Richard Titmus wrote in his concept of social policy about what he called the 'stranger'. He said the ultimate in social policy is to give to the stranger because you recognise that she or he is the same as you. You don't give to the stranger because they are hungry or because they are tired but because you recognise the problems of hunger and tiredness. In other words you see them as part of yourself and part of what you are responsible for. If you see them as 'the Other, you don't get that sense of responsibility.
John Rawls, who talks about justice, also uses a similar sort of model by saying that if you punish other people you always have to work on the basis that it might happen to you, which is another formulation in a slightly different format.
It is a fact in the USA that 64 million people do not have health insurance, which means there is a third world country within a country that boasts to the world that it is apparently the best.
Thanks! You've said it better than me. It's the middle class. Too rich to qualify for income-based program, too poor to afford a lot of the healthcare we may need. It extends to lots of other areas too. Like paying for college!
Larry, it is the great paradox of this nation. Of course, over and over again, we've told you we care for our poor. So need to go there.
But you're right it is very inequitable. The answer to your last question is we are a capitalistic country, rooted deeply in the puritan work ethic, you work for what you get. Those captilistic industries have grown into a trillion dollar economy with a very tight fist on those dollars. I'm not defending it, just stating it.
I think it's the middle class that is squeezed as bad, if not worse that the poor. I need to get a physical for school and get some tests to check on my bad liver. I haven't been to a doctor in ten years. I'm already thinking "how much am I going to have to pay." My last illness was tonsillitis. I had to see an MD and go on antibiodics. I missed five days of work and lost night shift pay by using sick pay, I co-payed $100.00. I never went to the followup because I was better and didn't want to pay the co-pay. My insurance rates have went up sky high year after year after year without stop.
Had I been poor, I would have went to any ER, got a script and got seen and taken care of for free.
Have a little compassion for the working guy in the middle. :rotfl:
Perhaps the working guy in the middle would be better off with more affordable insurance?
Perhaps if the government had an interest in keeping healthcare costs down (preventive care) with government run insurance, you would not have to choose to not go for your follow-up appt.
Specializes in Specializes in L/D, newborn, GYN, LTC, Dialysis.
......and learn how to cook! I agree with Steph, buying junk in the long run costs you bigtime!
You can do a lot with a leftover chicken or turkey carcasses or hambone (DELICIOUS SOUPS)......and the basics. Always keep the kitchen stocked with staples like flour, sugar, spices, butter, veggies, fruits. etc. Bake from scratch, it's not that hard and you will KNOW you are not being filled with preservatives and other crap.
We only buy junk cause we tell ourselves it's cheaper and we are too lazy to do the work ourselves. It is CHEAPER to eat well, but you have to do some work in order to do so. You will pay for convenience, in ANY form, and the price can be very heavy.
As somebody who has walked a mile (or so) both in the USA and the UK as a patient I'd like to say this;
I've waited over an hour to see a doctor in the UK (The queue did not start at 4am
I've waited over an hour to see a doctor in the USA with health insurance and been told I had an infection one week after the labs were drawn.
Some newspaper/neighbour/Canadian/American will always have a different tale to tell.
Erm, doesn't anybody know of an American who certainly wasn't refused healthcare but had to remortgage their house? Because I do.
I've had this argument in my head a thousand times on which is better. The answer is, they both fail the public in different ways. But do please quit this "We're better than you are" nonsense.
......and learn how to cook! I agree with Steph, buying junk in the long run costs you bigtime!
You can do a lot with a leftover chicken or turkey carcasses or hambone (DELICIOUS SOUPS)......and the basics. Always keep the kitchen stocked with staples like flour, sugar, spices, butter, veggies, fruits. etc. Bake from scratch, it's not that hard and you will KNOW you are not being filled with preservatives and other crap.
We only buy junk cause we tell ourselves it's cheaper and we are too lazy to do the work ourselves. It is CHEAPER to eat well, but you have to do some work in order to do so. You will pay for convenience, in ANY form, and the price can be very heavy.
Yes, exactly what I was trying to say. Shortcuts by using "convenience" foods are costly. And not as healthy.
Perhaps the working guy in the middle would be better off with more affordable insurance?
Perhaps if the government had an interest in keeping healthcare costs down (preventive care) with government run insurance, you would not have to choose to not go for your follow-up appt.
I just do not feel comfortable with the government having MORE interest in anything, that is why I vote republican, no hand-outs, I prefer freedom to determine my own fate, thank you. And my husband and I have been VERY poor in the past, but it never occurred to us that it was up to anyone other than US to change our circumstances. And, if we could do it, and do not write me nasty things about how I have NO idea how bad it can get, I DO KNOW, anyone can do it, just make wise choices.
Specializes in Specializes in L/D, newborn, GYN, LTC, Dialysis.
I agree with Tweety. It's the middle class that is being squeezed the most. I know too many who work fulltime, working their butts off, some at more than one job--- that cannot afford or are being denied health coverage. This is so wrong! I think if you work, you should have access to AFFORDABLE coverage. Yes, to me, before ONE SINGLE NON-CITIZEN in this country gets health care free of charge, a working American citizen SHOULD FIRST. JMO and I know I will take flames for this....so the asbestos suit is on now.
I am personally in need of $11,000. worth of dental work at this time. That is, if I want to keep my teeth. I have dental insurance, but it won't pay for any of this work. It will only pay for me to have all of my teeth removed and get dentures, which I'm not willing to do.
My dh is a research scientist, I'm an RN. We have no kids and drive two old cars. We do have a new TV, but the old one was 14 years old, and not doing well. Our computer is old. Our house is modest. We do not use credit cards. We owe big student loans from my dh's grad degrees.
