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  1. injured1

    Desperate and need advice

    Thanks for the reply. Yes, I was told they have afternoon clinicals and it would be no problem and would be placed in there. In fact, they had none. Reason why I went to the school. There are nursing schools way closer to me so I drive 2-3x the distance thinking I had afternoons. The most sleep I have gotten is 3 hours. Most clinicals zero sleep. This time it was 2hrs in 4 days. If it just happened 1 time like that, but since my body is overall sleep deprived because the above......this time, I ended up in the E.R. I was dizzy, slow to walk, and my body ached all over because no sleep. This is not like a.." I worked 12 hours, then slept crappy." This is a constant. I think in my opening I wrote too much and some took it as, I got accepted to the school, and then I wanted the school to morph around one student. No, I had a 30 minute conversation with the Director of Nursing before even applying because of the sleep issue. Then the new DON, I talked to when accepted. Had anything like, " We can't guarrantee afternoons." or something like that, I would have walked. If I wanted early hours...there are nursing schools much closer. Also, I have a scholarship who is aware of the sleep issues, and sold them on this school because of the afternoons. I left that out of the original post. Had I known, then I could have had the scholarship apply elsewhere. Yeah, sucks to be a night owl ( for whatever reason it can be from ). However, hopefully you are reaping the benefits from it now.....like night shift. Thanks for the reply though. I am just stuck on what to do. I can handle the academics and the clinical( pooh, blood, transferring, medication etc etc )......it's just the time with relation to sleep. I would be shocked to see what I could do with sleep...even 5 hrs. That's how I got A's in patho, Physics, Advanced phys, Micro, Pharm, Ap1 and 2, abnormal psych, etc etc......Is that afternoon I was more alert. So A's. Nursing it's B's.
  2. injured1

    Failed for Clinical-but no proof

    My take: I am a nursing student. I also have health issues. I lost 3/4 of an organ.....sucks lol and have sleep issues and not under stress sleep issues, even when not in class, or in school.....on breaks I have sleep issues everyday. Being up early just exacerbates the issues much much worse. Always discuss things with your instructor first! It can be intimidating and nursing school might make you feel so anxious, that you are too nervous to communicate to a possible unstable issue ( because you are anxious all the time ). However, this is the golden role. I get it, it may not make sense, and at times....it does not. However, there are two types of nurses, " Those Who Eat Their Young", and will want to rat anyone out for a mistake ( not even malicious mistake )....or " Don't Snitch."..AKA we are a team screw the nurses eat their young..... - So based on those types, obviously from your instructor's email....she was the don't snitch type. However, by going around her, you turned her into the..Nurses eat their young type. I know it sounds screwed up.....but we never said this was a logical environment did we? The rationale behind the " Don't Snitch type", is to see how you would act in the real world had a problem arise. Do you go to the charge nurse and report someone? Do you go to the physician? Do you complain and a family over heas you? - In fact, to my last point. My last clinical, I had a question for my nursing instructor....she walked into my pt's room and said, " What's up?"...I then gestured with my finger and under a calm tone, said, "Lets talk out here." I was pointing to the hallway. See in the pt's room was his wife. However, I am not to presume that the wife should know everything. So I made the conversation at a more greater distance, even despite my instructor willing to talk in the room- usually with a family member, it is ok and usually done.....however, we are students...so all you have is your grades and name to protect... Seems some of the stuff was petty, and it does seem you bumped heads the wrong way and both were probably at fault. I agree that a nursing instructor should have came to you and let you know.....you will fail. So atleast you can withdraw with a W and not get an F. I say this because....this is just logic. If I said ," Dear Mr. Jones...Take My Class Any Further And I Will Fail You." You probably are going to just withdrawo instead of putting in the work and getting an F. It just makes sense lol. A 'W" is better than a "D". Secondly, if you are going to complain....complain on here or with your friends, not with faculty.....at least before you show that you tried to contact your professor/instructor about the issue. Leave a trail....via email or phone call. Nowadays, you have a call log on your cell phone. Basically have proof you tried to reach out to your instructor. Don't believe I don't just talk, but do what I say. I wrote on here about what to do....before I did it. I called my instructor and left a message on VM. So now that is a trail. I also have documentation of what I was talking about. Will it work in my favor? Who knows......but I built an ok relationship with professors that if I am to be screwed....atleast I will get the heads up. I ended up in the E.R over health issues. Nothing I can do.....But just follow protocol and do what is best. My issues are I was told the program offered afternoons....before and after acceptance....they do NOT ....so that screws my health issues. Can I call student affairs and disability services to complain....absolutely!!! Did I do it? No. You know why? The Director would be tossed in there.....and I can't change, even though I was told twice.....I can't change they don't have afternoons. So, I can try in the program.....or back out. If I choose to go to student affairs, then I might as well withdraw or be willing to accept I would have to withdraw lol. So.....it's a love...hate relationship.. I have: a 3.8 G.P.A....with 115 credit hours. I have showed up to everything, and didn't toss the director under a bus. They have: My Future grades.......and my finishing my Nursing degree. What it comes down to....is picking and choosing your battles. You know...you don't learn this over night. Had I been a freshman, I probably would have bumped heads like crazy and proved the facts of the matter and the principle of the point, but no doubt it would be a little, "Extra", harder to pass skill evals- trust me, me having health issues and shutting up for the most part and showing up, when those who are healthy and complain and have all their organs....it might help me on skill evals where subjectivity is there. I have 3 semesters left and I am done.....if it works out, it may not. Look I am not an expert, but I hope something from what I wrote helped. If you are going to fight the school, and you do win.....I would though prepare to look at other schools.....and seriously the next semester you have issues.....don't wait till letter grades, hit the W button. So when you go to another university, you don't have to explain the F. Once your time at this school is done, you have to think about yourself....an F is not smart when you know it might be coming. That is my two cents, but I could be missing a penny, and remember nursing isn't rocket surgery, it's protocol!- Yeah just made that up just now....tired as crap!
  3. injured1

