Airbrushguy

Thanks.

for being such an intelligent non-nursing guy, i'm surprised you'd ask a bunch of lemmings their opinions. p.s. there are websites dedicated to your question what does asking a pay question have to do with intelligence? pay is a very volatile question and demands an "up to date" raw/untainted observation and response. and all nurses are not lemmings...just 70% in my opinion. 30% are drivers...70% are passengers. but again, its a forum, and forums are all about opinions.. eh? :)

Im presupposing a good "Wage-to-cost-of-living" scenario. Thanks a BUNDLES!

Thanks a bunches......

Very well thought out. I will definately shuffle what you have typed here.. but please consider my views too? Thanks.

upon reflection i indeed ( indirectly ) have "branded" nurses as lemmings and that is indeed not cool, so i appologize....some are ..and some are definately not. but i will stand by my guns in saying that ( especially after reading all of the responses to this post ) that there are many who seem to be mired in a voiceless, reactionary, cauldron of beaurocracy and know that many things are wrong via how it relates to the human condition and the real velocity and temperament of the vocation itself ( nurse to patient ratio and the idiosyncrasys that permeate the environment ).this causes division, fear, neurosis and competition.....thus .. clicks. so what do we do? some certainly dismiss this as the "circle of life" scenario, and some perhaps seek to stand up and do something productive about it. on a daily basis i get to see a woman ( my girlfriend ) waste the precious minutes of her life because she cannot give her patients the quality care they deserve because of the monetary restraints of the system. i guess i want nurses to get to actually know the patient they are working with and to actually be able to gain a sense of redemption to their lives on a daily basis... thus adding fabric and texture to their overall-well-being....thus symbiotic ( best for all concerned ). i guess i want some of google's attitude sprinkled on some of the hardened, linnear, left-brained, overacting personalitys that run and manage the power grid in what we know to be broken and un-yielding. our personal thresholds are sometimes our personal limitations via the frames of references that we are conditioned to..thus social hypnosis and placated theorys based again on a self preserving structure, not a structure that conforms to the relevent disposition of the human condition. i definately understand one simple thing... no money.. no smaller nurse to patient ratios... i "get" that... but the bottom line is that if everybody who was nauteous by this system got the word out in some way shape or form, then there definately could be a toxic shift through government, unions, whatever. to put it simple.. look at the number of nurses compared to the number of managers. eh? think about that. if the thousands and thousands of nurses got on the same page and consolidated a certain body of information, and appropriated that information at low levels of government, and conjoined that information with change that was relevent to the well being of the survival of the patient...who knows what could happen. it all starts with passion and spreading the word. look how micheal moore has actually created an "in the middle" demographic with his latest movie. alot of people on the "right" now like him.. but i wont even open up that can of worms lol. if i had the answer on how to fix this system then i would be in here wasting hours asking all of these esoteric questions right? i am an artist so i do not know how to fix the system, but i will not let this system constantly rust my girlfriends passions to the point of desolation. i will mobilize information to its fullest extent, i will create viral videos on youtube that will change the cultural "shift of perception" on how the rn position has and is being walmartized, diluted, propagated, and placated by the monetary structure that feeds it. i will interview nurses i guess and build from there..build a body of information myself and see what happens. this is the start of a nice little project for me. but the bigger question is what are we all doing about it? the woman who posted the info here ( who is on the council ) is a big hero in my opinion because she is definately a doer and not a watcher. the moderator who jumped in here is definately someone who i know could create authentic synergy in any environment he/she works in because i can tell that these people have a sincere passion for the human condition..and not just the patient...but those who care for the patient. so i leave you with this... real change starts with you. critical mass happens in numbers, not whilst watching wheel of fortune every night after a depleting 12 hour shift. do you look forward to your next shift? if not... why? be honest now.. do you? ( and im not just talking about the opportunistic nurse who works 1-2 shifts a week.. im talking about the full-timers ) eh? :)

Be right back.

