PNAP

Nurses Recovery

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Hello. I am just wondering if there are other individuals who have successfully completed, or are currently in, PNAP program and have a career as a nurse? I just entered the PNAP program and am doing everything possible to completely recover and be a better husband, father and nurse. There are many articles listing negative reviews about PNAP and just curious if there are any updated comments anyone has on them. Thank you.

First of all--Do not miss your drug screen! Call your IOP and tell them you will be late, or tell them you will not be there tonight. You ARE allowed to have a few absences. Make sure you call though, don't just not show up. OR go to IOP and then drive the 40 minutes to the place open all hours. Yes it is an inconvenience. Yes it sucks. The whole thing sucks. Don't let an extra inconvenience screw this up for you again. There's bound to be a lot more of them. It's part of the game. If you want to win the prize (your freedom), you have to do whatever it takes to play to win.

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MaxDog is exactly right. We are playing a game much like "mother may I". To "win" the game you have to follow the rules exactly. Of course the only definition of "winning" is getting these folks outta your life. I actually think these programs could be a meaningful thing if they took the punitive edge off them and didn't try to drain every nickel from you which is the exact opposite of what we have going on. I think their are probably many nurses out there hiding their addictions issues and not addressing them for fear of naked and spiteful punishment for punishment's sake. This is probably how these programs started & then over-controlling and most likely corrupt (there is a ton of cash floating around here) nurses and cash seeking rehab industry types coopted the process. I know that I would never consider seeking help openly for an addiction issue if I was a nurse and honestly the pains and issues of addiction for many are probably easier to deal with then the butt-whippings attached to this mess. Similarly, if I ever hit a roadblock in this program I would very likely look for a way to live without nursing even at my advanced age and the fact that I have so much invested in my career. This whole process is an abomination

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Best advice for everyone who can afford it, don't speak to them at all before speaking to an attorney. PNAP tries their hardest to take away your rights. You own your license, so fight for it.

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Good day,

This is my first post on here. My wife gave me a link to this thread. I am currently working with some lawmakers to try to get PNAP reformed. The program is a one-size-fits-all, forces us to leave our jobs without the ability (usually) to get back into a comparable position, and it has a high rate of recidivism. The idea that forgetting to check a urinalysis is treated the same as a relapse is crazy. There should be a way to get test as soon as a person realizes they have missed. I suggested having the day a person is select, and the next day, to be able to get the test. We have lives. If anyone wants to help me, feel free to get in contact. The state is doing their budget currently and they will be reviewing our case right afterward. Right now, the proposal is with the Auditor General. He thinks we have a shot. We need more voices though. Honestly, right now I'm working on my own. I know about 30 PNAP nurses, but everyone is apathetic. They agree with change, but aren't willing to make a move. We are Cash For Nurses.

Good luck in the program,

Tommy Lee RN, BSN

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On 6/13/2019 at 2:30 AM, facemuscles said:

Good day,

This is my first post on here. My wife gave me a link to this thread. I am currently working with some lawmakers to try to get PNAP reformed. The program is a one-size-fits-all, forces us to leave our jobs without the ability (usually) to get back into a comparable position, and it has a high rate of recidivism. The idea that forgetting to check a urinalysis is treated the same as a relapse is crazy. There should be a way to get test as soon as a person realizes they have missed. I suggested having the day a person is select, and the next day, to be able to get the test. We have lives. If anyone wants to help me, feel free to get in contact. The state is doing their budget currently and they will be reviewing our case right afterward. Right now, the proposal is with the Auditor General. He thinks we have a shot. We need more voices though. Honestly, right now I'm working on my own. I know about 30 PNAP nurses, but everyone is apathetic. They agree with change, but aren't willing to make a move. We are Cash For Nurses.

Good luck in the program,

Tommy Lee RN, BSN

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I know many who have signed that online petition

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Specializes in Bottom wiping.

I was 3 months shy of graduating from PNAP when I tested positive for ETOH. I was honest, admitted it and they extended my contract another 3 years. After a year or so I just couldn’t afford to pay for it anymore and quit. License is now suspended. I’m in the process of changing careers and enjoying my life for the first time in a Long time! Never going back. They lost a really good nurse who just happened to have a disease that didn’t even affect her work.

I know other nurses in DMU who completely relapsed on illegal substances and have only had one or 2 yr suspensions. The whole system is unfair. I’m on an NPDB list for not being able to afford to continue, meanwhile other DMU suspended nurses are NOT and working in hospitals as aids etc.

I had such a bad experience I never want to return to the field.

It needs to end.

Also! As I no longer had an attorney PNAP told me to reach out to my BON. Prosecutor with any legal questions. Which I did. The lady I contacted, let’s just call her “Peg” REAMED ME OUT globally for contacting her. I apologized and a few days later she sent me another scathing email asking why I was continuing to contact her. I hadn’t. She had read the original email again!

Total incompetence!