    Desperate and need advice

    Thanks for your reply. I wasn't being childish I think you need to read this in its entirety. I was not asking them to fix their program around 1 student, that wouldn't make sense. What I did do, is called and asked the Director of Nursing if they had afternoons ( AKA innately ). They said they did and even confirmed this by stating that they sometimes are forced to move students in the afternoon because most want mornings. I then stated why I was asking if they had afternoons. The Director said it wouldn't be a problem. So that is the reason why I applied, that they innately had afternoons/evenings. When I spoke with the new director ( 3 in 3 years for this program ), I recanted in brief the convo with previous director just a few months earlier. This new director stated they would uphold what the previous director stated in our conversation. So this was not me asking them to bend their program around 1 student, it was me asking ( innately ) and being honest by explaining after I asked, why I was asking. This is the reason I drive twice as long this program than those around me. An employer, you work mid or night shift. I have talked to an N.P. I was asking if it was worth all this? It's not pure insomnia. I wish it was for only 3 days a week...I wish lol. It's different than pure insomnia. I didn't write the above to insult you, but to clarify. I can't change what the Director said the program had etc etc. I am glad you reached your goals as an N.P. Did you go straight for nursing into N.P school? Thanks for the response.
  4. injured1

    Desperate and need advice

    Hi, I need your advice. I am a nursing student with a 3.8 G.P.A with 115 credit hours. Yes I have taken Pharm, Ap1 and Ap2, Advanced physiology , micro, Algebra 4, Physics, Patho etc etc. My nursing G.P.A is just a 3.0. My overall is based upon the 115 credit hours outside core nursing classes, like Fundamentals etc. I am at the point where I don't know what to. I suffer from sleep wake disorder. Basically my body doesn't naturally sleep until 3 A.M.....from there I can get 6-7 hours of sleep. This is important information. Before I applied to this Nursing program, I called the Director of Nursing. I asked if they offered evening or afternoon clinicals, they DON replied yes they did, in fact sometimes they have to force students in afternoons because most want mornings. So I applied based on this ( see my sleep patterns ). I get accepted. Upon acceptance, I met with a new nursing director ( DON ). This is their third Director in 3 years. When I met with the new DON, 2 months after the previous conversation with the previous DON, I had a sheet of 7 questions, 3 pertained to my sleep, if none of these could be checked off, I was not going to. I looked the new DON directly in the face and gave a brief summary of what me and the old DON talked about in regards to afternoon clinicals. I then said, they were a new DON and did not have to honor what the old DON two months previously stated in regards to afternoons. I informed the new DON with documentation of my sleep circadian rythym disorder. The new DON informed me she would uphold what the last DON said two-3 months previous and afternoons are there, Well I got my schedule in end of August and it said 6:30 in the morning. I then went to the DON and stated their must have been an error in schedule. I got the reply that they didn't have afternoons ( which defies the convo I had with her and the old DON previous ). She did state that next semester they probably will have afternoons, and if she known they had a student with a disorder, she would have pressed for an afternoon ( which again is here say, on the premise she new when I got accepted ). I go through a semester with limited sleep. Showing up to exams with 1 hr of sleep. Going to clinicals with no sleep, and almost got into two car accidents on the way. I passed all my skills on no sleep. Got a B in my first semester nursing classes. Next semester roles around, .....get my schedule, no afternoons yet again.....it was one deceptive statement after another. Well now I am desperate. I would have only 3 semesters to go. However, I only got 2 hours of sleep in 4 days. On a clinical this past week, I thought I would barely make it. I was in the shower and my body dropped to one knee as the water hit my back. I did make to clinical on time, but my body was shot. I took care of a Parkinson's pt ( that is all I will divulged ) and was in their room from 7:30 A.M-10:00...bc not stop requests and multi commode, and had to transport many times. I am sure the Nurse was thinking, "Glad we got this guy here." . I talked with the wife and seen every body fluid besides blood. That's when I knew, I can handle this from a nursing prospective, academics....always a straight A student. In patho 98.8 %, Micro 97%, Advanced phys, 95%, AP1 and Ap2 A's...etc etc. This is not gloating, this is just letting you know how torn I am. I am torn and desperate for opinions because my sleep. Now, I am not going to bed at 3 A.M and sleeping till 11, even on my off days. My whole rythym, which was off already got worse. I think it is because of my body now use to almost no sleep on a daily basis because of what I was open about, with afternoons. So this past week I went 4 days with only 2 hrs of sleep. My whole body ached from sleep deprivation, I was dizzy while walking. My girlfriend took me to the E.R, I was desperate. The E.R Doc asked if they could give afternoons.....I explained the situation....they were suppose to. I got injected with 2mg Ativan and took an antihistamine for sleep. It still didn't hit me....so after 2 hrs of sleep in 5 days, I slept 5 hours yesterday, I am dizzy and fatigued to where I can't study much. I even brought my powerpoints to the E.R to study. I just don't know if I can continue to do this to my body. However, I only would have 3 semesters after this to finish. It's a shame because on the last clinical I was given the worst pt out of all, even the Clinical coordinator told me this, and I handled it with 2 hrs of sleep, and at the time 2 hrs in 3 days. I just don't know what to do. I am thinking about withdrawing. I have a test on Tuesday, that since my sleep has been so deprived, I couldn't study....although the N.P at the E.R gave me an excuse for the whole week. However, you know the politics of nursing school, I use the medical excuse and.....you're screwed. AM I wrong? Yes, I do take sleep meds, Xanax, doxepin, and melononin and still nothing. Even with the 2mg IM of Ativan with al that, just 5 hours of sleep. I can see if I was just having troubles sleeping for a morning clinical and that was it...I can live with one day a week. However, you have to understand this is 5 days of the week. Should I stay? Drop? I am desperate. All of this could have been midigated had the Nursing DON's just been honest about the clinicals up front, or delivered on what they said. However, it is what it is.
  5. injured1

