DebRN06

Exactly what has happened in this thread is what, unfortunatly, drives me crazy about this site. The OP was NOT saying she treats the pts differently, in fact she stated "I will do everything in my power to help them get better or be as comfortable as possible." She was also NOT looking to get bashed. She was asking if anyone else feels this way and possibly for some actual guidance from experienced nurses who may have experienced these same feelings. To the OP, I feel bad for what you have had to experience due to wanting to talk about your feelings. You DO NOT have to "feel sorry" for every patient that you care for. What you have to do is provide the best nursing care you possibly can. The good thing is that you, unlike others that have attacked you, realize and can state your feelings. You do not claim to be the perfect person that others on here apparently, delusionally, think they are. Of course I have the occasion to "judge" patients and/or their family members. Just as I have done outside of work. I am human and am not perfect. Therefore, when I find myself doing this (whether at work or in my personal life) I try to remind myself of the fact that I am not perfect, and I have made bad choices at times in my life. I also remind myself that I do not know their whole history and what they have possibly been through that has led them down a particular path in life.

Update: Unfortuately, I was unable to attend the unit meetings so I do not know exactly what was said by co-workers. Supposedly, per manager, only a few people spoke up against it. Others like it. I had a more productive talk with her about it last week and she sees my point of view. She said when this month is up she is going to change it to shifts (no names) and will prob move it by our med room, which is not so visible. It is sad though to see people actually asking where their stars are... drives me crazy.

Thank you, thank you, thank you for sharing that!! So beautiful and touching!

Parkland Community College in Champaign, Illinois offers these classes online. I know the organic/bio chem class is set up really well. The lab component is done at home. Parkland.edu

I completely agree, it IS public humiliation. I am so irritated by this! It is not just the nurses that have to sign off, it is also the CNA's. I honestly cannot explain why they have suddenly started this, but it is hospital-wide. We were the last unit to implement it. I was actually hopeful my new director had not started to drink the kool-aid (so-to-speak). But, apparently she has and with her defensive tone to my criticism of the board, I am now worried that the change (I hoped) I could believe in is not possible. If she is forced from the top, then just say that. I could (to a degree) respect that as we all need our jobs. But, don't, as a nurse, sit there and defend such out-right disrespect towards your employees and our profession. It just frustrates me beyond belief. The team I work with (for the very most part) is great. We work together very well. I think this board could lead to problems between staff. I can just see one of our harder-working CNA's getting upset about another getting a star and not her because she has been too busy helping and answering call-lights for everyone else's pts. I know it sounds stupid, but if the "lazy" CNA is going to get credit for her work, why keep picking up the slack?? It IS a morale buster. I cannot tell you how many times I thought about looking for another job today. The only reason I have stayed at this job for the amount of time I have is because I love my co-workers. My last job, I worked with lazy, lazy people and I am afraid to risk leaving a job where I like the people I work with! The director told me we would discuss this at next weeks unit meeting. I know many of my co-workers are not happy about it and another did voice her opinion today also. We will see what happens. Thank you for all the replies. This stupid idea of theirs has gotten me really fired up and I just needed reassurance I am not being dramatic. Oh, I also thought maybe we can make a board and give the dr's a star if they spend >2min with a pt!!

Yes, we do have a badge tracker. They print the call-light report at the end of each shift and any call-lights >2 min they make the nurse "sign-off" on. Although they say that this is not going to lead to disciplinary actions (which I do not believe). If it is not, what is the point of keeping track of each nurse. They can track where we are when the call-light is on. I think that needs to also be noted and more importantly, who was in the hall/at the nurses station. If I am in another room, how am I to answer another call-light. And, just because someone is showing up in the hall does not mean they had the time to get to the call-light in I am going to invent a phone tracker that will keep track of how many times the phone rings. It can be another torture device for nurses and another way to discipline us. Hospital management will eat it up and I will be rich!!

