saheckler

I think the reputations of Purdue Global and ChamberlaIn are similar. I would recommend looking into online DNP programs at institutions such as Baylor, FIU, Florida State, Georgetown, etc. — these programs are also online and have a better reputation (whether deserved or not, I don't know). But again, I think it depends on your goals and needs and how important reputation is vs other considerations.

I took one class there to fill a prerequisite for my PhD program and had a bad experience. It felt like remedial education—the instructor was trying to share basic writing skills, job and life skills, at the level I would expect in a high school class, and it was completely unrelated to the course (health policy). He also spouted a lot of hot political takes, which is I think just a reflection of that instructor being unprofessional and bad at his job, rather than a reflection of Purdue Global. But overall I didn't have a good experience. Is there a DNP program you could do through a not for profit school that has a better reputation and similar or lower cost? If the purpose is just to get the piece of paper that says DNP and Purdue Global makes the most sense logistically for you, then go for it, but otherwise I'd recommend exploring further. Lots of DNP programs now are remote or hybrid, so I'm sure there are other good options. Good luck!

It's the National Clinician Scholars Program. It's an interdisciplinary program with physicians and doctorally-prepared nurses that focuses on getting people with clinical expertise into the research space, in particular related to health equity. It heavily emphases community-engaged research, leadership, policy, and advocacy, rather than just churning out journal articles that sit behind paywalls and are only ever read by other academics and don't actually improve anything. Many NCSP alumni go on to academic roles, but there are also many that do really interesting things outside of academia and actually use their training to make those real world changes to make the world better. I think it'll be a good transition point to learn more about what careers are possible and where I want to go. Take a look at it! They're in the midst of an admissions cycle, so there are lots of info sessions going on this month and I think applications are due in July (double check that though -- I may be mistaken on the deadline). Here's their website: https://nationalcsp.org/

Not sure if I'm replying too late, but I would recommend reaching out directly to current PhD students. Hopefully they have their PhD students listed somewhere on their page? If not, you can reach out to the nursing admissions office or the PhD program director and say you're really interested in the program and are hoping they can connect you with some current students. I recommend keeping in mind when talking to current students that they can only be so honest with you because their advisor, program faculty, and program directors have PhD students' careers in the palm of their hands, so make sure to read between the lines (I know this as a current PhD student at another school -- my experience with my advisor and program in general has been pretty bad; I try to share as much as I can with prospective students, but saying anything negative about my advisor or program is a huge career risk because of potential for retribution, so I can only hint). If you don't get glowing endorsements of the program and your prospective advisors from current students, that might be a red flag. Students who have graduated may be able to be a bit more honest with you (depending on how closely connected they remain to their advisor, and whether or not they fear retribution). Hope I haven't scared you -- we need nurses with PhDs and I know there are supportive faculty and supportive programs out there! I hope WashU/Goldfarb ends up being a great fit for you. Good luck!

Hi everyone, I see this is still getting some responses, and I noticed I posted this almost exactly a year ago. It's amazing what can change in a year. I'm expecting to finish my analyses next week. I'm about to submit my first dissertation paper for publication, and only have to write results and discussion for papers 2 and 3 and a brief final conclusion chapter, then I'll be done. I'm on track to graduate this Spring/Summer and I have a (nontraditional) post doc lined up starting this Summer. I still plan to high tail it out of academia and I can't say, at least not yet, that I'm glad to have stuck it out, but at least it's almost over. For anyone contemplating a PhD program, I have some advice -- please, please, please prioritize a supportive advisor and supportive program environment above rankings, faculty's NIH funding, and whatever other metrics and accolades that are supposed to indicate a "quality" program. I've had a pretty bad experience in a program that looks ideal on paper. Talk to current and past grad students of prospective advisors, and if they don't give a glowing endorsement, take that as a big red flag (current students will be unable to say anything negative about their advisor because it would be a major career risk, so read between the lines; this probably still applies to past grad students as well, especially if they stayed in academia, but if anyone will be open and honest, it's more likely to be students who have graduated and are not formally under their advisor's thumb anymore). Also, please don't sacrifice your physical and mental health to your program. I've sacrificed mine, and will probably have some permanent consequences as a result. It's not worth it, even if the sacrifice helps you find some short term success (and even if it's a sacrifice you're willing to make, in the long term it will likely hurt your chances of success because it'll catch up with you eventually). If anyone is contemplating doing a nursing PhD or deciding on a school, please feel free to reach out. I'm happy to share the lessons I've learned with others.

