*~Question About Retrogression & Foreign Nurses Already In US*~

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I have friends who are here in the US on a work visa, and they're from Canada. Does the retrogression affect people already in the US who are on work visa? Or does it just affect people who are trying to come here?

Also, are there any other countries who have something similar to the US retrogression at this time? Or is it just the US that has it in place.

Thanks

Specializes in Medical and general practice now LTC.
Oh yeah, I did state that, but it was in regard to nurses who come here on a tourist visa and they worked here illegally and obviously w/o a license to practice nursing (someone mentioned earlier about passing the NCLEX but no license issue because of the tourist visa). Sorry about the confusion.

There are lots of good nurses no matter where they studied, US, Philippines, Russia, etc... but it's the ones who do it the illegal way make it harder for the ones who are doing it legal.

Most nurses do take their local exams to be registered as a nurse but some countries only allow their citizens to take the exam like the Philippines so if an International student then they miss out. In my opinion that is a shame. There are also some that know they do not have to take the local exam as some states will accept them if they haven't, again I think this is a shame but also how can they sell themselves to an employer when they have to wait due to retrogression which can take years and they have no license and therefore can not gain any experience. The worst are like you said, working illegal making it harder for those waiting and the ones that know they are doing it illegal but do it anyway.

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You all have good points. My point is that a person works illegally here in the US and commits malpractice, the patient has no recourse. Report them to the Board of Nursing- impossible since they don't have a license. The patient and family could file a civil suit, but since the person doesn't have and the facilities coverage does not cover illegal workers the patient is out of luck.

And I agree, this is not fair to the nurses who are trying very hard to legally to enter the USA.

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I can understand what you're saying, and I totally agree that if a US grad works overseas that they SHOULD undergo a skills exam before they're issued a license in another country. Why, because the skills portion is different from country to country. I learned that from foreign nurses who were taught differently than someone who graduated from the US. I understand that you also hold a BSN from your country of origin but the clinical skills are different. That's the only reason why I believe that foreign grads should be tested on skills before being issued an RN license. As for a US grad having to go through a skills exam before obtaining an RN license, I don't agree with that because they are taught in the US. All nursing schools in the US must follow guidelines when teaching students clinical skills. Once they graduate they already know how to practice nursing in "this country" and were taught under the guidelines of "this country". Foreign nurses weren't educated in this country, and their country has different guidelines than this country. That is the reason why they evaluate transcripts in the 1st place. Official transcripts are evaluated because of the different guidelines, therefore the same should be done regarding clinical skills.

yes ma'am i have a bachelors degree in nursing also in engineering, i also pass and worked as CNA in the US and a RN(US,RP).

yes ma'am every country has different guidelines but the clinical skills i might disagree coz in terms of skills we are almost alike, we must complete hours on the job training, complete 25 cases before we graduate, even both our countries have a lot in common, philippines had been a commonwealth of the US, before and during that time most educator came from your country, yes your board of nursing evaluate our transcript and if its approved then we were allowed to take the NCLEX-RN, i dont think that skills exam is necessary, its not like UAPs that must undergo skills exam.

Also, I know someone from the Philippines who wasn't allowed to take the NCLEX for RN because of someone from there got a hold of the questions and answers and supposedly passed them around and therefore people were passing the NCLEX exam. As far as I know according to her there was an investigation going on at that time. She also stated that her school was being closely watched for some other reasons I don't even want to mention. Last I heard from her, she was still waiting.
i don't know whose your sources is but no one can cheat the nclex, its comp. adaptive so the questions are not fixed, she might be talking about our local board exam here where this one school

who's students are most likely so dumb that they need to cheat, many of us suffer during that time, after 2 days of exam we end up of retaking it!:banghead:

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yes ma'am i have a bachelors degree in nursing also in engineering, i also pass and worked as CNA in the US and a RN(US,RP).

yes ma'am every country has different guidelines but the clinical skills i might disagree coz in terms of skills we are almost alike, we must complete hours on the job training, complete 25 cases before we graduate, even both our countries have a lot in common, philippines had been a commonwealth of the US, before and during that time most educator came from your country, yes your board of nursing evaluate our transcript and if its approved then we were allowed to take the NCLEX-RN, i dont think that skills exam is necessary, its not like UAPs that must undergo skills exam.

i don't know whose your sources is but no one can cheat the nclex, its comp. adaptive so the questions are not fixed, she might be talking about our local board exam here where this one school

who's students are most likely so dumb that they need to cheat, many of us suffer during that time, after 2 days of exam we end up of retaking it!:banghead:

My source is a Filipino BSN graduate (foreign educated). According to her someone got a hold of the questions to the NCLEX (there in the Philippines) and then in turn passed them around. Questions weren't fixed, just were known ahead of time, which constitutes cheating. I totally agree that the ones who took the NCLEX exam and passed it because they worked hard, are suffering and it's not fair to them.