It just never ends. For the last year or more, management has been harping about hourly rounds. They have gone as far as to go in to rooms with us and watch us do our hourly rounds, making sure we have hit each key behavior. Also, they will go to each pt daily and ask about our hourly rounds. NOW... they have come up with the idea of call-lights needing to be answered within 2 minutes (it will soon go down to 1 min) and if it is not, at the end of the shift, we have to "sign off" on it. They have also now put up a poster board in the middle of the hall with each nurse's name. We get stars next to our names if none of our call-lights were >2min. It is crap like this that makes me want to leave the bedside. I do not have to be "shamed" to answer my pt's call-lights. I would not mind if it were in the breakroom, locker room, med room, but I have a huge issue with it being in the hallway. Some nurses only work 2 days a week, others 5. If I were a pt or family member and I were to look at that board and my nurse did not have many stars, I think I would assume that generally she/he was not good at answering their pt's call-lights. Also, it is a team effort. There are times we are all "stuck" in a room for a good amount of time. How am I supposed to be both in the hall at all times watching for call-lights and in my pts room doing my job?? Not possible. I also would not have a problem if the poster board was separated in shifts with no names and stars given to each shift for call-lights >2 minutes. I spoke with my director about it and she sounded annoyed with me and said this a positive thing and is supposed to be a fun game. I told her my concerns and why I disagree with it (mostly being where she has displayed it) and I told her not one person I have spoken to is happy about it. She completely did not hear or understand my concerns. I went as far as asking her if she were still on the floor how she would feel, to which I did not get a decent reply. I am curious how others would feel about this. Am I being ridiculous because that this is really annoying me?? Thanks, Deb

I wouldn't say "not for you." I had 2 new-grad orientations. I left my 1st nursing job after 6 months because I could not work nights anymore and there were no day positions. I wasn't too impressed by their new-grad orientation... until I started my 2nd job. The 2nd place's orientation was not good at all. My preceptors graduated the same time i did!! The educator and director met with me once during the 10 week period! At the 1st place preceptors/orientees were given 1 less pt and a "lighter load" to begin with so the preceptor actually has time to explain, teach, etc. At the 2nd place their thinking is "there is 2 of them... give them the most difficult pts." The 1st place the educator would come to the unit weekly and completely go over (at least) one of your pts with you (assessment, labs, orders, meds, etc) and explain everything... why was this med ordered, this lab drawn, this test done, etc! That was great!! Absolutely the best part of their orientation. At my 1st job preceptors needed to take a class to learn how to precept at the 2nd they will let any "warm body" with any attitude or work ethic. Just sad! Ask questions before you take another job about their orientation. Get a copy of their orientation schedule. Unfortunately, most places do not have good new-grad orientations. Find the best one in your area... and try to get in there. jjjoy is right... you have def. learned a lot already. Good luck!

No, trust me, it didn't. We have gone through it with her time & time again. She has called meetings to specifically ask our opinions on what is wrong & what/how things need to be changed. We have collectively and individually told her, but she does not hear us. In fact, she argues with us, acts as though we imagine our ratios, says we don't have teamwork (which is not true), says we have no "time-management skills" (I think that one is my favorite)etc, etc, etc. During this meeting she said to us, very arrogantly, "Well, what do you want? 2 pts? Because that's not gonna happen." We didn't say anything about wanting 2 pts. We were pointing out the techs more often than not have 12/13pts when they are only supposed to have 8/9! Talking to her is like talking to a brick wall.

our mgr came on the unit and called a "brief meeting" to, as usual, harp on us about hourly rounding, our scores, complaints, etc. after listening to her tell us how horrible we are and hearing her speak to us patronizingly, i finally told her that she needs to work on the unit for a day so she can understand where we are coming from & what we go through(not the first time i have made that suggestion). she, of course, says that she has already been there/done that (which i might add was >20yrs ago and on a different type of unit) then she says, "you better get used to it, nursing is only going to get worse." :angryfire:angryfire:angryfire i couldn't help it... i said, "with nurse managers that don't stick up for us and our profession... yes it is!" oops, i said it outloud, and in front of everyone (but am glad i did)...

