:angryfire I have been an LPN for 36 years. For the last 20 I have heard talk
of phasing out LPN's. When I read the local paper all I see is CNA, and
CMA ads. For all my years I have been a charge nurse or in charge.
just exactly what does the medical community think these largely untrained persons will take the place of LPN's and they won't have to pay them.
Well, I hope and pray that this does not happen. Anyone out there agree.
Or do you think LPN's should be phased out and there just be Rn's and
cna's.
What makes me so mad is that the doctors can pull anyone off the street and train them as an "MA" they obviously take the responsibitly under their license. LOL I wouldn't want someone like that treating my family members.
Yikes!!! There is no way that I would let an aide pass meds under my license. I mean in nursing homes seems like they rule the roost. putting in caths etc. i mean why am I even going to school? I am sorry to be so rude but aides need to stick to B & Bs (baths and bathrooms) ADls only. I found it funny that in nursing school we are taught that you are never to pass meds that another nurse pulled but they will allow uneducated people to pass them that probably can't pronounce, say what it does, or side effects. I am sorry but an aide is an aide. I talk to a hospital in my area and she said that i could work a as a tech after the first semester. she said i could start before the semester but i would have to be an aide and that would be a waste of my skills because aides there do ADLs only. I am sure they will see me as a threat but oh well.
Isn't that the truth...do you really believe this would be allowed to go on on a pedi floor or a nursery. I know this is moslty applied to nursing homes but if it does become in the hospital environment...
This is a dangerous situation. Instead of fixing the outmoded and broken down healthcare system, they further complicate the lives of nurses by hiring UAP. No matter what new designation of healthcare worker is created to ease the nursing shortage, RN's are still ultimately responsible for the actions of UAP and LPN's. This was made very clear to me when I was visited at work by a State Board of Nursing official. An LPN made an error and I was blamed. When I protested, pointing out that she was licensed and had 10 years more nursing experience than I had, they said "Too bad...you're the RN, and you're responsible." So, I am ultimately responsible for the actions of everyone even those minutely involved in patient care on my floor, excluding other RN's. Unrealistic, unreasonable, and not worth it.
Recently Read That They Want To Make It Legal For Extra Staff To Also Pass Some Medications Due To The Nursing Shortage. I Find This Rather Scarey. About 8 Years Ago I Was Working And A Cna Came To Me And Said A Pt Was To Tired To Go To Lunch So She Was Going To Let Her Sleelp Awhile More..as I Entered The Room I Found The Pt. Going In To Diabetic Shock Symptoms Were Very Obvious To The Trained Nurse. I Realize There Is A Nursing Shortage And Rn's Are Becoming Very Involved With More And More Responsibilities...........lpn's Are Vital And Are Recieving More And More Education........lets Hope This Is Realized To Many Lives Would Be At Risk...
:angryfire I have been an LPN for 36 years. For the last 20 I have heard talk
of phasing out LPN's. When I read the local paper all I see is CNA, and
CMA ads. For all my years I have been a charge nurse or in charge.
just exactly what does the medical community think these largely untrained persons will take the place of LPN's and they won't have to pay them.
Well, I hope and pray that this does not happen. Anyone out there agree.
Or do you think LPN's should be phased out and there just be Rn's and
cna's.[/quote
RNs are responsible for the actions of anyone under their supervision. If a CNA is "licensed" to pass meds where I worked I would write a formal notice to my Board , the medical director, and the managing group that I refuse to accept the responsibility of the CNA due to the lack of knowledge of side effects, etc.,etc. Then I would go elsewhere. I've been there a long long time and I still have to keep my med book handy. As to phasing out LPNs, I think this is stupid. LPNS are valuable members of the nursing community. It's just a matter of finances because, as I've been told, "RNs can do more and we can save money". To he-- with money, what about the patients' safety? If you think your board is backing this decision then find out straight from the horse's mouth, which is what I plan to do. We are all licensed nurses and we need to start standing up for ourselves. Get involved with nursing organizations and have your voice heard. Good luck to all of us.
I'm just wondering, as an LPN, if I were working in a facility where CMTs were allowed to pass out medications, that I were to refuse to hand a CMT the keys to the medication cart?
I know this is just a hypothetical question and there could be alot of different situations this could occur under, but what if an LPN or RN did refuse?