Thank you for sharing your perspective! I appreciate it. I agree, it is primarily about persistence. It's hard to see any humor in the situation right now and I don't value sticking with something just for the sake of not quitting -- that's not enough of a reason for me. But at this point I only have about 9 months left so there's light at the end of the tunnel, and I've found a post doc that I think I might have a shot at. The post doc isn't very traditional and I think it will help me transition out of academia, which is super motivating. I think at this point I might as well stick it out. I'm glad to hear you think it was worth it -- I hope I will feel the same! Thank you for weighing in!

Congratulations on graduating and passing the AANP! I would highly recommend choosing the type of doctoral degree you want based on your career goals. You didn’t say why you want a doctoral degree, so I can’t tell if you want one because you have career aspirations that would require it, or it’s something you just want to do for yourself, etc. I’m in my 4th year of a nursing PhD now, and I would enthusiastically dissuade anyone from getting a PhD (or probably any doctorate period) unless it’s necessary for what you want to do, because it is absolutely brutal. (This may vary widely from program to program, but I think this is pretty consistent at schools that bring in major NIH funding or that are highly ranked, not that the various ranking methods are great). I was told when I started out that if I could achieve my career goals without a PhD, then I shouldn’t get one because it’s not worth the sacrifices (e.g., money, time, physical and mental health, relationships with family, friends, significant others, etc.). I disregarded this advice. I have been really disappointed in academia and plan to leave, and although I will be able to put my PhD to use in a research career outside of academia, I could have done the same with a master’s in epi or health policy. I have to keep my plans a secret from all faculty in my department -- in a lot of PhD programs, it’s really frowned upon to acknowledge any other career beyond academia. This is a common experience in PhD programs unfortunately. I’m not sure if other doctoral programs have this type of stance, where they limit their idea of success to one very specific career type, but it might be something worth asking as you explore different types of programs and degrees to be sure you won’t be pigeonholed. That said, since you are really interested in research and statistics and it sounds like the only thing holding you back is the pay in academia, it might be good to know that there are other things you can do with a nursing PhD. You could work in industry (e.g., pharmaceuticals), at a think tank (e.g., Rand, Mathematica) or nonprofit, or be an administrator, etc. Many of these positions pay really well (especially pharma) and much better than academia. Also, academia can pay pretty well, depending on the school (keep in mind that higher paying schools will also require a lot more hustle and weekly time commitment to get the volume of publications and grants necessary for tenure). A PhD is a research degree, so if you don’t plan to use a PhD for a research career, regardless of which type of research job you get, then I don't think it's worth your time. Also, some of the positions I described above would be possible with a master’s in public health, as long as you choose research heavy courses and really build your research and stats skills. So, I think a PhD in nursing could potentially be a good fit for you, with some caveats. If you’re interested in education, you could consider an EDD. I don’t know a lot about it, just that it’s an option that nurses sometimes do. I don't know much about a DNP at all. You could consider a DrPH, but that would probably lead you to the lowest paying jobs of any of your options. I hope some of my ramblings are helpful for you. It sounds like a PhD might be a good fit for your interests and skills, but I would do some hard thinking about whether it’s required for the career you want. No matter what, I would really recommend starting by thinking about what your career goals are, then working backwards to identify what you need to get there. A doctorate may not be necessary, and if it isn't, I wouldn't recommend it. Good luck! I’d love to hear back from you in this thread when you make a decision!

Thank you so much @HamRN_13. I really appreciate your perspective and the validation. It's great to know that after you dropped out, you found a different program that fit better, probably in terms of career-wise and timing. That definitely gives me something to think about.

