prairienp

Don't we all practice healthcare? Isn't the desired outcome improved health?

Why the lol with USUHS? I didnt graduate from there but have heard good things about program.

Juan,yes thank you for adding clarity , BSN to DNP/FNP . My interest is in which of these programs do not have a specific nursing theories course, I understand the need of a theory and conceptual framework. Which programs are not requiring a nursing theory course.

Exactly what information I am looking for, thanks. Although the topic is DNP the idea is applicable to graduate nursing education for NPs, what theory or theories are needed for NP education at the graduate level?

agree, my intention for the 4th response on the poll was both. I wil try and change thanks

Do/Didyou have a Nursing theory course for your BSN to DNP/FNP program. I am seeking facts, not complaints. Which BSN to DNP/FNP programs do not require a "Nursing" Theory course? If you had a general required theory course that included some nursing that is important to know. I believe the time has arrived where the BSN to DNP/FNP is not required to have a nursing theory course, but a conceptual framework course that includes all types of frameworks that allow students to move forward on their evidenced based practice projects.

Goingfor your DNP will help if you select a program that will allow you tospecialize in an area. For example if derm is where you want to work, if youwere to focus on dermatology during your DNP completion program you would bemore marketable. Having an additional 500 hours of focus in Derm will help you stand out over other applicants without the dermatology experience.

I think there is also confusion when people "assume" all programs use practice hours to meet the 1000 hours. Many programs have 1000 plus clinical hours with another 2-3 hundred practice hours. The intent of the DNP was to have 1000 clinical hours a "clinical doctorate" I think you are discussing a MSN/FNP to a DNP versus a BSN to a DNP/FNP. In that case of a MSN/FNP to a DNP they have been in practice for several years, do they need clinical hours, I dont think so. They need practice hours

The onlyway to make this argument is to compare students who have a degree (BS or MS)in another field who are in a BSN program. My hypothesis would be the studentswith a degree in another field in a BSN program would outperform the studentsin the AD program. My understanding is that DNP fnp programs require 1000 hours of clinical, a MS fnp program requires 500 Adding a residency wouldbe great, who pays? If the same residency as MDs were available we would havevalid option supported by our tax dollars

As astaff nurse 30 years ago I also used the most current information. Additionaleducation (biostats and EBP) allowed me to understand the difference between avalid EBP study and those that were not. There are a plethora of studies supporting the BSN with improved incomes(magnet hospitals). The DNP is relatively new and the studies will be coming. Isuspect as with most other professional, when you increase the level ofeducation you get a better product. I do agree garbage in will often result ingarbage out as in any educational pursuit. I do not agree that when you take acapable motivated nurse that the educational level makes no difference, the greaterthe exposure the greater the potential.

I am notaware of "one" DNP program for nurse educators. Can you pleaseidentify one as I have several colleagues who would be interested. They may not pay you more for the DNP , but they may not reimburse you unless you have a DNP. Reflect back to 1992 when the MS became the standard that was used for reimbursement by first the Feds and followed by private insurers.

Thefurther we dig, the deeper the hole! The FNP director is adjunct with a fulltime position in Louisiana as the director of a NP program. The DNP director isadjunct. Thus, the faculty "list" is impressive but that is all, thedirectors of the NP and DNP are adjunct faculty with full time positions elsewhere.Which faculty actually coordinates the program? Which faculty are invested in theNP curriculum/students? Juan, most program frown on additional faculty positions outside their own university, especially when a conflict of interest. I would think having two additional adjunct positions, one of which is a director of a FNP program at another university is a problem. Doing the same job for another university is often a conflict of interest, being a NP program director for two different programs with different curriculums, big problems.

