If costs to get an Accelerated BSN (called a Second Course in the Philippines) is not an issue at all. And all things being equal, assuming both schools will give you a chance to sit for and not necessarily pass the NCLEX, would you choose #1 or #2?
Quiz:
1. Go get your education in a college that takes 5 trimesters in the Philippines and the last trimester (total of 2 years and 1 summer) finishing up in a college in the US. The total cost range is Php65k-Php128k. Upon graduating in the US, you only get an ADN degree and not a BSN degree, but you still graduate as a US student.
2. Go get your education in a university that charges roughly Php700/ unit, takes about 2-3 years depending on your pacing (full time or part-time). You don't graduate as a US student but you get a BSN degree rather than an ADN degree, nonetheless?
Anyone want to answer this quick quiz? Just need a general feel for the vox populi. :stone
Specializes in ACNP-BC, Adult Critical Care, Cardiology.
i did check and the first group of 12 students are on there way to fresno this may to complete their last semester (4 months). i talked to the school administrator/director and depending on the performance of the 12 students, they have an agreement with kaiser permanente in ca to hire the 12 students (again based on their performance, passing the nclex, etc, etc.). those who opt not to work with kp will have the option of continuing their bsn in a school in mo (i think.)
doesn't that tell you something already? "depending on the performance of the 12 students...." that pretty much tells you they are hiding something from you and not letting you know that there is no guarantee in this program. has any graduate actually sat for the nclex, passed, and was offered a job? that's what i would want to know for myself before i would venture on something out of the ordinary like this. there is time and money investment involved here. i'm sorry, i personally wouldn't put my trust in something like this especially since it involves my future.
the only reason i mentioned medical school agreements between countries was just to prove a point that there exists such agreements between countries in the realm of education and that it is not a "frowned upon" policy, nor is this a new concept. i am aware that the fmg are treated like second class citizens in the usa and that they have no priority over other students. i am not exactly sure by what you said, that they are not eligible to sit for the usmle, because they are the ones that are thrown into the rural, under-served, under-paid, over-worked areas that no us md wants, so they must have taken the usmle before practicing. i worked with several of them, so i know these fmgs personally and i can privately send you their names. (btw, fmg means foreign-educated, meaning they have never had a single subject/course taken in the us and have never set foot in a us school-like setting and their bottom has never sat on a chair in a us school campus).
i suggest you do some research on these medical schools well. of medical schools located out of the us but has arrangements for clinical rotations within us states and territories, only 2 names stand out. american university of the caribbean in st. maarten and st. george's university in grenada. the graduates of these 2 schools can sit for the usmle in all states. graduates of programs such as st. matthew's university in cayman islands are unable to sit for the usmle in california. this link gives you a list of other such schools: http://www.mbc.ca.gov/applicant/schools_unapproved.html
i also suggest you check with medical licensing boards in other states such as indiana, kansas, and texas as they have similar rules regarding such schools.
i don't know anything about the fmg docs you are referring to and please don't send me their names, that's irrelevant. if they were able to sit for the usmle, they likely graduated from a foreign school that is widely accepted in all the us states.
i was just stating a fact to suzanne that such an agreement exists whether or not the student is hired on or not. somethings are true, even if you do not believe in it. even if you look down on that particular country, even if you think they are incapable and incompetent, even if you think that they are not as smart as americans, even if you think they are the stupidest creatures that roamed the earth. would you be able to stop and think for awhile that it could be possible that such an agreement can exist, second class citizen, non-employable or not?
i guess you can be right, if you want to play you're future like a las vegas slot machine. my point is, it's a big gamble. i would rather register in a reputable institution that i know has produced nurses who are currently in practice over an institution that has nothing to prove yet. that lessens my chances of failure and disappointment in the future.
not convinced? give you one more example. a close personal friend studied engineering in the philippines. applied to a school in io, finished up in the last 2 semesters in io. hired on by a computer software company in atlanta. lucky? or just competent? or was there an agreement between the school in the philippines and the school in io? if this can happen in engineering, what more a profession such as nursing?
excuse me, but what state is io? i don't recall running across that abbreviation.
the same way that trade agreements exists in durable and non-durable goods between the us and other countries, it is not a new concept to have trade agreements in terms of education and/or experience. i have had some professors in my mba class in slc who were foreign-educated (meaning not a single class taken in the usa) from canada, middle east, india and mexico and they were hired on to teach and work here. what more students who initially studied in other countries like the philippines and ended up in fresno to complete their education?
again, you'll have to look at that on a case-to-case basis. where did these guys graduate from? are they reputable schools in their respective countries? a university of the philippines graduate will probably have a better chance of having an advanced degree recognized overseas. not that i like up or anything 'cause i didn't even graduate from there. in my mind, the program you are defending is from a newly-established and obscure school that is based in the philippines, named after the founder of the jesuit order and yet not even listed as a religious school, offers an adn program in nursing that is not even recognized in the philippines, and is founded by a california pediatrician. ummmm, i'd run away from that school.