    Oversupply of Nurse Practitioners

    Really? My situation...Only 2 classes from going into P.A school, only 2 classes from Pharmacy school, and only 2 classes away from Direct entry into Occupational Therapy, My undergrad is like a pre-everything. However, I went nursing because I only need 8 classes to get R.N and then hop into N.P school. However, I do not want to do family practice ( I know this coming in ). I opted NOT to go into OT because their tuition is around 75k for just 2-3 years of grad school. Plus everyone wants to become OT. I think there was only 10,000 OTs National wide, now 30,000. In my nursing program an OTA( occupational therapy assitant ) is in the class. I asked why....why not go OTA to an OT bridge program? Like how RNs to N.P? She replied with the same thing I didn't go direct entry into grad school with OT, the cost. Ots make about $35 an hr where I live, which where I live it is 10% below the national average in income ( not for OT but just in general ). So OTs do well for the cost of living. However, if you add undergrad and grad debt to be an OT, it would be around 130k to make $35 an hr. So, I said, welp.....Nursing then N.P it is. I got accepted into every nursing program I applied ( should have applied to more ). However, my whole focus is N.P. Nursing is eh....we spend 15 minutes on a wash cloth fold and 1 minute on shock. Is this normal? I mean for infection control.......I studied the labs, Basophils, Moncytes etc for infection...if they elevate or drop etc. I also thought there would be scenerio based questions on this with these labs and science? You know what we were tested on....Bed linens..on infection control? I was pizzed. I studied the book, the study guide, the power points in red and all what I studied was not on test, but bed linens....The prof I guess uses not her power points, the assigned book and the assigned study guide, but outside sources. Anyone have this? Anyway to the point, if N.P is going to be Like O.T.....then man. My Profs already know I am not in it for nursing itself. I actually was breaking down chemistry with one of the profs who has it for grad school for Doctorate Degree they are taking. I took Pharm and took that with an M.D and also my Patho was taught by an M.D, along with my AP2 class. So, I learned how the drugs work at the chemical level. I didn't use a drug handbook in Pharm because I just memorized generics and knew how each class worked. If you know how they work, then you can kind of predict why they would take how long and possible sides and tie that into patho and abnormal psychology( which I took as well ). Although trade names, I am screwed lol. However, this thinking does not seem to be any relevance for nursing, but who knows my first semester.
  6. injured1

    Fundamentals Nursing Outlines?

    @Apmarquez, we use perry and potter, but they are linked to elsevier, like the EAQ etc. Where did you find the chapter summaries? Did you use resources for the fundamentals, we use 9th edition? I tried resources but just found questions and rationales. Just curious to see where you find them, might have skipped it.
  7. injured1

    Fundamentals Nursing Outlines?

    Hi, Thanks for reply. Yeah our power points will be like Theories=framework for practices then underneath that, just say Orem's thoery( However, with no definition etc ). One slide just says Caregiver, comforter, cummunicator, educator, and manager, with patient advocate in RED. No definitions, or roles just those words. Does anyone find these power points odd? People who had this prof said they didn't really read the book.....but looking at the powerpoints, I am not sure. So, I was looking for condensed versions of chapter or something.
  8. injured1

    Fundamentals Nursing Outlines?

