Problems with Rn's in clinicals

caroladybelle, BSN, RN · Apr 6, 2005

Actually, couldn't s/he retake some classes or transfer credits to another institution? Once again, the almighty "perfect nurse" rears its attitude.

Transferring IS another avenue. And it has nothing to do with almighty nurse attitude.

Success in life is not measured by always succeeding but by how you handle failure. The poster asks what she is to do...and the answer is...to go on. One can sit and fuss over what one has lost, which does absolutely no good. Or one can assess what went wrong, analyze it and find ways to improve, which will do you good.

Some people are not destined to be nurses at this point in their life. It is much more important to be a "successful" person, not necessarily a nurse.

TStewartfan · Apr 6, 2005

I am a first semester nursing student, I have never had any problems with the RN's, LPN's, CNA, or PCT's, all of them have been very helpful and are grateful for us to be there. They will search us out if a new skill has to be done such as a Foley or wound care and allow us to do it. Our adjunct instructor has been at our hospital for 17 years and knows everybody so she shuttles us around the hospital having us do procedures on other patients in other units without a problem.

The RN's I have encountered are overworked but none have been mean to us or hateful. The ones I have to say who were mean and hateful and demanding are the unit secretaries. They bark at the RN's, LPN's and the CNA's like they were trash. That I don't understand but they are sweet as molasses to the doctors that come on the unit.

My problem is with students who don't want to do any work, who stand around in the hallway acting as if they were bored. I was so busy Tuesday in clinicals that by the time I looked at my watch it was 1:50 and we are set to go off the unit at 2 pm. If you want to be a nurse, be dedicated and search things to do, I did that two weeks ago when I had a patient who could care for herself and technically was addicted to her pain pump and could care less what care I provided for her. Since she was that way, I found other things to do and assisted the other staff when they needed help. I believe you have to be willing to be up there, sometimes, certain people's demeanor can either hinder or help them. In my case, my demeanor has helped me see things that other students have not been allowed to do because I am always willing to pitch in and assist others. We have been taught that the patients come first and you have to do what you can to make the patient comfortable in an environment that they don't particulary want to be in.

Some nursing students I have seen do not show respect to anyone, that's sad. My instructors tell us that they know who is dedicated and who isn't and who tries and who doesn't, it will show at the end of the semester when you find out who stays and who goes on to the next section.

Just my two cents, and by the way, I am not a spring chicken, I am 39, have two kids and quit my job in January to go to school so I am dedicated.

Jodi Levins

ICWonderland · Apr 7, 2005

Could you be more specific?
I personally have been rather annoyed at the latest crop of nursing students.
They want a separate report, instead of waiting to get report with their preceptor. This is completely out of line, not to mention time-
I just submitted a big vent re: clincals. This morning the third shift RN was very annoyed w. us. We get to the hospital at 6:45am- we have to wait for assignments from out teacher, then we have to hunt down the RNs who crawls off to little corners.
I have seen how annoyed those RNs are. In case you think we don't see it- HEY! WE GET IT!
Speaking from someone who's there, there is not one thing we can do about it.
I suppose perhaps someone could dock our pay! (ha.)
I don't really know what hospitals get out of having students in there and no idea what RNs would get out of it- but apparently this is the way it works.
I'm sure they must have had a much better system when you were going to school.
As for the questions- I HATE asking questiosn of most RNs because either (1) they treat you like you're a moron for not knowing or (2) they act like you (the student) are in someway trying to make them look bad.
How bout this? We were taught one thing in class and either we think we got it wrong or want to know why you're doing it differently? (like maybe we think you might have something to teach us?)
This is beginning to appear to be such a hateful/catty proffesion. I am really wondering what in the h*ll I was thinking.

ICWonderland · Apr 7, 2005

Why do you need a BP machine?
I have been a nurse for 11 years, and have generally done manual BPs. They are more accurate, and less of an infection risk.

Not all hospitals have cuffs in the rooms and certainly they don't all have working cuffs.

I've brought my own in- but the same issue re: looking for pulse ox machines/thermometers/glucose machines, etc.

