Psych patient on the acute care unit

Specialties Psychiatric

Published

Hello, psych nurses! So one of my patients had an MI, and she is mentally ill. Her working diagnosis says "Bipolar", but I'm thinking there is more to her behavior than that.

Her psychiatrist, the hospital psych doc who rounds on inpatients, is making changes to her medication regimen, and she is not happy about it, and neither is her mother, who sits in the corner and watches the patient's interactions with nurses, occasionally interjecting a comment or two. The mother is incredibly enabling, and the patient's behavior seems worse when the mother is present.

The moment I step onto the floor, I am dealing with her, with no time to check on my other patients or even look up labs, imaging, meds, etc. She is on her call light demanding to see her nurse immediately. She states she is having a "seizure" caused by "withdrawal" and demands that I call the doctor. She is lying in bed, her legs are shaking, and she states that her teeth are chattering, though I am not observing that. Her vitals are WNL, and it's been over a week since she last had the medication that she states she is withdrawing from, plus she is on an anticonvulsant. She states that she is miserable, and that she "will have relief". Now, I did call the hospitalist, who refused to come see her or prescribe anything. He believes that this is a psych issue, and that this is the psychiatrist's call. I attempt to call the psychiatrist with no success. The patient is accusing me of "not relaying the extreme urgency of the matter", and that is why the psychiatrist will not call back. The mother of the patient is asking me how I can find out whether the psychiatrist is in the hospital and when he plans to round (he rounded earlier that morning). I tell her that there is no way for me to know where the doctor is and that I have no control over the doctor's actions, and that I am doing everything I can for the patient.

All in all, this is very frustrating for me, because I am not used to dealing with this sort of thing. We do get psych patients occasionally, but I've only had one other that was more demanding than this, and it was a nightmare. I thought to myself that I needed to just be calm and set firm limits and go about my business as usual, so that is what I did. When the patient would call me in to complain of a "seizure" (all the while, her vital signs are WNL and she's lying there looking at me and talking to me) and make accusations about the supposed lack of care she is receiving, I would simply listen, nod my head occasionally, say "Uh huh" and "I can see you're upset", then reiterate that I am doing everything I am able to do, then calmly walk out of the room.

By the end of the night, she was apologizing for her behavior and complimenting me for being such a "good nurse". Still, up to that point, it was incredibly frustrating for me.

Any helpful tips, in case I have her again tonight?

Specializes in Cardiac Telemetry, ED.

There were a lot of issues around her discharge, which is why she stayed on our unit about a week beyond the typical MI recovery period. She wasn't acute enough for a psych bed, which are at a premium, she was refusing to go to an ECF unless the psychiatrist acquiesced to her demands (and he stood firm and would not), and so, she was eventually DCd home, where she lives alone in an apartment. Not a good situation for someone that needs a structured, supervised environment, but sadly, this happens frequently because of lack of funding and resources for mental health programs.

Specializes in mental health; hangover remedies.
she was refusing to go to an ECF unless the psychiatrist acquiesced to her demands (and he stood firm and would not)

Good for her. :)

Tho it may not be in her long term best interests I think more psychiatrists need to be stood up to.

Specializes in Cardiac Telemetry, ED.
Good for her. :)

Tho it may not be in her long term best interests I think more psychiatrists need to be stood up to.

Sigh. I didn't want to get into specifics, and I'll still try to avoid it, but that being said, this psychiatrist does have a heart of gold and I would trust him with anyone that I care about. The demands in question were revolving around a medication that would be detrimental to her cardiac health considering her history of CABG and MI, and which did nothing productive for her mental illness (in fact, it is arguable that it may have exacerbated her symptoms). It was not a medication that benefited her in any way other than that she wanted it. The doctor could not ethically continue to prescribe this harmful medication and the patient was directed to discuss it with her PCP. The patient instead chose to get into a power struggle with the doctor to make him do as she wished despite his ethical obligation to do no harm. I sided with the doc on this one.

Clear as mud?

Specializes in mental health; hangover remedies.
Clear as mud?

Yes I understand the dilemma, thanks for putting that out there - tho I wasn't looking for an explanation really.

Obviously a doc (or nurse) cannot knowingly agree to something that is going to be detrimental to someone.

Wonder what was so important about that med for her tho that she would be so obstinate?

I've met a few that are attached to their long term medication and even tho you know they don't need it any more - they wouldn't give it up.