No, unfortunately I would not recommend nursing. It makes me sad that I cannot, in good conscience, recommend this profession that I truly believed I would love. Daily I become more disappointed. There are so many things that could be (and I hope will be) done to change my mind. It seems so long ago (only 3 yrs!!) that I honestly thought that I would be able to think this way and it would get me through the stressful times, but it doesn't. And now, I know I was very naive to believe that I would/could. If anything, I go home and think, "I wish i would have had time to.... I wish I could have....That pt really needed....Did I remember to....." Yes, there are things that nursing has already given me that I will treasure forever. For example, a letter from a family for making their sister's last day a "comfortable" and "dignified" one. I am so honored and humbled to have been a part of her last day and to have helped her family feel the way they do about that difficult day. I could never get that kind of feeling from any other profession. But, I also know I "got lucky" that day because I was not as busy or pulled in every direction as normal and I had an awesome tech (that also received a letter) right by my side!! The other day I was IN 1 of my pt's room for seven of my 12 hrs!!! I knew he was going to take up my time and, starting 1st thing in the morning I kept track of how long I was in there. This is a new thing I started doing when I have a difficult pt (physicaly or mentally) just out of my own curiosity, and to an extent to have an answer to mgmt when they ask why a stupid hourly rounding sheet may not have been signed at a particular time (because that IS of utmost importance) How well taken care of were my other 4 pts??? They needed more than they got that day and there is nothing I could have done about it. The other nurses were busy, too. The tech had 13 pts. The charge RN had pts. And thank god after discharging a couple, towards the end of the day, I didn't get an admit.... that would have sent me right over the edge!! I stayed 2 hours late to help the oncomng RN and it took both of us to get "caught up" with this 1 pt. If I went to my mgr she would say I need to work on my "time managemt" which is NOT the case. This pt had that much going on. They (mgmt) just do not care. Acuity, safety... I can go on and on... it just doen't matter. It is all about the :twocents: and that DRIVES ME CRAZY!!! And then, when I bring up these issues, I get an answer of, "what do you want 2 pts... because that IS NOT going to happen." :angryfire:angryfire NO!!!!! I want to go to work, feel safe, feel my pts are safe and know that I am being given the opportunity to do my job and do it well!!! Got a little long-winded and off track... sorry.

i did not take offense to your post (in case you thought i did). it just frustrates/confuses me that i have seen others petitioned with far less mental health issues than this man and they have stayed on our unit for days until a bed opened. again, i wasn't there, but 5 total code strongs and documented threats to numerous people?? if something were to happen (to pt or another) would not the hospital and md be liable? i have very limited experience with psych... only which i see on a tele unit. i actually hope to never have that much experience with psych as it is not my forte. so, i am not used to this kind of thing. i was curious if this is the norm so to speak. regardless, it is sad... for many. i cant tell you how bad i felt for this man, living in the hell of his mind, and for the parents/family that "lost" him to his illness.

don't think i would have had to kidnap or false-imprison...i guess i would have questioned the md... maybe detail the need for the following to be filled out: petition for involuntary/judicial admission **a person with mental illness and who because of his or her illness is reasonably expected to engage in dangerous conduct which may include threatening behavior or conduct that places that person or another individual in reasonable expectation of being harmed; **a person with mental illness and who because of his or her illness is unable to provide for his or her basic physical needs so as to guard a person with mental illness who, because of the nature of his or her illness, is unable to understand his or her need for treatment and who, if not treated, is reasonably expected to suffer or continue to suffer mental deterioration or emotional deterioration, or both, to the point that the person is reasonably expected to engage in dangerous conduct; **in need of immediate hospitalization for the prevention of such harm. i base the foregoing assertion on the following (provide a detailed statement including a description of the signs and symptoms of a mental illness and of any, acts, threats, or other behavior or pattern of behavior supporting the assertionand the time and place of their occurrence. additional page(s) may be attached as necessary) i do not believe every "crazy" person needs to be locked up. not what i am saying. but this guy is a danger to himself and others.... is this not why the involuntary petition exists? to protect people (whether from themselves or to others) and to (hopefully) help the person? i agree, more community resources need to be available.