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Nightmare scenario. Thank you for sharing this as I’m starting to see light at the end of the tunnel and not a day goes by when I think how nice a drink would be. I couldn’t do it either. I’d rather work in a low paying job then survive another three (closer to four) in reality. God bless and good luck

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@facesmuscles any update on the legislation? Can you give a link to the article or a draft?

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On 6/13/2019 at 2:30 AM, facemuscles said:

Good day,

This is my first post on here. My wife gave me a link to this thread. I am currently working with some lawmakers to try to get PNAP reformed. The program is a one-size-fits-all, forces us to leave our jobs without the ability (usually) to get back into a comparable position, and it has a high rate of recidivism. The idea that forgetting to check a urinalysis is treated the same as a relapse is crazy. There should be a way to get test as soon as a person realizes they have missed. I suggested having the day a person is select, and the next day, to be able to get the test. We have lives. If anyone wants to help me, feel free to get in contact. The state is doing their budget currently and they will be reviewing our case right afterward. Right now, the proposal is with the Auditor General. He thinks we have a shot. We need more voices though. Honestly, right now I'm working on my own. I know about 30 PNAP nurses, but everyone is apathetic. They agree with change, but aren't willing to make a move. We are Cash For Nurses.

Good luck in the program,

Tommy Lee RN, BSN

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1 hour ago, Anonynurse66 said:

@facesmuscles any update on the legislation? Can you give a link to the article or a draft?

I'm new to allnurses and I dont know too well how to post on here. I think someone sent me a private message and I dont know how to respond.

Is there a way that I direct message you? I'll send you the proposal I sent the state government. So far, the initial proposal went well. It moved on to some specific politicians that agreed with it and I had to write a paragraph to send to other possible supporters because they seem to avoid reading anything long. I'm waiting until they finish the state budget to have a face-to-face with them to try to move forward with making real changes.

My other concern is that PNAP will try to yank my license. They have a vested interest in continuing most of the stuff I want to revise, so they might try to come after me. My goal to get on the radio and make this a big issue at some point. That way I can let the public know that that is a likely scenario.

So, as I stated, if you can explain how I send info directly, I'll get it to you tonight. I'm back in school for an unrelated nursing degree so I can transition my career if things don't work out, so I'll be on my computer most of the evening writing a paper.

Thank you for your question and I'm sorry if I missed anyone else. I signed up for Allnurses when I wrote my first post. Trying to figure it out.

TL

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11 hours ago, facemuscles said:

I'm new to allnurses and I dont know too well how to post on here. I think someone sent me a private message and I dont know how to respond.

Facesmuscles,

same here. This website won’t let me send a PM until I have 15 “quality posts.”

Anyway, I wonder if we could petition that the application be changed as well as PNAP. There are two things that strike me as grossly unfair on the application for pa

one is:

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Have you been convicted (found guilty, pled guilty or pled nolo contendere), received probation without verdict or accelerated rehabilitative disposition (ARD), as to any criminal charges, felony or misdemeanor, including any drug law violations? Note: You are not required to disclose any ARD or other criminal matter that has been expunged by order of a court.

Including ARD and probation without verdict in with convictions is totally against what these dispositions actually mean! The whole point of probation without verdict is that there is not a conviction, and that the defendant will be able to move on with their lives eventually.

the other question that strikes me as ridiculous is

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Do you currently engage in, or have you ever engaged in, the intemperate or habitual use or abuse of alcohol or narcotics, hallucinogenics or other drugs or substances that may impair judgment or coordination?

giving people a choice between lying and crucifying themselves is a terrible strategy. At the very least, put a time limit on there. There’s enough of a stigma with addiction/alcoholism without closing the door or adding barriers to meaningful careers for people with years clean and sober.

any idea if modifying the application is feasible ?

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8 hours ago, Anonynurse66 said:

Facesmuscles,

same here. This website won’t let me send a PM until I have 15 “quality posts.”

Anyway, I wonder if we could petition that the application be changed as well as PNAP. There are two things that strike me as grossly unfair on the application for pa

one is:

Including ARD and probation without verdict in with convictions is totally against what these dispositions actually mean! The whole point of probation without verdict is that there is not a conviction, and that the defendant will be able to move on with their lives eventually.

the other question that strikes me as ridiculous is

giving people a choice between lying and crucifying themselves is a terrible strategy. At the very least, put a time limit on there. There’s enough of a stigma with addiction/alcoholism without closing the door or adding barriers to meaningful careers for people with years clean and sober.

any idea if modifying the application is feasible ?

This had not be posed to me before. I will add it to the information I have to present in a few weeks. I appreciate you pointing this out. This is exactly why I'm trying to get in touch with nurses, because there are so many issues like this self-incrimination nonsense that makes it where the net of so-called addiction/alcoholism can be spread over a group of people with no current issues. Are we all to be punished? Especially when some of our habits are general experimentation in our teens? Or it could be from a difficult time in our lives that we moved past and have no real consistent record of abuse. The information they request is misleading. I will address it.

Thank you for your perspective,

Tommy Lee Porter II, RN, BSN

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