    Hi, I was asking where do people get outlines ( usually condensed, gets rid of fluff ) for Fundamentals of Nursing? I see people talking about it on youtube, but when I do a search, hard to find. Some say they used ,"Knowledge check outlines." I cannot find these anywhere. A side note, how did you guys study for fundamentals? My prof's power points are pretty bad. They just have a term or word with no definition or anything. Some people say, don't read the book....others say just read the first sentence of each chapter and bolded words only....
  9. injured1

    Nursing Program Cause For Concern?

    Hi, Thanks for the reply. They are a somewhat religious catholic school( don't know if they slam it down into someone, but religious ) tied into a hospital. They are accredited. Their NCLEX pass rate one year was 98% and last year was 100%. All the above, in the post, made me nervous.
  10. injured1

    Nursing Program Cause For Concern?

    Hi, SO I battled between going into OT( occupational Therapy ) and getting an A.D.N and then Nurse practitioner. I decided Nursing. I didn't have the chance to shadow an N.P. However, I got to shadow an OT. That being said, I got accepted into nursing school. I got A's in PathoPhysiology, Micro, Ap1 and Ap2, Algebra, Physics, and Genetics Nutrition. The problem? When I was taking patho at another university, I told their scool adviser I planned to go to the program....that I now got accepted in. Their immediate reaction was this, " Why would you go to that Nursing program." I was caught off guard. I replied because it fit around my schedule a little better. He then replies, " Why would you want to go there, it's a rough program and cost a lot of money. " He then retorted, " Just go to the school you are at now."........What I dislike about this convo is he never told me " Why" not to go besides the school being costly and rough. However, everyone's definition of " Rough " is different. I mean my AP might have been considered, " Rough " by some. I wish he would have told me why. ....However, I wish maybe I would have listened. I texted a student in the program....they had 90 people in the day option and 18 at night. They lost 40 people in the first two semesters. 5 by dropping, 35 to failing! Furthermore, a class in 2010 had 50 in the day and ended with 18 only. It seems they only have about a 40-50% retention( pass/fail...drop out ) rate. This year's class has 130 people. So they do good on the NCLEX pass rate. 98% one year and 100% previous. However, what they are not stating is that there is a very very low chance of getting the chance to take it because of failure. I contacted other schools, B.S.N and A.D.N...their drop out/fail rate was only 10-15%. They also took it personally if someone failed( the other schools ). To couple this, tuition if you add on all these additional fees, equals $625 per credit hour for an A.D.N. Luckily, I only need to take 1 nursing class per semester because all the sciences I have knocked out with 103 semester credit hours I have. So all I have is the nursing classes to take. However, I feel as if, this school just accepts a lot of people, see the numbers, and they don't care if you fail. Basically the $$$ matters. I could be wrong, but....I have to say, the numbers don't look good. Their currciulum, you have 13 tests. 4 Exams, a comprehensive final( exam 5 ), 4 math dosages quizzes and 4 medical term quizzes, if you miss spell a letter it is wrong ) Did I make a mistake? Also anything below a 80%, no rounding up...you fail. If you can't check off a skill and miss it more than twice, you fail. A 85% is a C. If you fail a care plan more than once...you fail. Should I have listened to the advisor at the other school??? A lot of people take their pre-reqs at that school. I am really nervous. Also to lecture, you can't wear jeans, hoodies, etc. Not clinical, I get that, I mean a lecture. So I wore a suit to orientation lol. Again, my goal is to become an N.P in psych and SNF/Rehab setting. Thanks.
  11. injured1