It doesn't matter if the Philippines was a commonwealth of the US or not, their standard of practicing nursing is different when it comes to the clinical setting. The same can go for Puerto Rico who's currently a commonwealth of the US, they practice medicine/nursing differently than we do here in the US. They were taught different, and nobody says it's a bad thing. It's just different, but where ever you pracitice nursing you should follow the guidelines of that country. It's the same from state to state for LVN's. LVN's can do more in some states, and less in some states, you must understand and know your scope of practice. You'd better have it down before you start working because you're liable if something happens under your license.

I understand that you complete hours of training just like we do here, but bottom line is that you're not trained here in the US. Our laws and regulations are totally different, and how we practice here is different than how you practice there. There are certain things that an RN can do here that they don't do in the Philippines. Here I've NEVER had to share a patient with another student while in nursing school. I will ask another student for help when needed, but that patient is MY PATIENT and I'm able to practice my clinical skills and have more hands on opportunity. A good friend of mine was educated in the Philippines, and she's very sharp, and according to her when she was in nursing school in the Philippines she had to share her patient with 4 other students. She graduated 11 years ago from nursing school, and the student to patient ratio has gone up even more from what I've been hearing. So when are you getting the opportunity to practice your clinical skills? Completing 25 cases of what? Case studies? We all do case studies, but case studies is NOTHING compared to the clinical experience.

I'm sorry, but when a foreign BSN comes up to you a mere CNA and asks YOU what coumadin is for, then I have a problem with that. When a Foreign BSN comes up to you ask asks you if you know how to suction a patient, then there's something wrong. When a foreign BSN comes up to you and asks you something regarding the diet orders, then you begin to wonder. When you have to show a foreign graduate nurse how to insert a foley catheter, ok STOP RIGHT THERE! I've seen it done a dozen times as a CNA, I could walk you through it, but come on, I'm not licensed to do that. I've had that happen to me, and sad thing is that every single time, it came from the same foreign trained nurse. Sad, sad, and sad. I don't ever want her working with my family member.

So yes, I do believe that having foreign graduates being tested on skills is very necessary. I'm sure that a lot of people will agree with me. Just as I believe that if a US graduate nurses goes and works overseas, that nurse should be tested on skills because they do things differently overseas. Bottom line, it protects the patient, the hospital and the nurse.

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LatinaVNStudentRN2B could you be confused with CRNE exam which was adminstered in 2006 ? The NCLEX is computer generated so it would be hard to cheat on.

In my area, when you are hired you need to prove you are competent to practice. This means you have to pass an exam and have a nurse educator watch you to complete the task before you are allowed to practice alone.

I don't think this is done in a SNF.

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LatinaVNStudentRN2B could you be confused with CRNE exam which was adminstered in 2006 ? The NCLEX is computer generated so it would be hard to cheat on.

In my area, when you are hired you need to prove you are competent to practice. This means you have to pass an exam and have a nurse educator watch you to complete the task before you are allowed to practice alone.

I don't think this is done in a SNF.

Maybe that's it the CRNE, I'm not sure, but she wasn't allowed to sit for the NCLEX because of what happened. All she said was that word got out that the questions were obtained and passed around. So maybe it was the CRNE.

In my area the same is done in the hospitals.

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...STOP RIGHT THERE! I've seen it done a dozen times as a CNA, I could walk you through it, but come on, I'm not licensed to do that. I've had that happen to me, and sad thing is that every single time, it came from the same foreign trained nurse.

So you've seen incompetence from 1 person or maybe even a handful of people and now you want to change the NCLEX to include a skills exam. Hold on now, sounds a little drastic. It sounds more like a training problem within your organization. Hospitals have training or orientation programs not only for new hires but also for seasoned workers. Every place does things a little different.

Our own nursing based practice is designed to utilize new data for better patient care. When new information shows a better way of doing things then we will adapt to the new technique/information. An example of which was AHA adult CPR was changed to 30 compressions for every 2 breaths. But were we wrong in the previous method of 15:2? If you ask the victims who survived their tragedy the answer would be NO. Knowledge changes and our jobs as nurses are to educate others.

I've spent multiple years in corporate America and encountered my fair share of less than stellar performance from my fellow co-workers. Most of the time the problem was not with the person, but it was the system or the culture of the organization that was different than what they are used to. Have a little patience, not everyone is at the same level. I really believe everyone wants to do a good job. They just need to be shown the company's way of doing things to get it "correct".

The "foreign trained nurse" shows initiative. She's at least asking questions when unsure of the answer. The worse is when people don't ask or have no clue they are doing something wrong. That's where you should be afraid. If a nurse or doctor or any other medical personnel, regardless of where they were trained, are a danger to themselves or to others than that information needs to go beyond the proverbial "nurses station" and directly to management/HR for retraining, disciplinary action or removal.

"Education is what remains after one has forgotten everything he learned in school." --- Albert Einstein.

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So you've seen incompetence from 1 person or maybe even a handful of people and now you want to change the NCLEX to include a skills exam. Hold on now, sounds a little drastic. It sounds more like a training problem within your organization. Hospitals have training or orientation programs not only for new hires but also for seasoned workers. Every place does things a little different.