Specializes in Psych, ER, Resp/Med, LTC, Education.

I'm on board the Borderline Personality D/O train here! Question is how big is her teddy bear? Did she bring pink fluffy slippers and a change of address card? LOL :rotfl: But seriously..........you need to set limits with her and not let her monopolize your whole shift or you will be ready to pull your hair out by the time she leaves. If you are not familiar with this DX I would do a little reading on line ..... but setting limits with her will be important like I said. Good luck and welcome to my world!!! We get a lot of borderlines where I work.

Specializes in mental health; hangover remedies.
I'm on board the Borderline Personality D/O train here! Question is how big is her teddy bear? Did she bring pink fluffy slippers and a change of address card? LOL :rotfl: But seriously..........you need to set limits with her and not let her monopolize your whole shift or you will be ready to pull your hair out by the time she leaves. If you are not familiar with this DX I would do a little reading on line ..... but setting limits with her will be important like I said. Good luck and welcome to my world!!! We get a lot of borderlines where I work.

This is a long response. If you get a third of the way in and don't feel interested ... I'd stop reading. It doesn't get any better towards the end. :chuckle

I'm going to be a tad contentious too - just so you know :saint: ......

I've come across a fair few people with Borderline Personality behaviour. I don't see it in the same way as ... I'll call it - the 'traditionalist' view. I'll call mine the "alternative" view. I will concede - I am in the minority, tho I'm not alone.

When I talk with people about BP behaviour, we tend to agree on one thing - they behave in uniquely distinguishable oppositional ways; ways that seem counter-intuitive and counter-constructive.

I have a little short prose that I use to describe the risks to the clinician-patient relationship when working with people who have borderline personalities:

Once upon a time a scorpion wanted to cross a brook. On the bank he saw a frog and asked if the frog would give him a ride to the other side.

"Oh no," says the frog, "If I carry you on my back you will sting me."

"But why would I sting you when we would both surely perish," replied the scorpion.

The frog eventually conceded that the scorpion had a point, and agreed to the request.

Half way across, the scorpion stang the frog, and they both began to drown.

"But why did you break your word and sting me, knowing it would be certain death for us both?" cried the frog.

"Because it is in my nature." said the scorpion.

When it comes to 'surviving' a therapeutic relationship with someone who presents with borderline personality behaviour, "traditional" approaches to BP have been to "limit set" which can be like two trains colliding and will often turn into the focus of all interactions and care plans - to set limits.

It's not so funny on a busy med/surg unit or high acuity place where staff time is limited to deal with the 'other' presenting issues, but the times where I've been able to kick back and simply 'observe' the "games people play", clinicians usually end up having multiple meetings in order to be 'very clear' about 'the plan' and 'the limits' and it's often quite funny to see the turmoil that one person can create in such highly functioning professionals.

To be honest - I think that's what people with BP seek - to have decisions made for them and not to have to take responsibility. It helps reaffirm some beliefs they have of their world around them. It's probably comforting - but not good for a long term resolution as, of course, now you've started 'setting limits' you're tied to always setting limits.

I prefer to 'divert' rather than 'limit' - to intervene only when it's really necessary and to do so in a way that encourages personal responsiblity whilst also offering validation for who they are.

Here's my take.....

What do we know about BP?

Highly emotional - difficulty with relationships - persistently challenging - poor problem solving/decision making - deviant, conniving and manipulative behaviour. These are the main issues that flag up time after time.

What else do we know?

Most people with BP come with a chronic history of some form of abuse - neglect, physical, sexual, psychological - often a mix and frequently from more than one person responsible (tho one close person will sometimes be the only identifiable source and may be enough). There are few that do not have such a history apparently - tho I have met one for whom I could find no real evidence of significant childhood trauma which has always perplexed me - but by and large - and about 300+ BP clients I'm going with my own understanding.

How does history lead to presentation?

As I interpret - it's trust and dissonance.

For those with such histories it often involves people the child "trusted" - a parent, teacher, relative, family friend, religious leader.

Trust is breached by that person. As a child you know no better and this becomes how you understand the world around you; people cannot be trusted.

It also teaches you that being close to someone and trusting them does not protect you.

Dissonance arises when there is cognitive conflict - where two opposing beliefs clash: eg; killing is wrong - but war is ok. Generally we resolve these things ourselves - "they started it" or "if we don't do something, it will never get better". But in a child who needs to trust in order to get the things they need: food; shelter; protection from harm - when this is compromised they no longer know who to trust.

