mean those ppl get in. in my program the average is about 5 years. which is all on the job training when taking take of critically ill patient. if you average the hours (2080 hrs per year x 5 years that's over 10,000 hours) the nurse is the person who sits at the bedside 12 hours a day titrating gtts, and assessing pt responses. i'm not downplaying docs, most are very good at what they do, but they dont have the pt contact nurses do. they rely on us and our expertise and much as we rely on theirs. sure there are nurses who cant make decisions without calling the docs....but these are the ones who rarely make it to anesthesia school. the ones who make it to gas school are usually A type peronsalities that have experience making decisions at the bedside, who have good clinical skills, and apply themselves.

i think nurses who choose anesthesia school are looking for something a little more, want a closer connection to their patient, and a more challenging career.

was this too long? sorry.

just my .02$

shodobe · Nov 24, 2003

For all of you that answered, thanks. This question wasn't put there to demean or simplify the process of going to anesthesia school right out of nursing school. I agree it is exactlly like going to med school right out of your 4 year college. Like I have said before, I have been doing this for a long time and work with many CRNAs at one hospital that I go to and I do have to say they are more compassionate, caring than most MDs that give anesthesia. It just seemed strange looking at all the threads about advice you give others who want to go into anesthesia that most of them don't want to experience a little of what nursing has to offer. I also did not imply I had a problem with one wanting to become a CRNA. Why not. All of you that have answered have experienced nursing in form or another and I know you are better for it. As for the term "pseud-docs", I still stand by my observation that I have come across a few nurses intending to go anesthesia school as away to avoid med school. Sorry. I know that over whelmingly this is NOT the case. These are a few that probably will not even make it out of CRNA school because they don't have the right mentality for it. Like I said before, thanks for your responses and I hope I did not offend anyone.:) Mike

Trauma Tom · Nov 24, 2003

No offense taken!

eng_nurse · Nov 24, 2003

Hi Mike,

I didn't take offense to your comment, I understand where you are coming from. I have had so many people tell me that I should be a CRNA when I told them I am changing careers from engineering to nursing. So far, I love nursing school and I am excited about starting my career as a nurse. I don't want to be a MD... my best friend is a MD and I saw her go through a lot over while she was in school. I have had many people tell me that I should go to medical schools, like I am too good for nursing or something... that bothers me too... what is wrong with being a nurse? Okay, I won't go into that discussion.

I am just trying to find out what CRNA's so I can understand why people keeping recommending to it.

Have a good day!

Sarah Kat · Nov 24, 2003

I am not even a nurse yet. I am entering an LPN program in January. I am 26 and married and feel I have done little more than goof off since I graduated high school. I went to college with a psych major did a few semesters of basic requirements then life threw me quite a few curveballs and a wild pitch or two. I am finally getting myself back on track and into a field I am fascinated with. I have a game plan of short term goals to work towards (LPN then ASN/RN then BSN then CRNA/MSN) and I am excited about it.

I have been fascinated with anesthesia since I was an early teen (when I had my tonsils out -- the anesthesiologist was awesome -- I know I would have been giggling even without the gas). I didn't even know until after I had applied to LPN school that anesthesia was a nursing profession too. Actually, I "discovered" the concept of nurse anesthesia on the Army website. I had considered Nurse Midwivery up until then, but now my heart is set. Of course, who knows what life may bring in the next years. It might not happen. But I have a fire in my belly that I had been missing for the last 10 or so years. I feel like the kid I was in my early teens -- eager to learn, not caring what my peers think, striving for "greatness" and excited about life and possibility.

Maybe I have explained a bit why someone who isn't even yet a nurse would want to aim for CRNA.

Long Term Care Columnist / Guide · Nov 24, 2003

OOPS.......I thought this was gonna be a discussion about, well, you know........flatulence. It's rather common among us middle-agers. Then I saw the thread was posted under Nurse Anesthetist (CRNA). Guess I should wear my bifocals when reading these things:imbar

kmchugh · Nov 24, 2003

Originally posted by shodobe
Now before I ask don't any of you take this personal. It seems to me that there are alot of nurses who haven't even gotten out of school yet that they are shooting for the CRNA programs before even taking care of one patient. What I am saying is, some don't really want to be nurses they want to be pseudo-mds.

Why not just come out and say "This isn't personal, and I don't want to make you mad, but why are you guys such butt heads?"

Sorry, but this question, with all the qualifiers in the world, is bound to spark the anger of many CRNA's. I have yet to see anyone accuse a student in nursing school, who has not yet touched a patient, but wants to be an FNP or CNM, of wanting to be a "pseudo-MD." Why the special attention to CRNA's? I'm going to try to hold my temper in check, and see if we can't deal with the issues you raised.

Most who come to this board regularly know my background. I returned to school at 33, and had to make some choices. I knew I wanted to go into healthcare, but wasn't sure which direction I should take. I considered med school seriously, and with a final undergrad GPA of 3.972, could have taken that route. Instead, I chose nursing, and chose nursing with every intent of becoming a CRNA. Why?

Not because I wanted to be a "pseudo-MD." Not because I was afraid of med school. Not because I wanted to make the big bucks. I chose nursing specifically for what nurses do, which is look at the big picture. MD's rely on us to do this. And I chose anesthesia because I am of a scientific bent, and it seemed to me to be the most scientifically based of the advanced nursing practices. It also seemed to me to be the most difficult and rewarding path in nursing.

There are a number of practicing and future CRNA's, myself included, who will tell you that had there not been CRNA's, they never would have gone into nursing. Money is a SMALL part of that statement. I would never have gone into nursing, primarily because I was not willing to put up with the crap a staff nurse is forced to take for the rest of my life. I admire nurses who can be staff nurses for 20 - 30 years, and keep their focus. Especially in light of how nurses are treated by some physicians and nearly all administrators throughout their career. But I knew I couldn't do what they did forever. I wanted more, and I knew it.

Mike, I'm not angry at you for asking the question. But your question highlights how many nurses view CRNA's. (And yes, I do know a few CRNA's who contribute to this.) Many nurses feel that we have left the true faith of nursing. By accepting higher education that is mostly hard science, by accepting greater independence and responsiblity, by taking higher salaries (which probably is at the root of many nurses' jealousy), we have become apostate, heretics to the true faith and path of nursing.

I am Certified Registered Nurse Anesthetist. I am a NURSE, and am proud of that fact.

Kevin McHugh, CRNA