PhD or DNP to become Faculty?

saheckler, PhD, RN · Jun 6, 2019

When you say non-tenure track, do you mean clinical track faculty? Or adjunct? What kind of teaching do you see yourself doing and what type of teaching position do you see yourself in? Do you have a preference for what kind of institution you want to teach in? Depending on your answer, it's possible that a master's in nursing education might be a good option for you.

I would say that one of the biggest considerations in PhD vs DNP is whether or not you want to do research. The PhD program is designed to give you the skills you need to build your own program of research and become an independent researcher. If you're not excited about research then I think it will be a struggle to push yourself through a rigorous research-based program.

While most PhD programs that I'm familiar with are designed to launch graduates into post-docs then tenure track positions, that doesn't mean you have to do tenure track when you're finished; there are other options too. What are your reasons for not wanting to do tenure track? I think your answer to that question is important in figuring out whether or not a PhD program would be right for you.

adventure_rn, MSN, NP · Jun 10, 2019

Those are all excellent points, saheckler.

When I say non-tenure-track, I guess I'm thinking of my own professors. I attended a well-ranked nursing program at a state school affiliated with an academic hospital. Even so, the majority of my didactic classroom instructors were masters-prepared with no involvement in research. However, their job titles were as assistant or associate professors, and I don't think they were considered adjunct faculty. To my knowledge, many were full-time faculty; only about 5% of my instructors were tenured or tenure-track. Granted, that was five years ago, and since then, there's a new Dean who has mandated that they receive a doctoral degree (either PhD or DNP).

I'm not sure what the tenure vs. non-tenure trajectory looks like at different institutions (or if a full-time non-tenure trajectory even exists).

I suppose my hesitation about becoming tenure-track faculty is that I'm not 100% certain that I'd like to be a career researcher. I love my research topic enough that I'm sure I could easily stick with it for the 3-5 years that it would take to acquire a PhD. However, I'm not sure if I'd like to be a nurse researcher in a full-time, lifelong capacity. I do love teaching, and I think I'd enjoy teaching nursing students (both as a clinical instructor and in a classroom setting). I guess I'm wondering if there's a way to do that full-time, and what credentials would be required.

I understand that there are MSN programs in education; however, since so many programs prefer doctorally-prepared nursing instructors, I'm trying to figure out if it makes the most sense to skip the MSN and move straight into a PhD or DNP program.

llg, PhD, RN · Jun 10, 2019

If you don't want to be an NP, then I would not do an NP program. That would seem like a waste of time/effort/money to me.

It's hard for me to imagine a reputable school discriminating against a PhD. It's the highest degree and I can't imagine a school saying, "Gee, you have the knowledge, skills, and experience we are looking for ... but that PhD is a problem." If you have funding for the PhD, use it. Once you have it, you can do as much or as little research as you want to do -- just choose a job that is consistent with the role that you want.

I have a PhD (NICU clinical background) and work in staff development. I also teach 2 courses per year at a local university. Neither job requires me to do research. But I do an occasional small project when I want to.

emmasuern · Jul 3, 2019

Have you thought about teaching clinicals at your local school? My city has a CC and University and the requirements are 3 years bedside experience with a BSN. This will give you a pretty good idea if you really want to teach long term. This experience will also open the door for you if you want to teach with a PhD.

I recently finished my PhD and our program does not fund their students or give stipends. You are extremely lucky if that is being offered to you. I used money from the Nurse Faculty Loan Program to pay for my program. I had to work part-time on the side to pay my bills. NFLP offers 85% loan forgiveness after working as faculty for 4 years. I wish I would have been funded and given a stipend. I would probably be going into industry instead of teaching to have my loans forgiven.

adventure_rn, MSN, NP · Jul 10, 2019

On 7/3/2019 at 11:43 AM, emmasuern said:
I wish I would have been funded and given a stipend. I would probably be going into industry instead of teaching to have my loans forgiven.

Out of curiosity, what industry jobs are available to nurse PhDs? I've heard this concept thrown around, but I've never gotten a clear answer.

saheckler, PhD, RN · Jul 15, 2019

On 7/10/2019 at 12:17 PM, adventure_rn said:
Out of curiosity, what industry jobs are available to nurse PhDs? I've heard this concept thrown around, but I've never gotten a clear answer.

I've heard of PhD prepared nurses taking jobs as research analysts, data analysts, research scientists, etc. I've seen positions like this with various non-profits (usually public health related), large health departments (NYC had one that sounded interesting to me), the CDC or NIH, pharmaceutical companies, and probably beyond. I think the jobs are out there but it can be tough to find out about these options because there is such a push to stay in academia if you go the PhD route. I think there are also a lot of jobs available to PhD prepared nurses that are not focused on research, but I know less about those since research is what I want to do.

I would recommend talking to as many nursing faculty and PhD and DNP program directors as you can. A PhD or DNP program director should be able to tell you about what previous students have done after graduation and give you a feel for how supportive the program would be of alternative career paths. It might be hard to be in a program that really pushes research and academia as a career path if that is not where you see yourself (major research institutions might not be a good fit if you're interested in teaching but not a research career).

It sounds like you are already giving this a lot of thought and looking into your options, which is great! I'm sure you will make a solid decision. The nice thing is that any advanced nursing degree opens all kinds of doors, so it's hard to go wrong because there is so much versatility. I have met nurses in all kinds of unexpected positions! I'm sure whatever you choose, you will be able to carve a career path out of it that suits you.

emmasuern · Jul 17, 2019

I meant to respond to this earlier and I apologize for the delayed response. Prior to my PhD program, I worked as a Clinical Research Nurse. I worked with drug and device companies to assist with clinical trials. I worked at a very large hospital in Houston and worked on some very interesting trials, including stem cell therapy and gene therapy. I loved the work! I had multiple sponsors that said I should reach out to them when I was done. I knew most of the positions they wanted me for would probably have heavy travel and I didn't feel like 80% travel at this point in my life. Not all of the jobs with industry are heavy travel.

I really do enjoy research. I decided to do a PhD program because I wanted to be able to have more control over the type of research trials that I was working on. I'm starting a tenure track position at an education-focused school and I don't see myself doing much research in the future. I'm currently doing stats work and study design for a research study with an old classmate. I did 3 years of TA in one of the grad level stats courses and people love to pick my brain. This morning I was helping a DNP student with her stats interpretation for her DNP project. I never imagined I would be helping people with statistics when I went back to school.

jeanbeth, MSN, DNP, RN · Aug 24, 2019

I went from an MSN with a specialty in Patient Administration to a DNP. I was a charge nurse in a LTC facility and was not an APRN or NP. I wanted to get into education and that's what I do today.