I worked my way through school and took no loans.
I will be able to pay for my dental work, it won't be easy, but I can do it.
Now, here is the situation of a daughter of a friend of mine:
LPN, single mother, gets no child support, owes a lot on school loans. She has a full time job in a nursing home. Her employer does not offer any ins.
She has a severely abcessed tooth. Dentists refuse to see her, no ins. ER refused her- "not life threatening, no ins".
Last week she was in so much pain while at work, she asked a co-worker to inject her w/ lidocaine so she could finish her shift.
She then had her friend I&D her abcess in the bathroom, after work.
She is packing the wound herself, and taking ABT left over from a deceased pt.
This is a nurse working a full time job.
I once worked a nsg home that offered no health ins. A CNA needed an emergency appy. She was not turned away at ER. But her wages are now being so heaviliy garnished, she's lost her apartment. She probably would have lost it anyway, as she missed so much work, and this employer offers no PTO.
We took up a collection at work to pay her rent. We gave it to the landlord. He took it for back-rent owed, then had her evicted 3 days later. This CNA and her child are staying temporarily with the tx nurse and his family.
I feel that our gov't should guarantee some type of health ins coverage for the working poor.
I agree with Tweety. It's the middle class that is being squeezed the most. I know too many who work fulltime, working their butts off, some at more than one job--- that cannot afford or are being denied health coverage. This is so wrong! I think if you work, you should have access to AFFORDABLE coverage. Yes, to me, before ONE SINGLE NON-CITIZEN in this country gets health care free of charge, a working American citizen SHOULD FIRST. JMO and I know I will take flames for this....so the asbestos suit is on now.
No flames from me, only applause for your statement.
Specializes in Specializes in L/D, newborn, GYN, LTC, Dialysis.
I am personally in need of $11,000. worth of dental work at this time. That is, if I want to keep my teeth. I have dental insurance, but it won't pay for any of this work. It will only pay for me to have all of my teeth removed and get dentures, which I'm not willing to do.
My dh is a research scientist, I'm an RN. We have no kids and drive two old cars. We do have a new TV, but the old one was 14 years old, and not doing well. Our computer is old. Our house is modest. We do not use credit cards. We owe big student loans from my dh's grad degrees.
I worked my way through school and took no loans.
I will be able to pay for my dental work, it won't be easy, but I can do it.
Now, here is the situation of a daughter of a friend of mine:
LPN, single mother, gets no child support, owes a lot on school loans. She has a full time job in a nursing home. Her employer does not offer any ins.
She has a severely abcessed tooth. Dentists refuse to see her, no ins. ER refused her- "not life threatening, no ins".
Last week she was in so much pain while at work, she asked a co-worker to inject her w/ lidocaine so she could finish her shift.
She then had her friend I&D her abcess in the bathroom, after work.
She is packing the wound herself, and taking ABT left over from a deceased pt.
This is a nurse working a full time job.
I once worked a nsg home that offered no health ins. A CNA needed an emergency appy. She was not turned away at ER. But her wages are now being so heaviliy garnished, she's lost her apartment. She probably would have lost it anyway, as she missed so much work, and this employer offers no PTO.
We took up a collection at work to pay her rent. We gave it to the landlord. He took it for back-rent owed, then had her evicted 3 days later. This CNA and her child are staying temporarily with the tx nurse and his family.
I feel that our gov't should guarantee some type of health ins coverage for the working poor.
perfect examples of what is so damn wrong in this country. Dental health is not even considered important to overall health in this country. I know many coworkers who have NO dental coverage due to inability to afford it....or undercovered and can't have procedures due to noncoverage. It's sad and it's gonna cost us ALL in the long run. Without your dental health, your overall health WILL suffer. But no one cares. I,too have to have a few thousand dollars' worth of work done....but my son needs braces. We will be paying bigtime soon for all this.......and yes, it's more expensive to keep your teeth than to let em all go to pot and get dentures. What the HELL is wrong with us??? I just do not feel anyone who works for a living should go without health care coverage.....not everyone is looking for handouts, just a hand UP. does that make sense?
I have another friend- LPN, works full-time. DH works full-time, they have three kids, and live in a modest apt. I just lent her several hundred dollars to pay medical bills not covered by her ins.
Specializes in Specializes in L/D, newborn, GYN, LTC, Dialysis.
It is difficult to reconcile for me, the Republican way of thinking in some ways. I honestly do not get it.....
They don't want government involved in their lives----no no no---they scream long and loud about that. Yet, they embrace the big brother environment we live in post- 9/11.
Funny, we don't want the government taking care of those who can't do so for themselves, but it's ok they whittle away our right to privacy each and every day, down to nothing. I just don't get that...
And what is the answer? Oooh... that's right! "Work your way out of the situation". Or make wiser choices.......hmmmm.....
Ok, then...... but just how is it some are supposed to work their way out, when they work fulltime already and STILL cannot get coverage???? Or, their company suddenly triples the cost of, or simply does away with, medical coverage for its employees? (it could happen to any of us, and has already to some). What was a "wise choice", to go to college, graduate, and secure what you thought was a good job, only to be downsized or put out of work 5 or 10 years later......
You know, sometimes wise choices still don't help you out of a bad situation. so, What is a person supposed to do then? I think, like I said , before, a hand UP is fair...not a handOUT. What kind of nation has no interest in the health of its working citizenry? And how freaking stupid----as it's off the backs of these middle class workers everyone ELSE gets theirs!!!! It's beyond stupid. :angryfire
kukitty
30 Posts
Thanks! You've said it better than me. It's the middle class. Too rich to qualify for income-based program, too poor to afford a lot of the healthcare we may need. It extends to lots of other areas too. Like paying for college!