from cherry: a, that's not my name. b, the "way it is" is not because of things that we do. i can think of one patient, out of thousands, that walked away from a half a million dollar bill. please, fix that, and get back to me. i can't make them pay it, sorry. and i can't pay it for them. if the hospital isn't getting paid, we can't afford to pay staff. that's simple math. speaking up doesn't change this fact. c, i didn't say they were a problem for me, i said your posts don't make sense in spite of them. you come off as trying to appear more intelligent than your points make you out to be, that is my issue. please read and comprehend before replying translation: blind adherence p.s... rns are wayyy up there in my book. amazing human beings... but there has to be a transformation of knowledge in a primitive,dated, backwards system.

to cherry-breezer: "where i am, we cannot control how administration thinks our assignments should be. speaking up doesn't make one person's assignments harder....they're all hard" this is my point exactly.... there is this commonwealth of "that's just the way it is" that keeps the system mired in a predictable state of benign comprehension. p.s. cherry.... i am not trying to impress anyone with any big words. if these are big words to you then we better re-shuffle the deck and ask why? lol.

If you would re-read the post Katie-bear... I had already told you that I hear her friends ( other nurses ) on the speaker of her cellphone, scared to death to speak up because they will get sent to a hospital that has either #1: high volume/horrible protocol/oversight or #2: get shafted out of overtime for " Standing up for their true reservations. eh? :)

For her question.. yes. :: wink wink::.

ok. katie.. cool... she does seem to be afraid, neurotic, or whatever feeling you want to characterise her "approach avoidance" to her particular chain of command. let me break it down further. the nursing system, coupled with the contrived process of monetary economics is a program. this program is a program that is running, and locks people into a certain frame of reference. anyone whe ever challenges established systems always set themselves up for venomous attacks and i am well aware of this. nurses are in the box of a preexisting indoctrination/ paradigm, and their thought processes can only go so far based upon their own thresholds and fears of status or competition. if anyone wants to talk about "credentialism".... credentialism is an annotation for the priesthood of "those in the know". obviously there is a gradient of relevence to those who are the "absolutists" of any system, but when it comes to the simple analysis of information and how it relates to society and social well-being, then certainly the tables turn and we discover that what we have learned is- that prexisting systems are not actually a science, but an incumbered, unsolicited state of power and control....especially when it comes to symbiotics and the true need of the human condition. the nursing chain of command seems to become a "catch-all" for whatever works at that given time, and product of a broken system based upon monetary restraint via budgets, power and red tape. nursing is oscillating in very unhealthy ways between the scarcity of funding and the lack of awaresness of the repercussions of the unrealistic workloads implemented..... i'll stop there.

Katie.. can you elaborate? Thanks......

i need to correct the first sentence of my last post... is it complaining? or blind sumission to a broken system based upon fight or flight /livlihood and survival?

the whole point is ....is it complaining... or whining? thats the paradox were trying to narrow down. were talking about unhealthy threshholds in the system itself, and how that threshhold relates to the "best for all concerned". i know that nursing will never ( like google ) have gourmet meals and massages, but the awareness on how google "takes care of its own", is something that should be modeled...not eat your own, and walk around disgruntled and neurotic about stepping up for your own individual voice without getting indirectly chastised via your assignments or overtime opportunitys. now sure google has the money to do this, but the principals should apply to all employment systems and i do not think this is utopian...its a starting point on how bad it really is in these hospitals and for nurses to stop walking around when they see the elephant on the couch eh?

JANFRN. .great post.. thanks for your insight. I am really heated about how nurses get jacked-over and the blind submission that is galvanized day after day within so many levels of nursing. I'll try and chisel my demeanor down a smidge.

ok, i'll help you understand. your most recent post clearly illustrated my point...you seem intent on "stirring the pot" yet you yourself are not a nurse. closing the allnurses.com forum to anyone not actively involved in the practice of nursing would automatically exclude posts such as yours. which posts have no positive effect on anything. sorry to bust your bubbly.. but there are different degrees of subjective variance when it comes to "what constitutes appropriate attributes" to the velocity and integrity of a forum. as far as me not being a nurse.. indeed i am not, but do i have to work at mcdonalds to know that their fries will be freshly made if i order them without salt? nope.. indeed i do not. all you have to do is perhaps have a friend who works there to tell you such "secrets". eh? actually to weed out any possibility that i do not know what transpires in the hallways and offices of that hospital is totally narcissistic and ridiculous. i have been given an overdose of that place every single morning on her drive home ( 45 minutes ) for the last 10 years. so to say i have no clue what is going on is just.. well.. again.... "lemming-ish". sorry.. but i know very well what the "deal" is.