Our own nursing based practice is designed to utilize new data for better patient care. When new information shows a better way of doing things then we will adapt to the new technique/information. An example of which was AHA adult CPR was changed to 30 compressions for every 2 breaths. But were we wrong in the previous method of 15:2? If you ask the victims who survived their tragedy the answer would be NO. Knowledge changes and our jobs as nurses are to educate others.

I've spent multiple years in corporate America and encountered my fair share of less than stellar performance from my fellow co-workers. Most of the time the problem was not with the person, but it was the system or the culture of the organization that was different than what they are used to. Have a little patience, not everyone is at the same level. I really believe everyone wants to do a good job. They just need to be shown the company's way of doing things to get it "correct".

The "foreign trained nurse" shows initiative. She's at least asking questions when unsure of the answer. The worse is when people don't ask or have no clue they are doing something wrong. That's where you should be afraid. If a nurse or doctor or any other medical personnel, regardless of where they were trained, are a danger to themselves or to others than that information needs to go beyond the proverbial "nurses station" and directly to management/HR for retraining, disciplinary action or removal.

"Education is what remains after one has forgotten everything he learned in school." --- Albert Einstein.

I just used one example on one foreign trained nurse. But I've seen it all over (with the exception where I'm currently employed) in different facilities that I've worked at. I'd say at least 80% of them are questionable.

I too have worked in the corporate world and I totally agree with what you're saying regarding that. But I want to add that nobody said that the way that they were taught in their home country is wrong. It has to do with the fact that we do things differently here in the US. If they're coming here to practice nursing then yes, they need to adhere to the standards here. Now there are some that just flat out lack the clinical skills and you wonder how they ever graduated from nursing school. Or maybe their education was subpar, I don't know. As I've stated before there are great foreign trained nurses that I currently work with and I admire their knowledge and professionalism. Their skills are above and beyond, they were taught nursing when it meant something. What's coming out now is what is being questioned. It's the truth, some of them are lacking clinical skills. To make it safe for everyone including themselves, then yes, they should take a clinical exam before having their license issued. I'm not saying it to be mean, I'm saying it because the way they were taught is different. I never said it was wrong, they just learned it differently because they were taught under the rules and regulations of their home country.

There are a lot of bad apples out there and they shouldn't be allowed on the floor, no matter where they received their education. Whether they were trained in the US, Canada, Philippines, Australia etc, they must be weeded out.

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I just used one example on one foreign trained nurse. But I've seen it all over (with the exception where I'm currently employed) in different facilities that I've worked at. I'd say at least 80% of them are questionable.
80%?i think theirs a problem with in your facility, did your facility have a orientation? how long? or maybe the mentors maybe they forgot to teach the newbies, everyone knows that clinical settings is different from school, no matter how good you are in school and no one teaches you at work then you end up asking questions all the time, i hope their are no racial discrimination coz i see it all the time that just by the race you are left behind, it happen to me when i was a CNA, thats why i went back to phil. to study bsn,it also happen to my friend, to my friend's friend.
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One issue with foreign trained nurses is the lack of accountability of the schools that prepared them. If a local trained nurse who passes the NCLEX but performs badly, often the facility will call the college and question the program. If there is an issue it can be corrected with the next class.

My point is that school doesn't provide proper clinical experiences the employer can call the school so the issue doens't continue with new classes. When you have a foreign trained nurse there is no opportunity for feedback,

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80%?i think theirs a problem with in your facility, did your facility have a orientation? how long? or maybe the mentors maybe they forgot to teach the newbies, everyone knows that clinical settings is different from school, no matter how good you are in school and no one teaches you at work then you end up asking questions all the time, i hope their are no racial discrimination coz i see it all the time that just by the race you are left behind, it happen to me when i was a CNA, thats why i went back to phil. to study bsn,it also happen to my friend, to my friend's friend.

It's several facilities, not just one. I totally agree, that's just a way to big of a number. There are reasons why the State was always at one place in particular. Which they had some big citations. I don't want to name any places, but I went back on the website and found what they were sighted for after I left.

I totally understand regarding the discrimination, and like you I saw it all the time because I was discriminated against. Unfortunately there was a division between the Latinos and Filipinos. I for one spoke to everybody and made friends with everybody, but there were lots who did and it was on both sides. I had never even seen discrimination amongst the Filipinos until one CNA told me that she and a few others were being discriminated against because they weren't Ilocano (sorry if I got it wrong, don't mean to be offensive). Apparently there was division amongst them too. Weird huh. Thankfully in my current employment I don't see any discrimination at all, we all work together Latinos, Filipinos, Caucasians, African-Americans, etc etc....

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I had never even seen discrimination amongst the Filipinos until one CNA told me that she and a few others were being discriminated against because they weren't Ilocano (sorry if I got it wrong, don't mean to be offensive). Apparently there was division amongst them too. Weird huh.
Im not surprise among discrimination amongst filipino coz just for the record philippines are composed of 7,107 islands, we spoke like 80+ dialects, we dont even share the same culture, anyway im not offended i totally understand it, i also agree with division between latinos and filipinos, hope that this issue will be resolve, and will be contented on watching pacquiao and dela hoya this december,:loveya:
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