They would undoubtedly have to pass the meds themselves, but what is the alternative.....allow an unlicensed person to pass under MY or under YOUR license?
I worked too hard to get my license, and I can't see being responsible for CMTs.
I know, as previously posted, that the RN is ultimately responsible even for LPNs mistakes......but I can attest to the fact that LPNs also suffer the consequences of making a mistake. I've had to write a medication error before, same as anyone...we are not perfect. It goes on my personnel record.
What consequences is a CMT going to suffer?
In Arkansas, I don't think we are using CMTs as widely as some other states. I know for a fact that many years ago the facility I work in USED to allow aides to pass out the medication. But they stopped that, and started hiring all LPNs to do the job. I work in Developemental/Disabilities.
I searched my SBN last night and their policy is that the person receiving the medication MUST be able to follow the directions on the label. The type of people I work with canNOT read. They have been trained one way to administer their own medications, and if the doctor should increase or decrease the dosage then that person has to be retrained. WHO, is doing that retraining?? I have helped train some of these people before they were discharged into a homelike setting, called "group homes", but I know for a fact that most of these people can't read.
I figure there is more than just assisting going on.
:angryfire I have been an LPN for 36 years. For the last 20 I have heard talk
of phasing out LPN's. When I read the local paper all I see is CNA, and
CMA ads. For all my years I have been a charge nurse or in charge.
just exactly what does the medical community think these largely untrained persons will take the place of LPN's and they won't have to pay them.
Well, I hope and pray that this does not happen. Anyone out there agree.
Or do you think LPN's should be phased out and there just be Rn's and
cna's.
As a former LPN that returned to school and completed the transition to RN, I have heard this argument too many times. There is a need for all health care workers regardless of the title. Happy holidays.
I'm just wondering, as an LPN, if I were working in a facility where CMTs were allowed to pass out medications, that I were to refuse to hand a CMT the keys to the medication cart?
I know this is just a hypothetical question and there could be alot of different situations this could occur under, but what if an LPN or RN did refuse?
They would undoubtedly have to pass the meds themselves, but what is the alternative.....allow an unlicensed person to pass under MY or under YOUR license?
I worked too hard to get my license, and I can't see being responsible for CMTs.
I know, as previously posted, that the RN is ultimately responsible even for LPNs mistakes......but I can attest to the fact that LPNs also suffer the consequences of making a mistake. I've had to write a medication error before, same as anyone...we are not perfect. It goes on my personnel record.
What consequences is a CMT going to suffer?
In Arkansas, I don't think we are using CMTs as widely as some other states. I know for a fact that many years ago the facility I work in USED to allow aides to pass out the medication. But they stopped that, and started hiring all LPNs to do the job. I work in Developemental/Disabilities.
I searched my SBN last night and their policy is that the person receiving the medication MUST be able to follow the directions on the label. The type of people I work with canNOT read. They have been trained one way to administer their own medications, and if the doctor should increase or decrease the dosage then that person has to be retrained. WHO, is doing that retraining?? I have helped train some of these people before they were discharged into a homelike setting, called "group homes", but I know for a fact that most of these people can't read.
I figure there is more than just assisting going on.
What can we, as nurses, do about this?
Get other nurses together who are facing the same issues, including RNS. All of you document specifics as to who, what, when, where, etc. and send these to your boards. Call the Boards to follow up and document this. The Boards may not be aware of the situation but they definitely will make a formal decision that you can use to confront whomever is allowing this to happen.
I'm hope that this isnt true! It makes me angry that LVN and LPN dont get the credit they deserve now! I mean look at johnson and johnsons commercial about discover nursing all those nurses titles are RN's. Who gives the right to decide whether or not LPN or LVN are vanquished.
I hear you, Vicky! When I was a DON in assisted living, I used to watch these gals with barely a high-school education giving medications like digoxin and Coumadin, and I'd think WOW, I went to school for four years to learn how to do that!! It scared me that they could give these high-alert meds and not know the signs of toxicity, or what to do if somebody started bleeding and didn't stop, or even why they were giving them.
I don't know about anyone else, but I personally did not go to nursing school so I could be a paper-pusher. (That's why I left management.) If I wanted to do that, I could've gone to business school........The powers that be need to leave the medication-giving to the people who know how drugs work, why they work, and what to do when they don't work or when they actually harm someone. And that, my friends, is US---LPNs and RNs. I don't want to look down on CNAs or UAPs, because they do a hard job and most of them are wonderful at it; but they just do not have the education & training to give medications safely IMHO. I agree with Vicky: we should NOT give up this part of nursing, or allow it to be taken away from us without a fight. Our patients' lives may very well depend on it.
