Pros and Cons of Excelsior Program

Nursing Students Online Learning

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per request, here is a sticky where you can feel free to post the pros and cons of why or why you do not like the program. please keep all posts to this area.

please remember that you are debating the topic only, no personal attacks will be tolerated.

play nice, or do not play.

Specializes in icu.

so if you're an ec grad and worked in another state as an rn for say 2 years california will still not let you be an rn? that makes no sense. if you're working as an rn and passed the nclex what's the difference?

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Specializes in icu.
I just received notification of changes in the Excelsior program yesterday. The clinical now includes head to toe physical assessment and clincial experience in a hospital type environment. Also, C3 is now 2 exams with different titles. The total is now 8 exams with each 3 instead of 4 hours credit. Thank goodness I enrolled in March. They apparently will do whatever it takes to stay in the game.

how do you get hospital experience in their program?

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I transferred from an ADN program, Excelsior required two semesters successfully completed because in those two semesters, in the ADN program candidates must successfully perform a head to toe physical assessment in each level to progress as well as pass test off's in all skills, like IV, injections, and tube care and dosage calculation proficiency. This may be diffierent for the LPN; I'm not sure. CA is concerned about clinicals, if you have worked as an RN in other states, seems to me that would settle that. If that is where you want to work contact them. I plan to pursue my BSN locally immediately, so I won't have all my education all tied to Excelsior.

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How much does it cost to take courses through Excelsior??

Does anybody know about Michigan laws in relation to online nursing programs??

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so if you're an ec grad and worked in another state as an rn for say 2 years california will still not let you be an rn? that makes no sense. if you're working as an rn and passed the nclex what's the difference?

the difference is that you're dealing with control freaks, who'd rather sideline a good nurse than think beyond a simplistic rule. the difference is a new grad, who knows nothing compared to an experienced nurse would be allowed licensure.

alas. if somehow governer arnold could get some of the women on the board of nursing reassigned outside on the roadways with garbage bags and have them pick up garbage rather than pontificating so incompetently, california would actually have a better functioning health care system. pathetic, but true.

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the difference is that you're dealing with control freaks, who'd rather sideline a good nurse than think beyond a simplistic rule. the difference is a new grad, who knows nothing compared to an experienced nurse would be allowed licensure.

alas. if somehow governer arnold could get some of the women on the board of nursing reassigned outside on the roadways with garbage bags and have them pick up garbage rather than pontificating so incompetently, california would actually have a better functioning health care system. pathetic, but true.

It's not a "simplistic rule," it's the law. That's what the lawsuit was about, and that's why Excelsior lost. If the Board of Nursing is so incompetent then, why did the courts uphold their decision? But I guess you'll say the four judges who backed their decision are also incompetent and should be picking up garbage ... :rolleyes:

Instead of insulting people for upholding the law, maybe you should focus on getting the law changed. You can't blame any state board or the courts for enforcing the law. This really is a legislative issue more than anything else.

:typing

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why is it "the law"? it's an adminstrative rule passed by the board of nursing, which has the legal authority to make. a judge would have to uphold it, not agree with it.

it's painting with a broad brush. i'll guarantee there are experienced ec grads who could nurse circles around around the new nurses graduating from california nursing schools. to deny them licensure is simply ridiculous, and speaks of a board that's politically motivated. let's get real for a moment.

idiotic administrative rulings are just that, idiotic admistrative rulings, no matter who makes them. i don't see why i need to elevate it to some whistfully admired, etched in stone commandment.

and to help california's budget crisis, i'd be only too happy to supply a package of garbage bags! and yes, it's true. get these women on the side of the road picking up garbage, and i truly believe society would be better off.

again, where is the evidence? oh yes, it's a secret! goverment in the dark doesn't serve well, and this is a prime example.

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why is it "the law"? it's an adminstrative rule passed by the board of nursing, which has the legal authority to make. a judge would have to uphold it, not agree with it.

I don't think you're understanding the legal issue. The actual statute states that out-of-state grads have to attend schools with the same curriculum requirements as California schools. The board can't change that statute, only the legislature can. What the board can do is change the curriculum requirements, but that means they'd have to throw out all of the clinical requirements for the 100 or so programs in the state and, obviously, it makes no sense do that.

again, where is the evidence? oh yes, it's a secret! goverment in the dark doesn't serve well, and this is a prime example.

The evidence is posted right here on this board on another thread. To wit:

When I went to interview with a major hospital here in Northern California, the recruiter outright said they "didn't hire Excelsior RN grads". She did follow that with a "sorry", it was "company policy".

If you don't think that policy comes from evidence of problems with the program then, ok, but it's not the first time that people have posted similar stories on this board.