    Mercy College of Northwest Ohio

    How did everyone do at Mercy? I was told the attrition rate is really really high.
  12. injured1

    Mercy College of NW Ohio ADRN ?

    How much time a day did you study?
  13. Hi, I got accepted into nursing school. My questions directly are below. However, I was debating between OT( Occupational Therapy ) and Nursing to become a Nurse Practitioner. It was very hard to be able to get a chance to shadow an N.P( literally impossible ). However, I got to shadow an OT. I already have taken numerous sciences., I have 100 semester credit hours..Pathophysiology, Physics, Ap1 and Ap2, Chemistry, Medical Term, Micro Biology...getting all A's besides a B in chemistry. I also got an A in Advanced Physiology. Even though I got a 98% in both AP2 and Patho....I also sat in on the courses with other professors( so basically twice despite the A's ) if I felt I didn't learn enough or get the most out of the class. I record my lectures in AP and Patho, and well a lot of students and even a nurse tell me I do not think like a nurse. I have gotten that quite a bit. I realize healthcare has a business component to it, on top of that, I like the science behind it. Ex. If someone breaks their clavicle, I would be more concerned where the break is than pain level, how it will likely heal, and instruct a person on why not to do certain things. Reasoning, if it doesn't heal right and orders and not followed, there is a chance it can not heal right, and we are rebreaking it. Also, say with low testosterone....many just look at TT levels. However, why is someone's Test low? Instead of just injecting testosterone with low levels, which can be dx as a code of hypogonadism, and getting reimbursed....why don't we check out why it is low. How about the pit. gland functioning first? Thyroid? Then once the problem, not the symptom has been established, then treat. So, in a nutshell....that is how I think...a small sample size. However my questions are this because working conditions are important, stress level, salary, mobility to move up,etc. My questions are: How many hours a week do you work usually? Also can you fluctuate your hours? OT can change up their schedule. Instance, as long as some just put in the 8 hours in a time slot within the hours of 6 a.m to say around 7 p.m. Thanks for reading and replying.
  14. A question. What was your schools grading scale? Example, 90-100% A, 80-90% B etc. Also what was considered failure, most schools it is at 75%, some are 80%. Just curious.
  15. injured1

    Mercy college of Ohio ASN 2016

    You said your class started out with 90, then had 45 , then it became 17. Why such a fail/drop rate? That is only about 19% retention overall. Wonder why.
  16. injured1

    How much do YOU think nurses are worth?