one can argue it is a totally different profession, but the fact i am trying to make that nobody seems to catch on, is that " it is not a new concept". it is not frowned upon, it is not illegal (of course, you should check credentials).
new concept or not. i still am not conviced that that school you are referring to can deliver.
if not, kaiser permanente will not even allow their well-renowned name to be even remotely associated with this lowly, scum bag school. it would be a federal offense to claim such and is punishable by law (both here and abroad) for illegally hawking the kaiser permanente name. or else this lady director should be thrown in the slammer for misrepresentation. she should be disbarred from her profession and her reputation must be smeared. and if i do find out that it is all a scam, believe me, i will be the first one to report this school to the federal authorities, but for the meantime i am offering a fact that suzanne seems to disagree, that it is not a new concept.
ummm, have you checked with kaiser permanente about this school? i would do that first before allowing this school to name-drop. the last time i checked the school in missouri this institution is alleging they have agreements with for bsn completion have changed names and yet they were still using the old name for that school. kinda fishy, i think.
if you research the adn/bsn school in st. kitts. i believe they offer the same kind of program. taking the medical school out of the equation, this nursing school has the same program as the one in the philippines. i doubt that the island of st. kitts is better than the philippines.
well, you're an adult. you can do whatever you feel is right. i'm really just here to caution you. by the way, what is preventing you from applying to reputable nlnac or ccne accredited nursing schools in the us anyway?
thank you for the opportunity in cerebral calisthenics.
All being aside from everything else, there still is not one student that has graduated from that program and is working in the US currently. It also does not matter what a school tells someone, this program is still not a full US program and one does not know how it will be accepted.
You will also be always considered as a foreign nurse, training for four months in the US does not grant someone a full American degree. And of you would have just asked what you were looking for instead of coming up with all of these roundabout questions, then perhaps one would be able to give you a straight forward answer.
But the final item still is that there is not one student that has made it to the US to work. And any facility can be named as having an agreement with someone, but that does not mean a thing as a job offer cannot even be legally made until a nurse passes the NCLEX exam.
Connie; your premise is based on "so called 2nd courser" programs which pretty much ended this June. The CHED (Commision on Higher Education) has implemented a longer BSN path (4 years plus 3 or even 4 summers) or a 5 year BSN program in total. In addition, regardless of prior degrees, YOU MUST QUALIFY with all courses related and all clinical hours to the new BSN curriculum. This in effect has eliminated "accelerated courses" or "2nd coursers" programs and force new BSN candidates to follow a uniformly prescribed degree program, whether you are a Doctor or a an Arts teacher looking for a new career.
For those schools that advertise, "study here in the Philippines and finish up in the USA..." just what will you gain by this process? If you study BSN in the Philippines, you MUST PASS the NLE to be a registered nurse here. Soon most states in the USA will require an RN Licensure in the country you studied in before sitting for the Boards in each US state.
Do these international programs confer a Philippine BSN degree? If so, then they MUST PASS THE NLE ....so where is the advantage?
If they promise a USA confered ADN or BSN, please let me know of one student who got that degree and RN licensure in the USA. I don't believe that scenario has taken place, so we are back to the first question, is it indeed a Philippine BSN?
The program that she is discussing is the two year ADN, and that is not accepted for licensure in the Philippines. We are expecting more and more states to require the local license now and that is not possible with that training.
And the fact that it was designed for foreign nurses from there originally and not those that have lived in the US for years; but really a moot point as there are no visas and even if someone has the green card or the US passport, the fact remains that not one grad from this program is actually licensed and working in the US.
With these new rules that are going into effect, hopefully it will make it safer for patients all over the world as now everyone is watching. And even for the students that are coming over here to complete the last semester of this program, there are still no visas available for them even if they did their entire training in the US, and expected wait is about five years for a chance at a green card and that is the only way that they will be able to work in the US since it also does not meet the requirements for a temporary visa of any type since there is no BSN title bestowed on them when they finish.,
Suspect that the school never saw this coming and wonder what they are going to do about it if it is going to be five years for them to be able to begin work here, or chance at it, and they cannot get licensed in their own country, nor get visas to work in any other country with the two year training. So with the US out of the picture plus more and more states requiring the local license, then how are they going to get experience and we are expecting the US to require experience as well as most other countries do now.
If a country does not recognize a training program, then why in the world does one wish to go thru it? Makes no sense at all to me or to most others here and that goes for the LPN training there as well.