I was off duty. But, was given the low-down on what happened... 4 code strongs called on unit, pt swingin at staff, code strong called in lobby. That all happened the day he was d/c'd. He was obviously not properly medicated or lucid. He needed to be transfered to a mental health facility to get the help he needs, get him medicated and to protect himself (and others) from his aggression and delusions. I am sorry, I would not want to run into this man on the streets. I would not want him wandering the streets in my neighborhood (or anyone else's for that matter) in the state he was d/c'd in. As far as the etoh comparison, I get it, but what happened with this particular man is the same as d/c'ing an etoh pt in the midst of detox & withdrawal.

State of Denial where the powers that be live, where the supposed nursing shortage has been made up to deny the real issues and ensure problems are not addressed... (i.e. keeping nurses from leaving d/t working conditions in hospitals or keeping nurses in the profession altogether, etc). Sorry, not the answer you were looking for.... couldn't help myself. :wink2:

had a homeless schitzophrenic pt on our unit and after a few days off found out he was d/c'd to a homeless shelter. i cannot understand how this man was d/c'd back on to the streets. he was flat-out scary. completely delusional and aggressive. he was in 4-point restaints the whole time he was there, up until they gave him some disposable scrubs and sent him on his way. there were even four code strongs called on this guy that day and he was swingin at staff!! there was another called in the lobby when he was being brought to his cab. now, i was not there when he was d/c'd or for a few days prior. but, i cannot wrap my head around how/why he was not transfered to a mental health facility. there is no way i could have allowed that had i been there that day. this man is an absolute danger to society. he had threatened to kill me and other co-workers (documented) and poor marykate and ashley have no idea the grave danger they are in when this man (along with tom cruise) find them. (sry...not funny...kinda). he stated he had done some horrible things to his parents and was "not done with them" (also documented). the only answer i got from the nurse that d/c'd him was that psych ok'd him for d/c. scary. anyone ever experience something like this? i am just shocked.

Looking at your GPA from 13 yrs ago? Things change. You can't compare from then to now. I always thought I was bad at math and science and when I (finally) started back at college after a 8yr hiatus i found out i was actually much more interested in both than I had been when I was younger. What used to confuse the heck outta me came a lot easier than when I was younger and now made sense or what I found so boring was now interesting. Don't be scared of classes that you haven't had any experience with ever or in a long time. Something you are worried may be too difficult for you may end up being much easier and more interesting than what you are anticipating. Good luck. :wink2:

Yup... that is exactly what we are to use. Just drives me crazy. Where is a facility that actually have mgmt/ceo that come up with any improvement on their own, or that see the root cause of real issues???? What do they pay for this, umm....stuff, anyway?? I'm sure I could come up with more productive ways to spend it. :anpom: I feel like they want cheerleaders :anpom:instead of :nurse: !!

I'm fine with the hourly rounding thing. Actually think it is a good idea and honestly has saved me from annoyance a few times from pts that had said I hadn't been in the room. All my manager had to do was look at the rounding sheet and see my initials and times I had been in the room. What really is bugging me is how far the hospital has taken this. Every nurse in the hospital has been tested, with actual pts and management watching us. We have a script we have to follow and and have to hit every point... such as when introducing ourselves we have to "build ourselves up" ..."I have been a nurse for __ yrs, I am a certified tele nurse", etc and build up our co-workers or other departments... "Jane is your PCT today...she is excellent!" We also have to ask EVERY time if they need to use the washroom. No exceptions. Even if the pt is independent. The list goes on. Mgmt is actually asking the pts if we are going through the whole stupid script everytime we go in the room, and we are getting written up if the pt says no. It takes about 5 min to go through it properly and that is if the pt doesn't ask for anything. I really didn't need this to ensure I see my pts... I am sick of feeling like I am being baby-sat or that they don't trust us to do our freakin job. There are so many other things that mgmt need to spend their time on that could actually make some difference to their staff and pts. An Rn or PCT was already in each room hourly (at very least) without this craziness. They think it is going to cut down on call-lights, but fail to realize that most call-lights are from pts that are overly needy, confused or the few that are just plain jerks and like to make us run around. Mgmt also thinks this will raise our scores... and have gone overboard with this instead of fixing the actual problems. I am sorry this is so long. I am just so annoyed with the stupidity of mgmt in the hospitals.