    I am a student. However, I always remembered a quote. " The Pen is mightier than the sword." Example, you get pulled over by a cop....do you fear his gun, or what he writes? Most file a report after the facts. Also, it's their report. Can it be Bias? Yes. However, the pen is mightier. I think if we talk value....Nurse Practitioners could make an argument. Their pen makes money. Giving orders, writing scripts etc. Without that, ( Docs, PAs, NPs ) orders don't get filled. X-rays are minimal, medication dispensed that the hospital and Pharmacy makes way over 100% in their investment does not happen. I think it comes down to reimbursements, the dx code of patients and services provided. A N.P could argue this hard core. If the hospital( and it will ) make x amount of dollars in profit off the ( Doc, N.P, P.A ), based on the DX codes etc ....This is direct worth. Indirectly, they make hospitals more money, by their Pen! Meds, X-rays, Ultrasounds..... So I guess the question is where do Nurses fall into the cut, as the worker. Well anytime your employed, you will never be paid what your worth...or else the company would not make money off you, hence not make profit. I mean patients are now called clients, aren't they? The more a company can make off you, the better for them. That is business. If you gave a medication that costs say .50 cents, and the insurance gets billed $7 for that pill. The hospital just made a 1400% profit, hand an I.V bag....How long did it take you to do it? How much did the hospital charge the " Client ". How much of the client's insurance paid the charge? What dx codes were put in...so the said client could be billed? The last part should not matter, bc the Pen is stronger than the sword. However, if you think for one minute, a hospital HR Director is losing sleep over a stressed out Nurse, who cares about their " Patients"....and that might be the reason they are stressed out...and who is underpaid! You might be kidding yourself. Supply vs demand concept? I think not. There are demand for Nurses. I admit, as a male, Salary plays a factor into going into Nursing. Funny quote, which was sexist, but I agree....A director told a B.S.N.." The moment a field makes money with security, Men will start to join it." I laughed....bc well...in today's P.C era, where ppl are told to hinder the truth to spite a feeling....this is probably an accurate statement, from a Female Nurse with experience. I am a male, so I laughed. So lets take away supply and demand. I say this because with every pen, typically something needs carried out. Can Doctors, P.As, and N.Ps draw blood? Yes. Can they hang an I.V? Yes. Can they despense meds? Yes. Can they put a catheter in? Yes. Do they want to? No. Hello Nurses. Also, if they did do those things, they are spending less time with a Pen...which equals money. This would hurt hospitals. So, I think you need to go back to the first things, How much is the hospital making off that Med at over 1000% profit, and you hanging an I.V, etc. How long did it take you to do that work? Example if the hospital made $400 profit, off what it took 10 minutes to do. Now someone has to put that dx code in. Who is managing those codes? How much is it to use that computer system where your intaking the patient? So obviously there are cuts that come out of that $400 profit. Also among that, is what is being reimbursed out of that $400, that took 10 minutes. Since Nurses don't have Pen Power....You can't use the Dx variable. One can argue, P.As should be paid more, and N.Ps...for those reasons. As they , well in private practice, are driving force behind the numbers. However, how much profit is there during this Profit gain off Clients doing protocals..or work? I think then, we can make an argument.....Nurses indeed should be paid more. However, you will never be paid what your worth because, the hospital would make no money or a lot less money. My Opinion, I do want to say again...I AM NOT A NURSE. I am a student. However, I do like to understand the human body as a whole, I do like looking at data to improve patient outcomes, and do like analytics, and most effective ways to streamline. I know, I might be out my place, out of my element, in which, I am not a Nurse yet myself. However, I digress. If you asked me this question 5 years ago, I would of said, Yeah $25-30 an hr for a nurse is about right! That's before....All the above, and really studying my Butt off. Tbh, I grew much more respect for Nurses. I think let me simplify my thought...There are other professions who covet nursing, and think Nurses make $100k, and wish they were in your shoes. Don't believe me? Go to other forums...like public health, People with Masters in Biology. So it's not the lack of respect for Nurses in other areas, it's just....the lack of understanding at an inflated belief. My two cents, and I could be missing a penny. Nurses should make $4-5 more an hour than whatever their average is now. Some might counter this premise, and say well, then N.Ps would need to make more. Uh yes, they should as well. However, you get paid more for caring for your "Patients", while HR gets enough from their "Clients" in this Moq example...there is budget and profit. So, let's say in an area that a nurse makes $26-28 an hour. Would this change and help others, $30-34 an hour. Of course there is a $4 margin of error because different backgrounds, experience, education, etc. I grew more respect for Nurses and congrats in all your efforts. Yes, as a mere student, I think Nurses are underpaid, but should it be 150k? I would say, maybe that is the true worth, somewhere in the numbers. However, would you have a place to work if those were the numbers? Do I think Nurses....should make more, Yes! Also understand, if you have one Nurse willing to take less, that plays the role of the drive down. I know I will get flack for writing this, but .....here it goes.

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