Corey Narry, MSN, RN, NP
8 Articles; 4,476 Posts
i did check and the first group of 12 students are on there way to fresno this may to complete their last semester (4 months). i talked to the school administrator/director and depending on the performance of the 12 students, they have an agreement with kaiser permanente in ca to hire the 12 students (again based on their performance, passing the nclex, etc, etc.). those who opt not to work with kp will have the option of continuing their bsn in a school in mo (i think.)
doesn't that tell you something already? "depending on the performance of the 12 students...." that pretty much tells you they are hiding something from you and not letting you know that there is no guarantee in this program. has any graduate actually sat for the nclex, passed, and was offered a job? that's what i would want to know for myself before i would venture on something out of the ordinary like this. there is time and money investment involved here. i'm sorry, i personally wouldn't put my trust in something like this especially since it involves my future.
the only reason i mentioned medical school agreements between countries was just to prove a point that there exists such agreements between countries in the realm of education and that it is not a "frowned upon" policy, nor is this a new concept. i am aware that the fmg are treated like second class citizens in the usa and that they have no priority over other students. i am not exactly sure by what you said, that they are not eligible to sit for the usmle, because they are the ones that are thrown into the rural, under-served, under-paid, over-worked areas that no us md wants, so they must have taken the usmle before practicing. i worked with several of them, so i know these fmgs personally and i can privately send you their names. (btw, fmg means foreign-educated, meaning they have never had a single subject/course taken in the us and have never set foot in a us school-like setting and their bottom has never sat on a chair in a us school campus).
i suggest you do some research on these medical schools well. of medical schools located out of the us but has arrangements for clinical rotations within us states and territories, only 2 names stand out. american university of the caribbean in st. maarten and st. george's university in grenada. the graduates of these 2 schools can sit for the usmle in all states. graduates of programs such as st. matthew's university in cayman islands are unable to sit for the usmle in california. this link gives you a list of other such schools: http://www.mbc.ca.gov/applicant/schools_unapproved.html
i also suggest you check with medical licensing boards in other states such as indiana, kansas, and texas as they have similar rules regarding such schools.
i don't know anything about the fmg docs you are referring to and please don't send me their names, that's irrelevant. if they were able to sit for the usmle, they likely graduated from a foreign school that is widely accepted in all the us states.
i was just stating a fact to suzanne that such an agreement exists whether or not the student is hired on or not. somethings are true, even if you do not believe in it. even if you look down on that particular country, even if you think they are incapable and incompetent, even if you think that they are not as smart as americans, even if you think they are the stupidest creatures that roamed the earth. would you be able to stop and think for awhile that it could be possible that such an agreement can exist, second class citizen, non-employable or not?
i guess you can be right, if you want to play you're future like a las vegas slot machine. my point is, it's a big gamble. i would rather register in a reputable institution that i know has produced nurses who are currently in practice over an institution that has nothing to prove yet. that lessens my chances of failure and disappointment in the future.
not convinced? give you one more example. a close personal friend studied engineering in the philippines. applied to a school in io, finished up in the last 2 semesters in io. hired on by a computer software company in atlanta. lucky? or just competent? or was there an agreement between the school in the philippines and the school in io? if this can happen in engineering, what more a profession such as nursing?
excuse me, but what state is io? i don't recall running across that abbreviation.
the same way that trade agreements exists in durable and non-durable goods between the us and other countries, it is not a new concept to have trade agreements in terms of education and/or experience. i have had some professors in my mba class in slc who were foreign-educated (meaning not a single class taken in the usa) from canada, middle east, india and mexico and they were hired on to teach and work here. what more students who initially studied in other countries like the philippines and ended up in fresno to complete their education?
again, you'll have to look at that on a case-to-case basis. where did these guys graduate from? are they reputable schools in their respective countries? a university of the philippines graduate will probably have a better chance of having an advanced degree recognized overseas. not that i like up or anything 'cause i didn't even graduate from there. in my mind, the program you are defending is from a newly-established and obscure school that is based in the philippines, named after the founder of the jesuit order and yet not even listed as a religious school, offers an adn program in nursing that is not even recognized in the philippines, and is founded by a california pediatrician. ummmm, i'd run away from that school.
one can argue it is a totally different profession, but the fact i am trying to make that nobody seems to catch on, is that " it is not a new concept". it is not frowned upon, it is not illegal (of course, you should check credentials).
new concept or not. i still am not conviced that that school you are referring to can deliver.
if not, kaiser permanente will not even allow their well-renowned name to be even remotely associated with this lowly, scum bag school. it would be a federal offense to claim such and is punishable by law (both here and abroad) for illegally hawking the kaiser permanente name. or else this lady director should be thrown in the slammer for misrepresentation. she should be disbarred from her profession and her reputation must be smeared. and if i do find out that it is all a scam, believe me, i will be the first one to report this school to the federal authorities, but for the meantime i am offering a fact that suzanne seems to disagree, that it is not a new concept.
ummm, have you checked with kaiser permanente about this school? i would do that first before allowing this school to name-drop. the last time i checked the school in missouri this institution is alleging they have agreements with for bsn completion have changed names and yet they were still using the old name for that school. kinda fishy, i think.
if you research the adn/bsn school in st. kitts. i believe they offer the same kind of program. taking the medical school out of the equation, this nursing school has the same program as the one in the philippines. i doubt that the island of st. kitts is better than the philippines.
well, you're an adult. you can do whatever you feel is right. i'm really just here to caution you. by the way, what is preventing you from applying to reputable nlnac or ccne accredited nursing schools in the us anyway?
thank you for the opportunity in cerebral calisthenics.
the pleasure is mine