Thus my pervasive understanding with anyone who presents with Borderline Personality behaviour is to always start from the premise : this is a broken person who has lost the ability to trust anyone.

So when it comes to their clinical and behavioural presentation - how can we use this to better 'treat' the person?

This is what I keep in my BP tool box:

Highly emotional - Acceptance and tolerance. As long as they are doing no physical harm to anyone else - then I let them have a little more slack. I don't jump on them for every 'whinge' or complaint. I let them express their emotion without judgement or without trying to "fix" it.

Difficulty with relationships - Understand the issues of trust. Relationships need to be concrete and consistent. As a nurse I am aware that sometimes there are conflicts and I cannot be 100% as they want me so I compromise:

Be honest

Be sincere

Be tolerant of their issues with trust

Understand that any pressure to the relationship; any conflict that may seemingly arise between us is not personal - it is 'natural'.

Many times I've been bawled out or the target of verbal lashings - it's not easy but I let it go over my head, wait til they're done, and then see how they feel. This is where being consistent pays off.

Persistently challenging - In understanding the challenge - I understand who is challenged - and I make sure it's not me. Take nothing personal; don't even feel professionally judged - but do try to hear what they're really saying. Often, due to problem solving issues, they might not even know what their problems are or because they seem unsolveable, they 'create' another one that they are more comfortable with - eg I don't know how to deal with this inner emotional pain - so I will externalise it to someone else by arguing and getting it out that way.

Poor problem solving/decision making - Irrationality often prevents good decisions being made - it's not the same as manipulative behaviour but can often lead to it. When problems are accurately identified, walking through step by step on what the possible solutions are can help. It can also help to realise that it's not a problem - but it's a fact - but they will still need help in how to deal with acceptance.

Deviant, conniving and manipulative behaviour - Contrary to "traditional" views - this is the one I find the most "interesting". The lengths that some will go to in order to achieve the smallest of aims sometimes! Bottom line - if it's not hurting anyone; I don't get involved and let them play it out. The only risk of this approach is often they will "up the ante" to see how far they can push you to get you to 'react'. Never react - but feel free to 'respond'.

Often when it is apparent that someone is 'trying it on' or seems to be 'getting one over on you' - this is what gets to most professionals the most. It challenges the integrity of the clinician - their 'smarts' - and no-one wants to look like a fool. Unfortunately this is the place where most the damage to the relationship is done - because our own ego doesn't want to let go. It takes more integrity to 'step away' from the emotional aspect of feeling like someone is having at laugh at your expense and a lot of awareness to realise when this is happening because of the issues of trust.

My response is always (until they get right under my skin and I "react" then I need time out!) - re-locate responsibility back to the person. Most the behaviour is designed to distract, derail or divert from pathways the person isn't comfortable with - so back it up with some support for returning to the right track -

eg: "If you don't get me the docotor I'll kill myself"

....can be answered with - "Well, that would be a decision you'd have to make for yourself if that's what you decided to do."

- but don't leave them hanging there - you've just put a stone wall up - now you have to present an "out" .....

"But if you like I'm going to be done here in 5 minutes and then I have to attend 2 others and I can come back and we can talk about getting thye doc to come see you in about 20 minutes - is that ok?"

One thing about people with borderline personality behaviour that makes me angry.... is how easy it is to slap a BPD label on them and discard them to one side as untreatable, irrational - and to apply all those negative descriptors to them.

I think that says more about the integrity of the professional and the team than it does about the patient.

Above all I try to remember that anyone who presents to me with BP type behaviour is 99.99% likely to have some significant childhood trauma lurking in his/her history - so everytime I feel challenged or thwarted by their behaviour I remind myself that this was one of those that slipped through our "safety nets" and we weren't there when we should have been.

Those are my main tools in my BP toolbox. Maybe they'll be of use to someone else. Maybe not.

Specializes in Psych, ER, Resp/Med, LTC, Education.

some good points.......others....not so sure I agree with......and my statement of "setting limits" is a pretty broad statement and I think you took it differently then it was intended.......However I do have to say that I found much of this last post hard to even follow....sorry.....a bit tooooo long. Sometimes I think it's hard to put into words just exactly how you approach a particular type of patient......for me it just happens and I think little about it.........I guess I don't neccessarily analyse my interactions.....All I can say is the I actually like working with the BPD patients and tend to do quite well with them.