Markyour previous comment "I cantell you that one of the professors I spoke with has her DNP from the LouisianaState University, She is a tenured professor at Tulane University, an adjunctprofessor at Loyola of New Orleans, and an adjunct professor and WaldenUniversity. Or was this a rhetorical question that you were try to stump me on,or make me appear foolish? I didn't think to ask any of them what they feltlike the curriculum strong points were. My question to all was, "in yourexperience, how do you feel that Walden University's curriculum compares toother schools". The for mentioned professor told me that if she didn'tthink that the curriculum was up to par she would not at all, be associatedwith the university." Now you say she is not a NP or does she teach any specialty courses and yetshe feels that Walden's curriculum compares to other schools. In addition,you suggest Walden is the only option you have as you are rural. You also say "I don't have the option to go to a"better" university". I strongly disagree. there arebetter online programs, more established and with quality faculty. Someprograms require a week on campus per semester, others have differentexpectations. The point is that as there are "weak" online programas well as weak brick and motor. I also agree with the garbage in garbage out philosophy.I do not agree with your statement "I also contend that the quality of nurse, or nurse practitioner is not aproduct of the school they attend, but more so of the drive and desire tosucceed based on their own principals and internal fortitude "The same philosophy exists for schools, inmy 25 years' experience, the best prepared NPs have the drive, desire, intelligencealong with attending an institution that will hone those skills with acurriculum that challenges and prepares them to be a healthcare provider.

I tried to check out the salary website, the link does not work. I found the website and used nursing to refine search, did not find the same results. The work load of the prof you refer to with a DNP appears heavy? A tenured prof at Tulane (unusual for a DNP education), and adjunct at two additional universities ( I am thinking as an adjunct she is teaching at least one course at each?)

Non profit schools with department chairs making millions of dollars? My only question is where!

Keep the DNP as base edcuation for NP, explore paid residencies to allow increased clinical expertise (like are MD friends)

jreed, what I am saying is that in a np program with two Walden ms graduates along with other ms in nursing prepared and bsn prepared students taking the same NP courses that the Walden students did NOT do as well. I did not say they were poor or that Walden was poor. I did say the other students were better able to handle the rigor of the NP program. I am well aware that a MS in ed in not used to prepare for a NP program. But as you know a MS in nursing ed includes graduate courses which should prepare a student for the rigor of a np program.

I should have been more clear, when comparing the education for the MS in nursing (Walden vs other MS ed) the Walden grad did not match up well. I can't speak to the current FNP program at Walden

I have worked with two Walden graduates of their MS nursing program who continued on into a FNP program at a different institution. The education received at Walde ndid NOT provide them with the same level of skills as their peers when taking same courses in the FNP program. The common theme was the level of rigor associated with the FNP program being significantly higher than Walden, causing an inability to keep up with peers.

The most important reason is missing. If the DNP becomes a requirement for reimbursement.Recall why the MSN became the standard level of education for the NP. In addition, I have listened to a ANCC representative suggest the DNP may be required. The DNP will never happen supporters hear what they want to hear.Follow the DNP discussion since 2004, I have never seen nursing move so quickly to embrace a degree. Compare to any other nursing degree, the level of maturation for the DNP has no peers.

A common response from many although I have not seen a reference to support. Have you looked at the number of NP faculty positions? The number of open positions increases every year. I have talked with NP faculty, most are not there teaching secondary to the big $$$. I do know that most faculty make less teaching as compared to practicing full time. there may be some programs, both MS and DNP that are money makers? Thinking more likely those are the private and online programs, although I have not seen the evidence. The cost is usually significantly higher as compared to public universities

Have you reviewed the number of schools that have transitioned from a MS to a DNP in the past 3 years? If the market is not demanding the DNP why have the number of schools gone from 4 DNP programs in 2004 to nearly 200 in 2013? Why are there another 30-40 programs in the process of transitioning from MS to DNP.

i agree, although "never" is too strong. i have used i am "uncomfortable", especially with narcotics, especially patients i know well. i would have responded to the pa pt almost exactly as you did. i may have asked her to please update me on the treatment protocol as you want to be able to help other patients in your practice with the same condition. i have learned from patients about new treatment options, but i want to verify with ebp before i implement with my other patients. by asking for validation you are acknowledging her preferred treatment option, as a healthcare provider she should be able to provide you with valid ebp.

RN experience provides "experience" which is important. I disagree that stethoscope skills tend to be taught in little time. the more experience you have with a stethoscope the more you have listened which means you know more. Everything from murmurs and splits to gallops on assessment improve with experience. In fact I can't think of a RN skill that didn't benefit me as a NP. history taking, physical assessment, drug administration, resp care, nutritional assessment, social assessment, communication skills, management skills.

I am wondering how a third year medical student would do on the NP certification exam? The AANP and ACCN measure basic np competencies. I am thinking the pass rate for medical students would be around 50%. What would that prove? About the same thing as NPs being 50% in the third year medical exam.