:typing

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why is it "the law"? it's an adminstrative rule passed by the board of nursing, which has the legal authority to make. a judge would have to uphold it, not agree with it.

Where there is total power without any form of accountability, there is always going to be corruption, especially when it comes to any form of California administrative agency. Although the decision by neither the BRN, nor the opinion of the administrative law judge makes Law or Statute, the process that has occurred does make this decision "Law." In short, when someone appeals a decision of an administrative agency, the issue goes before an administrative law judge (ALJ), who has the power to make an opinion based on a set of facts. When the ALJ makes an opinion, it is still ultimately up to the agency (BRN) whether to accept the opinion or not. Should the moving party, in this case Excelsior, be dissatisfied with either the ALJ's opinion, or the agencies decision related to the opinion, the moving party can file an extraordinary writ, or a writ of mandamus (writ of mandate) This is an appellate proceeding within a California Superior or appellate court, and in essence, everything starts from scratch (trial de novo) and the rules of evidence which are limiting within an administrative action provide for an increase in discovery.

At any rate, when the superior or court of appeals makes a decision, in the absence of Statute, the decision from the jurist in essence becomes precedent or case Law, unless overturned by a higher court, or addressed by statute down the road.

The BRN is completely aware that courts always tend to side with them, because they are charged with public safety and they claim they are the experts on such issues. This is why there is very little, if any defense, to what every an opposing party argues, because who can argue with the notion to always side or error in the favor of public safety? Again, as in this case, corruption always follows where there is absolute power with little, if any accountability.

In physiology we learn that certain physiological principles mediate responses in the body. We learn that endorphins are released in response to pleasure or other forms of activities. We often experience this ourselves when we help patients as nurses, as the high of helping others. BRN staffers experiences this when they destroy dreams and create hardships for those who only want to be part of the helping professions when going through a regular brick and mortar school is unrealistic. This is clearly evidenced by the BRN's gleeful response related to the Courts decision related to Excelsior College. Again, who can argue anything contrary to an assertion of doing things in the interest of public safety from any government body? As in any other profession, it takes all kinds.

But then again, what do I know, the BRN could be right, just like the world could be flat and that hand washing makes no difference in the spread of disease.

As far as picking up trash on the side of the highways, I don't think they would be qualified.

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BRN staffers experiences this when they destroy dreams and create hardships for those who only want to be part of the helping professions when going through a regular brick and mortar school is unrealistic.

That is ridiculous. Case in point:

Last fall my school started working on a night-weekend program for students on the two year waiting list with the idea of getting them into the program sooner. Since there's no money in the state budget to fund taking additional students, two hospitals are going to pay for 20 students to start this unique program in the fall in exchange for contracts agreeing to work for the hospitals after they graduate. The students will attend night classes and do labs-clinicals on weekends with school instructors.

The school was able to get the board to approve this unique program in less than a year. They're hoping to do the same with other hospitals and take even more students for the spring '07 semester.

UoP is also working on a BSN program that will combine online classes with concurrent clinicals. The board estimates that this program will be approved in 2-3 years.

If the board was hell bent on destroying people's dreams, as you put it, and not making accomodations for working adults ... none of this would be happening. But it is.

All the board wants is for programs to meet the requirements. They don't care how they do it, as long as they do it in compliance with state laws and regulations. Until recently, EC was not interested in doing this, and that's why they're in the position they are in today.

:typing

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lizz, who interprets what equivilance of curriculum means? i truly doubt there is a state statute worded in a way that excludes excelsior. it's the interpretation by the bon that does it. one could say that nln accreditation makes equivilance. in florida, for example, equivilance of education is met by simply sitting for the nclex in another state, which allows for excelsior nurses to be endorsed into florida.

are you suggesting that there was a law passed by the legislature that resulted in the overnight disqualification of excelsior students. please point me to that law, and show me how it was passed on the day the california board disallowed excelsior.

chester, i'd agree that picking up the trash would be extremely challenging for these board members, but i'd be willing to train them. in fact, i've decided to send the california board of nursing a pack of garbage bags, with a letter giving detailed instructions on their use.

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lizz, why don't you tell us why an rn who has been working in another state for 2 years, with years of experience as an lpn would be less qualified than a new grad who has never worked a day?

because it's the decision of a bunch of control freaks who ignore the obvious reality of the situation?

sorry, but while you support it, blind authoritarianism simply disgusts me.

as an ec grad, however, i've got 49 other states that i can work in :). when i did my cpne, the ca's, who were nursing school instructors, told me that i belonged in critical care based on my cpne performance. i guess they're not qualified to pass judgement, huh?

i'm actually proud to be in a group of nurses the california board of nursing wouldn't license. i wouldn't have it any other way.

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