I don't think anyone realizes how hard it is just to go in to a new place and FIND the stuff you need, while also learning a new career and also dealing with CNAs and RNs who resent your presence and at the same time abandon their patients to you to go off and HIDE.

and I swear they do- except for those who comfortably loll in chairs glaring at & whispering about you

ICWonderland · Apr 7, 2005

but you know what?

That's a great answer. The kind of great solutions you get from RNs when you have the audacity enough to speak up about a problem.

Why don't you just do abc- ? no problem. Except the problem is trying to work/learn from people who don't want you there and will expend energy showing you that, while making what you're trying to do really hard

USA987, MSN, RN, NP · Apr 7, 2005

For the students experiencing the game of "hidden BP equipment" check the bathrooms in unoccupied rooms, conference rooms perhaps at the end of the halls, and mostly those hidden behind the curtains at the pt's bedside.

Are the nurses your working with really that manipulative that they actually take the time out of their hectic day to purposely hide BP equipment?? Heck, I've worked at my facility for two years and I can never find a BP cuff when I need one!!! :banghead:

anney1981 · Apr 7, 2005

This is one of the first times that I have felt innervated enough to post. What school did you go to? Oh, yeah, you were born a nurse...No. You weren't. Not all nursing students ask for a separate report from everyone else and some of us don't get to come in when report is occurring at 0700 or 1900. We come on the floor at 1600. The nurses don't tape. They give an oral report. You should be appreciative of nursing students. We give people a break. When we have patients, we have two patients that we do all of the work for. Not the RN's that would have originally had them. Therefore, taking the work off of them. Our instructor is there to teach us. If nurses on the floor are kind they teach as well. We are not there to be in the way. We are there to learn so that we can help with the nursing shortage. Please remember that we all started out as nursing students. If you are burnt out, go somewhere else. Don't make everyone else around you miserable as well....

Could you be more specific?
I personally have been rather annoyed at the latest crop of nursing students.
They want a separate report, instead of waiting to get report with their preceptor. This is completely out of line, not to mention time-consuming - time I do not have.
Sorry, I do not have time to give two separate reports in the A.M. after a 12-hour shift on a busy Med/Surg unit. Especially when it's 6:45, and I'm running around, trying to get ready to give report anyway! :angryfire
Plus, some of them have an "attitude" ~ pointing things out to me. Well, hey, if I had the luxury of being a student again and not having five other ACUTE patients, maybe I could sit around and theorize about why Patient A. acted this way...blah, blah...but thanks for pointing it out to me!

BETSRN · Apr 7, 2005

Could you be more specific?
I personally have been rather annoyed at the latest crop of nursing students.
They want a separate report, instead of waiting to get report with their preceptor. This is completely out of line, not to mention time-
I just submitted a big vent re: clincals. This morning the third shift RN was very annoyed w. us. We get to the hospital at 6:45am- we have to wait for assignments from out teacher, then we have to hunt down the RNs who crawls off to little corners.
I have seen how annoyed those RNs are. In case you think we don't see it- HEY! WE GET IT!
Speaking from someone who's there, there is not one thing we can do about it.
I suppose perhaps someone could dock our pay! (ha.)
I don't really know what hospitals get out of having students in there and no idea what RNs would get out of it- but apparently this is the way it works.
I'm sure they must have had a much better system when you were going to school.
As for the questions- I HATE asking questiosn of most RNs because either (1) they treat you like you're a moron for not knowing or (2) they act like you (the student) are in someway trying to make them look bad.
How bout this? We were taught one thing in class and either we think we got it wrong or want to know why you're doing it differently? (like maybe we think you might have something to teach us?)
This is beginning to appear to be such a hateful/catty proffesion. I am really wondering what in the h*ll I was thinking.
If you have this attitude already, get out now. Nursing doesn't need people with your attitude.

ICWonderland · Apr 7, 2005

Funny that i read this today, considering in 8 1/2 hours i had NINE students follow me around (not at the same time). I sounded like a broken record player after awhile.
Went to the coordinator before i changed clothes and said "Please do not put any more students with me for the rest of the week. Saying the same thing to nine different people is enough for one week".