I wonder if the people who come up with these stupid ideas ever think to themselves, "Hey, what if the patient was MY mom or dad---would I want someone who can barely spell 'warfarin' to be giving it to them"? :stone
Specializes in CVICU, PICU, ER,TRAUMA ICU, HEMODIALYSIS.
First it was the PCT's that eliminated ALL of the LPN positions at one University hospital where I worked; it did nothing but decentralize the lab and EKG departments and thrust more work onto the RN's because the PCT's couldn't give meds. Now NC is going to take another step in the wrong direction; and aside from the fact that ONE licensed person cannot possibly monitor the responses to potentially hundreds of medications for 30 patients, who is liable if Miss Med aide gives the right drug to the wrong patient? Short of going with the MA when she gives the drug, which sort of defeats the purpose of having them in the first place, how can any nurse "certify under oath" that any drug was actually given to a specific patient. And what about drug diversion? I think California and Arizona are or were looking at the feasibility of using the Med Aides and I thought Ca. went through with it; does anyone know for sure. Any nurse, RN or LPN, who would take a position using Med Aides might as well start Law School at the same time because eventually she will be needing a good attorney.:angryfire
First it was the PCT's that eliminated ALL of the LPN positions at one University hospital where I worked; it did nothing but decentralize the lab and EKG departments and thrust more work onto the RN's because the PCT's couldn't give meds. Now NC is going to take another step in the wrong direction; and aside from the fact that ONE licensed person cannot possibly monitor the responses to potentially hundreds of medications for 30 patients, who is liable if Miss Med aide gives the right drug to the wrong patient? Short of going with the MA when she gives the drug, which sort of defeats the purpose of having them in the first place, how can any nurse "certify under oath" that any drug was actually given to a specific patient. And what about drug diversion? I think California and Arizona are or were looking at the feasibility of using the Med Aides and I thought Ca. went through with it; does anyone know for sure. Any nurse, RN or LPN, who would take a position using Med Aides might as well start Law School at the same time because eventually she will be needing a good attorney.:angryfire
Sorry to say, but I was a med aide almost 5 years ago before getting my RN license in California at an assisted living facility. I only lasted 6 months at the job as I was trying to get out of this awful position working the night shift as the sole person responsible for changing diapers or assisting roughly 20 patients to the bathroom in the middle of the night q2hrs, handling emergencies, passing AM meds for about 5 residents (I occassionaly worked the evening shift where I passed many more meds), and getting 3 residents up and dressed. Not to mention there were roughly 90 residents total in the facility that could require my assistance at any time. The job just about killed me physically without assistance (other than the housekeeper who could help me in "emergencies"), but I did grow close to the patients and felt bad to leave them behind. We were allowed to pass PO's and ONLY "assist" with insulin administration and glucose checks. No invasive procedures. Drove the patients nuts that we wouldn't just give them their insulin injection or prick their finger. We weren't allowed and didn't even have equipment to check blood pressures. This was per our LVN director. Never did quite understand this. Drove the paramedics nuts when they'd come to the facility in the middle of the night and I didn't have vitals on the patients. I felt like my hands were tied. Some of the patients who were in our facility should have been in a nursing home or on an Alzheimer's unit. I recall one patient who had one of those baby rails on the side of the bed (bought by the family, mind you) and she attempted to get out of bed one night by climbing over this rail, which subsequently brought her and the rail down on to the floor. She had a nice lac on her forehead not to mention coffee ground emesis. I probably called medics 3 times for this woman due to falls. Her family kept bringing her back and insisted she was better off where she was. The last time I sent her out, they never brought her back. She was placed in a nursing home where she belonged. Too many horror stories to mention here that I'm surprised I remember so vividly now. Assisted living facilities were supposed to be for individuals who for the most part could care for themselves independently, but needed some assistance with activities of daily living. Medication administration should have still been kept in the hands of RN's and LPN's.
kambi2004
8 Posts
What makes me so mad is that the doctors can pull anyone off the street and train them as an "MA" they obviously take the responsibitly under their license. LOL I wouldn't want someone like that treating my family members.