Hi @NewUtahn, I'm in a PhD program right now and am happy to talk with you if you'd like! Just send me a message. I think the answers to some of these questions depend on the type of program you're interviewing with. If you are interviewing with a school that really prides itself on NIH funding, churning out publications, etc., then they will want to hear that your goal is to become nursing faculty at a research-intensive institution, pulling in NIH grants for your program of research in XXX topic. You don't have to have an exact research idea, but the more specific you can be, and the better that research idea fits with the school's priorities and their faculty's research interests, the better. If you have some steps laid out that you plan to take on the way to that goal, even better, because it shows you know what you're getting into and are committed to this type of career. Examples include that you are hoping to write a grant (an F31 if you're going to NIH) on XXX topic so you can then write your dissertation on XXX topic (should match your grant topic) and secure a post-doctoral fellowship in XXX area, during which you will write a K (another NIH grant) to start you out on the right foot in a faculty position, because you want to ultimately be an expert on XXX and build your own independent program of research in this area. The one faculty member in your interview is likely there as a prospective faculty advisor for you (that's usually, but not always, how it works), so keep that in mind. If you think that might be the case (I.e., maybe you mentioned this faculty member in your essay or they have some overlapping research interests), then make sure you are very familiar with that faculty member and their research and be able to say how you would fit with them as a mentor. I don't think this is necessarily the time to be extremely forthcoming with all of your research interests. I think it's find to have a couple of different areas of interest or research ideas, but it will not look good if you seem all over the place or unfocused -- they'll want you to have a clear idea (or a couple of clear ideas) about what you want to study and build expertise in. Yes, students change topics all the time, and it may be fine to give them like more than one research interest, but just realize this might be a risk. I would be prepared to talk about how your previous experiences have informed your research interests and prepared you for this program -- especially if you have research experience, but don't be worried if you don't have research experience yet (they wouldn't have called you for an interview if they didn't already decide that you were qualified). Think about your transferrable skills and what you bring to the program through your experiences. How do your clinical and other skills uniquely situation you to do the kind of research you want? Also, maybe think about what are some skills or areas of expertise you hope to gain or build on in the program? (Be careful with that part -- any skills or expertise you wish to gain should fit in the narrative of how you're hoping to become nursing faculty at a research-intensive institution running an independent program of research in XXX). Overall, you want to give them a nice, neat little narrative about how your previous experiences have given you XXX skills and have informed your research interests in XXX ways, and so you hope to do XYZ on your way to becoming an expert independent faculty researcher in XXX. You can have some breadth to your interests, but they should all have some tie back to this narrative. In terms of what makes a candidate mentorable -- I guess I would say similar research interests, being driven, being a self-starter and self-motivator, taking responsibility for driving the mentorship relationship, having similar goals and vision for your career as your mentor, taking harsh feedback well, grit and determination and perseverance. I'm sure there are more. Again, I'm super happy to talk with you or meet with you if you'd like -- just send me a message. Happy to answer any questions in this thread as well. Good luck!

Thank you so much @m4howie. I really appreciate your perspective and your thoughtful response -- this is really helpful and gives me a lot to think about. I'll have to do some more introspection and think about what I want. And I hope that you will apply for those management jobs!

Hi Mikolagarde, I think your first step is to figure out whether you want a PhD or a DNP -- they are very different degrees and fit different career goals. A PhD's main (or even sole) focus is research, whereas a DNP is focused on practice. DNPs also learn about research, but there is nowhere near as much emphasis on statistics and research methods as in a PhD program, so if you are really focused on research, a DNP is probably a poor fit. A DNP won't prepare you as well for a research career and if your goal is to get a tenure track research faculty position at a top school of nursing pulling in multiple NIH grants and leading research teams and major studies, it might be incompatible (I can't say it's impossible -- I personally just don't know of any nurses in this type of position without a PhD). On the flip side, a DNP would be a much better fit if you're more passionate about advanced practice nursing and deepening your clinical expertise. A DNP would also enable you to get a clinical faculty position at a top nursing school, and you would likely be able to participate in (maybe even lead) some research, but likely not to the same extent as a PhD nurse in a tenure-track research faculty position. Both degrees would qualify you to teach nursing, although the specific courses you're qualified to teach will likely depend on your specific area(s) of expertise. In terms of tuition for programs, I do not recommend going into a PhD program unless it's fully funded (I.e., all tuition and program fees are covered AND the school guarantees to pay you a stipend, ideally at least $25,000 annually, and pays for your health insurance, for at least 3-4 years of full time study). There are plenty of PhD programs out there that are fully funded, so it doesn't make much sense to pay for a PhD, especially because a PhD program is so grueling and intensive that it's very difficult to work to support yourself (and many programs restrict students from working more than 10 hours a week), AND salary prospects as a PhD nurse are not necessarily great (you would make much more as a DNP or as an experienced RN than in many nursing faculty positions). I can't really speak to DNP program tuition -- I don't know if there are funded DNP programs out there, but I would imagine that there are some loan repayment programs and your DNP salary will be higher than if you get your PhD, so it might not bear the same financial risk as paying for a PhD. I hope this helps! Best of luck to you as you make your decision!

Just curious because I'm having some thoughts about quitting and not sure whether or not I should push through. What did you do instead when you dropped out? Or alternately, what made you stay? Do you ultimately feel good about your decision, and why/why not? Struggling a bit over here and would love to hear from others who've maybe been in the same place. Thank you!