Had to reply to this one. Didn't sound half bad??? Consider yourself blessed???? Wow!! They have you right where they want you!! Here's what bothers me when I read these kind of replies... Bad conditions are bad conditions. Period. So what if your unit is a hair worse. Both are still bad. I would not want to be a pt (or nurse) on either of these unsafe units. The floor I work on, I feel is unsafe and our ratios are "better." But, I was still stuck at work 3 hrs late last night, almost started crying numerous times d/t complete frustration, and felt so anxious most the day. If I had 1 more pt it would have driven me over the edge. As far as the importation of foreign nurses contributing to the lack of bargaining power of the American nurse, and keeping working conditions sub par...I do think that is a very small factor. There are much larger contributors, and unfortunately the average American nurse is to blame as well. We can't even come together on the floor I work on and stand up, advocate for ourselves (and pts) and tell management "We will not tolerate this anymore." If we can't do that on 1 unit, how do changes even get rolling... to the rest of the hospital, city, region, country?? Also, the "consumer" is to blame as well. The public needs to be educated and needs to stand up for their health & safety. But the larger contributors (in my opinion) are... greed, management, politics/government, insurance companies, etc, etc. Just my

You need to find another job and RUN, not walk, outta there!! Even if things calm down, you are always going to have to watch your back. Sounds like your co-worker is the type of person that doesn't care if she even throws herself under the bus as long she as gets revenge, although unwarrented. Since you can't sleep anyway...look for a new job!! I'm sorry your dealing with "high school" drama. Good luck.

I thanked her for the apology and told her it meant a lot to me. We were actually discussing what happened for about 5-10 minutes.

Perhaps it is not disinterest in learning, but rather being focused on doing the job they there to do and a desire to do that well. I know there are plenty of times when I would like to "pick the docs brain" or find out what's going on with a co-worker's "interesting" pt, but just do not have the time because I need to remain focused on my own duties/pts... even though I might be missing out on a learning experience. I have also had the opposite experience with a tech that was "too interested" (for lack of better phrase). She was always asking a lot of questions and talking to every nurse about their pts...but not getting her work done in a timely manner. Perhaps they are also not at a place in their life to go back to school. I would have liked to have gone back long before I did, but could not. You have been caring towards them...but I would leave it at that for now. If they need/want any advice from you, I am sure they know they can count on you. As frustrating as it is for you to see them not working towards their dreams/goals, it is not your place to push the issue.

In March I posted about being yelled at by an MD. Not only once...but she came back to the unit to yell at me again and called a couple hours later to continue her rant. https://allnurses.com/forums/f8/upset-about-being-yelled-md-long-288246.html#post2710934 Well, much to my surprise, she apologized to me today. Four months later...but, better late than never. She said I got the brunt of something I should not have. She said she has felt bad since because in retrospect she knows everything I did was right and that I was ensuring our patient's safety. She admitted her wrong and said she should have never spoken to me like that. To say the least, my co-workers and I were shocked!! The charge RN today was the same as that day and I had to nearly pick her chin up off the ground!! I am content with her apology. I actually have a new-found respect for her... takes a big person to accept fault and apologize, especially months later when everything has been "forgotten" I guess I have to stop chanting "Dr.____ is mean!" every time I see her (her name rhymes with mean).:chuckle

I tend to say something along that line when it is someone that will not stop asking after I have already explained. What kills me are the family members that will call about a pt that is A&Ox3. And, these questions annoy the heck out of me... "Did he eat his breakfast?" "Did he sleep ok last night?" And, the ones that call and you talk to them and at the end they say they will be there in an hour...grrr...why call then??? When I get multiple calls for same pt, I always tell the family to pick 1 family member to call for updates and they can update rest of family. I also explain to family that between the hours from 6:30am/pm and 9am/pm are not the best times to call as that is when Rns are finishing/starting up their shift, in report, etc. We do not have a password/code for family at our facility. It drives me crazy. I have asked multiple times to multiple people if this can be initiated. They all say that it is a good idea, but then is never done.