I really respect you for this. It has got to be hard and exhausting (I'm a nursing student). Instead of hiding or getting mad, you did the intelligent, mature, responsible thing.

You asked for a break!

I think nurses who work w. students should get lighter loads, a pay bonus and the right to ask for "time off" from students.

I think communication and honesty from all sides could help students/RN/LPNs- the schools AND the hospitals (current staff doesn't get burnt out and potential staff- someday new grads will come away with a positive feeling about the institution.

ICWonderland · Apr 7, 2005

If you have this attitude already, get out now. Nursing doesn't need people with your attitude.
Today, besides everything else a fellow student and I moved a lady with a dislocated arm. She had, had a bowel movement. This was the fellow students patient- that girl was very contientious, read the chart - she was trying so, so hard to do everything right.
The way she found out about the dislocated arm- besides noting that pt's arm looked "funny" was the patient's family told her. This pt. had a lot of bowel movements, her actual RN wouldn't go near the room.
The nurse in charge of this patient was also in charge of another patient who was extremely "out of it". She would open her eyes and twitch and roll into a ball.
She had "choking hazard" all over all of her paper work. This RN sent us in to feed her. Besides having advanced, ADVANCED alzeheimers- the patient had no teeth.
This other student and I stood in that room- we mashed and mashed the food- we looked at each other. The student nurse went back for more directions from her RN- the RN sent her BACK IN to FEED this woman!
Eventually the patient's family showed up- the RN got a little more interested then.
It was a bad, bad day.
It was a scary as H*LL day. I couldn't believe it. And this is a decent hospital, too.
I didn't have the experience NOR the authority to do anything about it (and yet we had the responsibility).
I don't think that's a good thing. I think knowing that is bad, is a start towards the right attitude.
But I was overly harsh in that last post.
I really had no idea how to handle any of it and it just kept getting worse and worse.

ICWonderland · Apr 7, 2005

Today, besides everything else a fellow student and I moved a lady with a dislocated arm. She had, had a bowel movement. This was the fellow students patient- that girl was very contientious, read the chart - she was trying so, so hard to do everything right.
The way she found out about the dislocated arm- besides noting that pt's arm looked "funny" was the patient's family told her. This pt. had a lot of bowel movements, her actual RN wouldn't go near the room.
The nurse in charge of this patient was also in charge of another patient who was extremely "out of it". She would open her eyes and twitch and roll into a ball.
She had "choking hazard" all over all of her paper work. This RN sent us in to feed her. Besides having advanced, ADVANCED alzeheimers- the patient had no teeth.
This other student and I stood in that room- we mashed and mashed the food- we looked at each other. The student nurse went back for more directions from her RN- the RN sent her BACK IN to FEED this woman!
Eventually the patient's family showed up- the RN got a little more interested then.
It was a bad, bad day.
It was a scary as H*LL day. I couldn't believe it. And this is a decent hospital, too.
I didn't have the experience NOR the authority to do anything about it (and yet we had the responsibility).
I don't think that's a good thing. I think knowing that is bad, is a start towards the right attitude.
But I was overly harsh in that last post.
I really had no idea how to handle any of it and it just kept getting worse and worse.
p.s.- what I meant to add was we were moving the dislocated shoulder lady all over the place before realizing she had the dislocated shoulder (it wasn't mentioned in report).
also the alzeheimers pt. had been ordered a "soft mechanical diet"- the other student suggested at least a thick liquid diet? (although that would have been impossible too)- her nurse waved off those suggestions- also told the other student nurse to go ahead and give po meds. We could barely get this woman out of a tight fetal position.
it WAS NUTS

ICWonderland · Apr 7, 2005

:rotfl: Does any one else have problems with Rn's in the hospitals when attending clinicals? I guess they forget they were students once, or they think they were born a nurse. I do not understand this type of treatment. We are all in this profession to help people, and it seems like they would welcome the help. Our instruction has been a RN for 27 years and is a GREAT!! instructor. And she can not understand this either. We have all approached the nurses with great respect, and this does not work at all.
HELP :uhoh21:

Hey Bonnie,

I posted something similar to your problem earlier. I've spent the evening reading all these responses and trying to come up with solutions (I've been so revved up I could probably write a page response to everyone of them).