Funny thing....prior to working in the psych ED where I am now, I was on an inpatient unit and used to jokingly say "Geez I am looking at my assignment here and....hey why is it I have like every BPD patient here! 7/10 patients on my assignment are Borderline!" and I usually got a reply of --"We give them to you because you are good with them and they all ask for you all the time anyways not to mention you are one of the few here who have the patience to deal with them!"

So....what ever I am doing....I guess it is good.

Specializes in psych. rehab nursing, float pool.

Mr Ian, loved your post.

I use to recite in my head on those trying days ,( keep em alive till 35). It helped me keep things in perspective when having too many of them on the unit at one time.

Specializes in mental health; hangover remedies.
Sometimes I think it's hard to put into words just exactly how you approach a particular type of patient......for me it just happens and I think little about it..

Indeed - I'm not suggesting mine is the only way to interact. It's what you're comfortable with and what works that counts.

What's of key importance I think we'll agree is - whatever you are doing - you do it consistently.

I also used to get blessed with the 'problem case' on admission. But I actually have a lot of time for them.

Specializes in behavioral health.

A psychiatrist told me once that people with BPD tend to mellow out as they get older due to more time to form their personality. I find that you get fewer BPD patients who are 60 versus 25 (although I am really new at this). In my opinion BPD can be a very hasty label and I dislike how they are dismissed as "borderlines" rather than being referred to as people. One patient would get really upset if we burst into the room and turned on the light without warning. Collegues called him "borderline", but I found it very easy to be a bit more gentle when waking him up and he appreciated it. At the VA, we were trained to never abruptly wake up a patient! They even 'warned' the nursing students about him, but he was one of the only patients who would even talk to the students. Abuse is so damaging to ones inner core and it breaks my heart. I wish they could all reclaim their lives back. A lot of patients respond really well to kindness, consideration, and listening to them as long as you don't fall for "You're the only nurse who cares about me so and so is mistreating me/ I won't tell anyone if you let me do this/ just this one time/ etc".

They only type of patient I really frustrated with is the drug-addicted patients who yell at you to give them more meds and call the doc if you can't.

Specializes in mental health; hangover remedies.
A psychiatrist told me once that people with BPD tend to mellow out as they get older due to more time to form their personality.

They only type of patient I really frustrated with is the drug-addicted patients who yell at you to give them more meds and call the doc if you can't.

Well I've never thought of where do all "the borderlines" go after 50 years old... ! But it's true - they kinda disappear off the radar. That's got me intrigued now...

As for the drug-seeking addicted pt - yes - it's a difficult scenario. I've done the "no, you don't need extra meds" argument - until they're so wound up ,.... they need extra meds.... and so do I .... lol :banghead:

Drug addiction is a soul and personality destroying state of affairs to be in - but it's odd how we seem to dole out meds to those who aren't really enjoying them.... yet those who want them.. we won't.

It's like when patient's used to abscond from the (not always) secure unit and the staff would be so 'angry' at them..... but I'd remind them - if they wanted to stay here, they'd have to be mad.

A psychiatrist told me once that people with BPD tend to mellow out as they get older due to more time to form their personality. I find that you get fewer BPD patients who are 60 versus 25 (although I am really new at this). In my opinion BPD can be a very hasty label and I dislike how they are dismissed as "borderlines" rather than being referred to as people. One patient would get really upset if we burst into the room and turned on the light without warning. Collegues called him "borderline", but I found it very easy to be a bit more gentle when waking him up and he appreciated it. At the VA, we were trained to never abruptly wake up a patient! They even 'warned' the nursing students about him, but he was one of the only patients who would even talk to the students. Abuse is so damaging to ones inner core and it breaks my heart. I wish they could all reclaim their lives back. A lot of patients respond really well to kindness, consideration, and listening to them as long as you don't fall for "You're the only nurse who cares about me so and so is mistreating me/ I won't tell anyone if you let me do this/ just this one time/ etc".

They only type of patient I really frustrated with is the drug-addicted patients who yell at you to give them more meds and call the doc if you can't.

Interesting what the psychiatrist said about BPD's mellowing with age. I'm not in psych nsg so I haven't researched or seen much proof but it makes sense. It's a hopeful thought anyway,.,Perhaps there's some dissonance at work that allows BPD's to resolve some social/psych issues as they age.

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