That made absolutely no sense. Sorry.. but it didnt.

i really try and be as quaint as i can and i am not trying to verbally impress anyone with rhetoric or psychological re-bop. the point is that nurses seem to not only enable the spiral of disfuntion within the murky corridors of management but they inadvertently enable the system as a whole with their "hush-hush" mentality i.e. fear of getting sent to a floor/assignment where protocal is null and ratios are through the roof. my validity with all of this is not only the echoing of my girlfriends misery in this system, but all of her friends and how they are scared to have a voice in this parasitic/paralizing quagmire.....hence do nothing about anything... because they might not get cherry-picked for overtime or get selected to go to a certain unit that is not busy ( see: skate / easy) . hopefully this makes sense?

I'll check that link out Sayysfaa. . thanks.

hi lori.... indeed she does not only listen to it.. but agrees with all of it. but i dont sweat any opposition regarding people who cannot see the limitations of their own self-indoctrination. there will always be lemmings in any system via restaurants, hospitals, politics etc. but awareness is the key. good fiscal facts with the presupposition of the symbiotic needs of the human condition. of course the " linnear" minds and the "priesthoods of the know" have no sentience of such concepts because of their premature cognitive commitments to a dated, imploding system they are in. we can convince ourselves of many many things based upon our innate needs to survive. theres a barnes and nobles open lori if you want to educate yourself? thanks.

I dont understand what you mean,

in the nursing field, a good nurse does not whine about patient care however we will question if that patient is appropriate for the unit they were sent to. i would question why a patient with a hemoglobin of 5.8 was sent to me at the cardiac unit. every nurse has had a bad day when they had a few difficult cases. it maybe me today but tomorrow it will be somebody else etc!!! im saying that the levels of blind adherence to the workload of nurses is not only inhumane, but it puts them at a "differential disadvantage" within : #1 - the core reason they became a nurse. #2- negates the integrity of the title in general. nursing should be an institution of valor, but has been reduced to "waitresses with cottonballs". the nurse to patient ratio does not enable the proper care, and sets up instant stratification for not only contempt within their own chain of command, but indeed causes everything from divorce, to self-medicating behaviors. in indiana, the system is nothing short of a contrivance...fortified and fed by a convoy of conservative lemmings, me-monkeys and clicks. even the transient rns from other states agree that the system, as a whole is broken. you all may think you have control over the balance of your workday, but to my experience, you have adjusted to unrealistic expectations,administrative and beaurocratic propaganda, and an indoctrination of philosophys that are not healthy for your personal energy level and well being. eh? ask yourself this... are you excited about going into your next shift? or is it better than working in a factory? eh? nurses are locked in a box...and they look up, and they can see the holes in the box, and try to patch the holes....but dont even consider that maybe somethings is wrong with the box itself. maybe the box is invalid to interpersonal humanitary needs via the patient or the worker. this paradigm will not be considered ( unfortunately ) until our monetary system puts the medical industry at an innate and existential disadvantage, thus the system will collapse on itself like a house of cards and real change will happen.

interesting take on a field you have no actual experience in. your girlfriend must feel so very supported. when you are the soundboard to a daily smorgasboard of competitiveness, disgruntledness, back-stabbing, and brown nosing.. you know what your talking about. eh?

The codependent nature of the RN persona seems to lend itself to blind adherence, and a certain degree of submission and overt tolerance that is VERY evident in questioning authority or contrived labor systems that in my opinion are exceptionally ambiguous and primitive. Nurses ( In a SANE world ) would have 70% less patients which would enable them to retain their core purpose in the field which is to nurture and help. I am smelling lemmings left and right it seems?