You know what? I feel a whole lot better than I did earlier today.

Some thoughts though:

The students I've worked with (wannabe) nurses this past year are some of the most fantastic human beings I've ever met.

I love, love, love the fact that this proffesion attracts such bright, funny, authentic people (well, women specifically, but some great men, too). I'm in an ADN program that took me a year to get into (takes everyone that long- it's quite a long procedure), everyone in this program had to take a three month CNA course before starting- nobody in my program is afraid of work or poop. We all had to survive A&P (and good NIGHT if that wasn't the hardest thing I've ever experienced).

My instructors are creative, amazing people. And there are lots of working nurses out there just as great.

As a nursing student I've gotten to do things I wouldn't have gotten to do (or at least it would have been harder). I got this lady w. COPD who'd started smoking again + went on a painting rampage, the week after she lost both her father and husband- - - I got to listen to her story and hook her up with Grief Counseling. (because I was only assigned to two patients plus one of my school projects involved "therapeutic communication).

You know, that was a gift and made me feel so certain this was the prof. for me.

I'm realizing now- thinking about what's going on w. my clinical situation; ego is a big part of it for everyone concerned (I don't want to be a whiner, I don't want to "tell" on anyone. I don't want to feel stupid or blown off, etc. Nurses/CNAs have their own ego issues. "students are disrespectful", "They want to make me look dumb" "they're going to get together and talk about us later").

AND then- there's the patient safety stuff. I'm realizing I have let my frustration and ego get in the way of speaking up for people who ARE my responsibility. They're my responsibility just like anyone in trouble would be, as one human being to another.

No doubt "real-life" nursing is far different from the "idealized" version. I know I don't have a handle on setting priorities, etc.

I will tell one more story. Last Fall in clinical I had a patient who stroked as she sat on a gurney in the hallway. The floor was crazy. My instructor was dealing w. another emergency and this pt.s nurse (who was very kind, attentive, etc) was running like a maniac. This pt. had come from ICU- report was skimpy. I had no idea the pt. had stroked because I'd never met her before. I knew she looked "strokey"- but I thought that had happened earlier. Something in the pt.'s eyes seemed "beseaching" (I know, sounds dramatic).

So everyone was crazy, but I found I kept bugging them. Lots of dumb questions, trying to get a handle on what I was seeing. I'd ask a question, get a quick reply- go back to the patient, reassess- go find the nurse w. more info (which she accepted graciously- but couldn't really deal w.).

Anyhow- when the patient's family showed up, they were really upset (apparantly mom had been sitting up drinking a coke yesturday afternoon in ICU). I finally had some info to compare what I was seeing. I went back (yet again- nervous about bugging RNs). They came and (ok- again I'm getting too wordy here). I think I helped the hospital that day. I think staying w. that family, listening to them, allowing this "discovery" to be made- may not have helped the patient, or at least not as much as if I had the knowledge and skills to know what I was seeing earlier on- but I think I might have made the difference re: a potential lawsuit.

I don't know.

In an ideal world, nurses who don't want to teach can just say flat out "I don't want to do this".

As an aside to any Nurses reading this PLEASE do not give "general info" just to get a student out of your hair. I have seen and experienced how that can have an awful impact on the pt. (and truthfully, nursing students are terrified of hurting pt.s- at least the one's I go to school w. We're not going to spend lots of time pointing fingers. We're just going to feel horrible about hurting someone). Really, it's just safest all around to tell someone you don't want to deal w. students. It's understandable and really so, so much better than the alternative.

Thanks for posting. I think your question was calmer and better worded than mine. I am feeling tons better, just thinking about this. Biggest thing is to not feel trapped by a situation and there are alternatives. They may not seem very comfortable (like going to an instructor and saying your client/RN situation is becoming "unsafe")- but I think I can do it.

ok- best to you.