Question about Anti-Social Personality Disorder

[MattiesMama]

Hi nurses...I'm a LPN student who lurks here often as phych is one of my biggest areas of interest but today I'm hoping for some advice. I think my daughters father has antisocial personality disorder...He literally fits every single criteria in the DSM-IV definition...from the superficial charm to the lack of remorse. On some level I have always known there was something "wrong" with him but I've always tried to not fixate on it...but this past weekend when he was picking my daughter up for a visit, I got a horrible feeling in my gut that she wasn't safe with him and I told him that I didn't feel comfortable with him taking her, and when I tried to get her out of the corificeat he threw me on the ground and kicked me several times. This was the first time he has ever put his hands on me (although he has been verbally abusive and thrown things at me in the past) The cops were called and he was arrested, I now have a protective order against him but he is demanding to see his child (not surprisingly he has zero remorse for what happened and claims it was my fault) and I'm at a loss for what to do....

So I guess I have a couple questions on how to deal with this...

1.) Do you think it is even remotely realistic that I could convince him to get treatment? I mean on some level he does acknowledge there is something off with him but he laughs at me whenever I bring up therapy...he doesn't "believe" in it.

2.)Is there even an effective treatment for APD?

3.)Am I right to fear for my daughters safety when she is alone with him? I have never witnessed any kind of abuse towards her, and believe me I've kept a close eye out for any sign of it...he does say he loves her and I believe he does but he has also admitted that when he sees me with her acting cuddly or other fathers acting affectionate and loving towards their kids it makes him angry because it doesn't feel "natural" to him...And I can see it when they interact. He doesn't "get" her, he is sarcastic with her and he teases her relentlessly, and he gets extremely frustrated when she whines or cries or asks for mommy (I should probobly mention that she JUST turned two in January, and he's only been involved in her life for the last 7 months so she doesn't even know him that well)

4.)I'm sure there is a genetic componant to this and I'm wondering if there is anything I should be keeping my eye out for when it comes to my daughter.

I figure you guys deal with people like this on a daily basis so you all might have some useful advice for me...I would be so grateful for any input, it might help me decide what the next step should be...And please believe me when I say this isn't a situation where I am "out to get him" and want to find some way to make him look bad in court...I do want him to have a relationship with his daughter but I'm just wondering, at this point, if that is even wise or possible

Thanks in advance!

-B

[Whispera, MSN, RN]

Good for you in getting help for yourself and your daughter!

[nana23]

I totally agree with all the adivse here that you need to seek legal assistance in protecting yourself and your daughter. I am a Psychiatric Nurse Supervisor, and I am fearful of his level of "getting you back'. I WOULD NOT allow him to take your daughter alone. Great information has been shared with you here, and I pray for a good outcome for you.

[Mr Ian]

I subscribe to the belief ASPD and psychopathy are not the same - tho may be on the same continuum - and without having a history it's not possible to determine which - tho I wouldn't be surprised if he had one or the other.

The presentations are very similar but there are different traits.

For the discussion - The subtle differential between ASPD and psychopathy (aka sociopathy) is the lack of ability to change. It's a debatable point - not a proven one; but I'm convinced.

ASPD is more of a learned or developed behaviour - and as such is amenable to some interventions/change and can demonstrate emotional awareness. Things like Schema Therapy can make a difference - but are hard going.

They may harm others - but they choose not to feel bad about it and justify themselves. However, they still feel emotion about it.

Psychopathy is somewhat congenital or rigidly fixed and does not change at all - and requires different methods of "treatment" - essentially based on understanding the motivators in the cost/benefit. They do not judge their actions on the same principles as emotionally led people. It's all loss/gain in an egocentric fashion.

They harm others and do not have the ability to feel bad - or anything really - other than justified.

My current partner's ex is a psychopath - we know this as I scored him on the PCL-r.

And for the question in point:

IMO - Don't bother to try help him either way. The effort outweighs the probable gain.

Keep strict boundaries and rules between you.

Don't negotiate anything ad-hoc

Document brief notes on every meeting you have with him and every contact he has with the child. Just in case of legal battle.

I would also reccomend you seek legal and emotional counsel.

[Atheos]

Sociopathy and psychopathy and ASPD are three distinct things.

A sociopath is one who is affected with a personality disorder marked by antisocial behavior. A psychopath is a person with an antisocial personality disorder, manifested in aggressive, perverted, criminal, or amoral behavior without empathy or remorse.

Seems like it is the same but there is a distinct difference.

Basically, a sociopath may not necessarily have ASPD while a psycopath always has a form of it.

Also, while all psycopaths have a form of ASPD, not all those with ASPD are psycopathic.

[Thunderwolf, MSN, RN]

Sociopathy and psychopathy and ASPD are three distinct things.

A sociopath is one who is affected with a personality disorder marked by antisocial behavior. A psychopath is a person with an antisocial personality disorder, manifested in aggressive, perverted, criminal, or amoral behavior without empathy or remorse.

Seems like it is the same but there is a distinct difference.

Basically, a sociopath may not necessarily have ASPD while a psycopath always has a form of it.

Also, while all psycopaths have a form of ASPD, not all those with ASPD are psycopathic.

Well. well...this is a very good example in how one and the same illness (in this case, ASPD) may manifest itself differently. It is all about degree of severity...from mild (less rigid traits) to wild (rigid and full blown)....a continuum. In saying this, I would have to disagree that we have 3 different disorders here as proposed, but one illness on a continuum of severity.

Actually though, the above 3 so named disorders have often been used to describe the same one illness, depending upon the times (be it the 50's, 60's, 70's, 80's, 90's and beyond). We can also throw in "criminal or criminal personality," which has been another past descriptor.

Peace