Hi Dinma, I double checked the UC Irvine website PhD application requirements and here's what I found: An undergraduate or graduate statistics course that will cover or did cover descriptive and inferential statistics. This statistics course must have been completed within 5 years of starting the program with a grade of B or higher. Courses must be taken for a letter grade – credit/no credit and pass/not pass courses will not be considered. If it has been longer than 5 years, this course can be taken online or in-person at a community college, a university/college, or university extension. If you are on the cusp of the 5 year deadline, we strongly encourage you to retake statistics during the Summer before starting the program. Applicants are required to upload a signed copy of the Statistics Acknowledgement form in the UC Irvine Graduate Application. Have you taken a stats course that covers descriptive and inferential statistics within the last 5 years? It sounds like you can still apply if you haven't fulfilled the above requirements, and if that's the case, then here are the instructions I found: If you have not completed this requirement at the time of applying, please review the information below: If it has been longer than 5 years, this course can be taken online or in-person at a regionally accredited community college, university/college, or university extension. You may take this course during the Summer before starting the program; however, you will be required to send a copy of your final course transcript reflecting your final grade to UC Irvine’s Graduate Student Affairs Office by the start of the Fall term. You are responsible for enrolling in the course by the appropriate deadlines. If you fail to complete this requirement by the start of the Quarter, you will not be permitted to continue in the program. Exceptions to this policy will not be granted. So, it sounds like you can find any local or online course as long as you make sure beforehand that they cover descriptive and inferential statistics. Some options for online courses are Southern New Hampshire University, UC Berkeley extension, Arizona State University, University of Phoenix, Kaplan, Purdue Global, and plenty of others out there. Personally, I prefer not for profit universities (Univ of Phoenix, Kaplan, and Purdue Global are for profit; the first 3 I listed are not, as far as I know). They should all have course listings and information on how to register on their websites. I had to take an online health policy prerequisite (which I did through Purdue Global) and it was pretty simple. However, I didn't have a great experience with the class itself -- it was easy (I.e., we didn't learn much) and the professor was unprofessional, inappropriate, and didn't actually teach or lecture -- he just assigned textbook readings and discussion posts and that was it. Hope this helps! Best of luck with your application.

Hi there, I think this doctoral thread might be really helpful to you (I wrote a very long winded response about my experiences in my PhD program, some of which may be helpful to you, and there are many other comments there that may provide insight that you're looking for here): To answer your questions: 1.) I did research with a professor at a school of public health for a year before I applied, and I authored one publication through this experience. I think this really gave me an edge when I applied because not every applicant has research experience. The way I got this experience was by reaching out to a research assistant at a research center within the school of nursing and school of public health at my alma mater (I stayed local after graduation). I asked if he'd be willing to meet with me to tell me more about the center and what he does, etc. He met with me and connected me with the director of the center, who emailed all the center faculty and asked if anyone would like to work with me (I was willing to put in several hours a week as a free research assistant for the experience). I would highly recommend this if you can. I also had experience as a project manager for a research project that was going on at my work and did a poster presentation on an intervention I piloted at work. I think these experiences were also very helpful and gave me an edge when I applied to programs. Anything you can get involved with that is research related will help you, both in gaining admission and in preparing you for the program. Get creative and think about how you can frame your professional experiences in your application in a research context -- maybe you've done things professionally that have given you skills that would transfer well to research, or that have given you a passion for a particular research area or question. Those are all good things to put in an application. 2.) In terms of daily life as a PhD student, I think this can be variable from program to program. I'm a full time PhD student (usually only full time students get free tuition and a stipend). I unfortunately have a really unhealthy work life balance and work pretty extreme hours. It is definitely not self-paced because our funding ends at the end of our 3rd year, at which point our stipend stops and we have to pay tuition, so there is a rush to finish in 3 years. Public health PhDs are done in more like 4-5 years, and that's often with a master's in public health going in so they have a head start -- my point here is that nursing typically squeezes a PhD into a very short time frame, and the pace can be grueling. Theoretically, after students finish the required coursework and are in dissertation phase they could slow the pace a bit, but typically you're not in dissertation phase until at least 1.5-2 years into the program, so your first 1.5-2 years would still be at a fast pace regardless. It's possible to buy yourself more time by getting a grant, such as an F31 from the NIH, which is excellent preparation for a career in academia, but grant writing is a very intense and time-consuming process on top of an already intense program. A part time PhD program may offer better work life balance (I'm not sure because I don't know much about part time programs), but there may be cons to part time -- it's likely that you'd have to pay for tuition, wouldn't get a stipend, and it might be harder to take advantage of all the same opportunities and mentorship that you would get as a full time student -- and the experiences outside the classroom are just as important, if not more important, than coursework. I think that if we really want to boost the number of PhD prepared nurses, we have to start making PhD programs more accessible by making part time programs more viable and attractive for people because many nurses get their PhD after years of working professionally and often can't do a full time program because we may have more responsibilities financially and personally than a 22 year old right out of undergrad. I think it's certainly possible to get an excellent PhD education part time or full time; you just may want to think about the relative pros and cons and how they apply to you personally and how each fits with your goals and life, etc. Also, I do want to point out that I do know of nurses who have done PhD programs with young children at home, or who have been pregnant during part of their program or their post-doctoral fellowship, etc. I don't know a whole lot about their experiences, but it certainly can be done! Being a parent may also help you keep things in perspective, and maybe you will find that after being a parent, a PhD doesn't seem so tough after all! 3.) My program is fully funded for 3 years; most programs that offer full funding seem to offer it anywhere from 2-4 years from what I've seen. I have never come across a nursing PhD program that offered funding for part time PhD students (but maybe they do exist?) So, I think you would have to do some calculating to see what the costs would be -- even if you have to pay tuition for a part time program, if you are also able to work part time throughout your program, you may still be in a better place financially than if you were fully funded in a full time PhD program, just because stipends are so low (the typical stipend in nursing seems to be $25,000 per year or less). For example, if your annual tuition and fees cost $30,000, if you could make at least $55,000 a year working part time then you would be just as well off financially as if you were a full time student with a $25,000 stipend and free tuition, so depending on what you make and what your tuition and fees would cost at the schools you apply to, it might be worth it. Another thing to consider is that because nursing PhD programs are typically squeezed into a short time period (3-4 years rather than 4-5 or even longer), there is a big push for nursing PhD grads to do a 1-2 year post doctoral fellowship after graduation, to help make up for the fact that even with an accelerated pace, you can only squeeze so much into a 3 year program. Usually in a "post doc" you would make a much more reasonable salary than a PhD student stipend (I think somewhere around $50,000 a year typically, although there are a few, such as maybe the VA, that offer more). But, this is nowhere near what most RNs make, so it's an additional one to two years of making a comparatively low salary, which can be an added financial burden. The necessity of a post doc depends somewhat on your career goals too -- if you want to be at a teaching intensive university rather than a top ranking R1 research intensive university, you may not need to do a post doc. It's also possible to get a faculty position at a high ranking university right out of the PhD program, especially if you've secured NIH grant funding, published a lot, won awards, etc. I'm planning to do a post doc because I think I will need and want that extra time to learn more research skills and publish more so I'm better prepared for the next step. I hope that I'm not discouraging you with all this, but I think it's important that people really know what they're getting into when they start a PhD. I have struggled with work life balance and am feeling a bit disillusioned with academia. It can be a toxic environment with absurd expectations in terms of productivity and work hours. However, there are many people who figure out how to manage their time well and who find a good work life balance and who are productive and successful while still keeping nights and weekends for themselves. I have struggled with this (I'm at a top school of nursing, which I think adds to the stress and pressure) so please take my perspective with a grain of salt. I would say that when you apply to programs, do everything you can to make sure that the program has a supportive environment, values collaboration over competition, and values work life balance. Personally, I would also stay away from schools that don't offer full funding for full time students (even if you decide to go part time and they don't have funding for part time students), not only for the financial benefit, but because funding is another indicator of how willing the school is to invest in their students in other ways too. A PhD program can be really exciting and invigorating and can provide opportunities to make a huge impact with research. There is a big shortage of nurses with PhDs and we need more nursing research, more nurses' voices being heard and nurses with a seat at the table in policymaking and health-related organizations, and we need a next generation of nursing faculty to teach! If you are excited about research and academia, then go for it! Just make sure that you really do your research on the programs you apply to and that you know what you are getting into -- that will really help you choose a program that's a good fit. I think it's all going to work out for me in the end, but if I could go back in time I would not have chosen my current program, even though there are many positive aspects to it. I hope this helps and please reply or DM me if you have more questions. It's hard to find nurses with PhDs and nurses in PhD programs to talk to when you're thinking about applying or in the application process because we're so few and far between, so I'm happy to help -- a lot of PhD students really went above and beyond to help me out so I'd love to be able to pay it forward (I think that is one extremely wonderful thing about nursing academia -- my experience has been the opposite of the "eat our young" phenomenon; nurses in academia at all stages have been so incredibly generous about helping to pave the way for me and others). Good luck!