One thing that is nails on chalkboard to me is when I hear my fellow nurses use double negatives and other blatant grammar mistakes. I'm speaking of English as a first language, domestically born and raised people.
I feel as this detracts from the professional image of nursing. We are supposed to be educated professionals. Poor grammar makes nursing look like a blue collar trade to those who are educated, such as our physicians and many members of the public.
Let me clarify that I don't harshly judge the intelligence or moral character of people with poor grammar. But, I feel strongly that nurses should project an image of being educated professionals in our speech and demeanor. Thanks for reading.
On a side note, does anyone have a problem starting a sentence with a conjunction? I was taught never to do it; however, I do it anyway. But (hehe) I try not to not overdue it. Anyone?
That used to be the rule. But the rule is a little stretchier than it used to be.
Language is a fluid medium. It's always changing and adapting. And there are talented writers who break rules with panache and make English stand on its head to our delight.
Context determines much. There's a huge difference between a conversation over pizza and beer and an academic article. Creative endeavors can dance a bit, while recipes and road instructions need to march with more order.
My rule for breaking rules is that it shouldn't be done out of ignorance but by an informed choice that another higher rule applies. I'll cometimes slip in a comma that isn't technically required if it provides clarity. In matters of emphasis, I might add extra bells and whistles To. Make. A. Point. Occasionally, doing something that's not "by the book" can illustrate an idea, liketheconceptofrunningwordstogetherbeingconfusing.
It's okay to play with language. It's not okay to be satisfied with sloppy usage. Still, I suppose poor communication is better than no communication at all. I would never intentionally embarrass anyone over improper usage--written or verbal--though I do edit on request. Even then, I try to be gentle--a hedge against the times when I make my own mistakes.
This consideration is why a thread like this is a wonderful outlet and a great relief for many of us, but the mod staff tends to frown on the grammar and usage police showing up willy-nilly on threads where language is not the topic. It can be distracting and embarrassing. In cases of very poor language skills (to the point where the meaning is unclear) we will sometimes PM the poster and ask them to perhaps have someone help them to clarify what they are trying to say.
As you can tell by my screenname, the written word is a part of my identity.
I LOVE this thread.
I LOVED your reply to my post. I completely agree.
Specializes in ER, ICU, Infusion, peds, informatics.
on a side note, does anyone have a problem starting a sentence with a conjunction? i was taught never to do it; however, i do it anyway. but (hehe) i try not to not overdue it. anyone?
i think it is fine when writitng conversationally.
i do it all the time in my posts here. the same idea can be conveyed using proper/formal grammar, but it takes more words.
i also start new paragraphs when it isn't indicated, simply because it makes things easier to read.
since the point behind grammar is to make things clear and make it easier to convey the intended meaning, i feel free to break those rules .
I wish this were done more often. I find myself skipping posts that just look like a big block of text.
I was a technical writer at one point. One guideline pumped into me was "white space is good."
I do the same thing - I get tired just looking at the big blocks of text and often when I do try to read them, I give up well before the end of the posts.
Specializes in Diabetes ED, (CDE), CCU, Pulmonary/HIV.
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two very good (and entertaining) books on punctuation and usage are:
"eats, shoots and leaves: the zero tolerance approach to punctuation," by lynne truss
and, "lapsing into a comma," by bill walsh.
i like my learning sprinkled liberally with humor.
i love "eats shoots and leaves" i thought they should have made 2 covers--one without the commas and a picture of a koala in a eucalyptus tree eating shoots and leaves. then one with the commas showing a cowboy in three frames--first eating, then shooting, then riding out of town.
Man, you people need to get a life ! My peeve, is nurses that can't do even simple calculations that can mean life or death. When I'm with a new grad in ICU or ER, we seldom write a complete sent. on a chart , let alone worry about grammer. Now if they calculate nipride wrong or do a calc for a child wrong, then I'm worried. Many times it you look at documentation, you can see why nurses are the way we are. We use odd abrevs, we chart in phrases that have little to do with the English lang. Then, you want us to compose a reply that seems to be going straight to my English proff. . Besides, you say it has to do with how we look to others. Who cares, this is just forums that med. workers type fast and furious. Give em' a break !(p.s. I didn't proof read this, and I'm really OK with that)
Thanks for explaining this further. It never occurred to me that anyone would ever think that I was suggesting that "an" be used before "RN" BECAUSE it was a title. Rather, I was saying that when you see RN written, (or are saying "RN"), you do not need to treat it as if it were the words "registered nurse", because "RN" is appropriate - it is a title. Therefore, you read it as it as it is written: "are enn", and would use "an" not "a". Never did I say that before ANY title would you use "an"...
I guess I misunderstood you then because you stated that you use an before RN because "it is a recognized title". I don't really care either way, I'm just saying... that you had me a bit confused.
Man, you people need to get a life ! My peeve, is nurses that can't do even simple calculations that can mean life or death. When I'm with a new grad in ICU or ER, we seldom write a complete sent. on a chart , let alone worry about grammer. Now if they calculate nipride wrong or do a calc for a child wrong, then I'm worried. Many times it you look at documentation, you can see why nurses are the way we are. We use odd abrevs, we chart in phrases that have little to do with the English lang. Then, you want us to compose a reply that seems to be going straight to my English proff. . Besides, you say it has to do with how we look to others. Who cares, this is just forums that med. workers type fast and furious. Give em' a break !(p.s. I didn't proof read this, and I'm really OK with that)
no.....this thread is about nurses attaining an image as educated professionals.
and no, we're not talking about standardized abbreviations.
we're talking about a very basic capacity to write/speak coherently and correctly.
nsg has several problems with its image.
the very least we can expect of ourselves, is an across-the-board ability to persuade the masses that we have at least, graduated high school.
but with (too) many nurses barely exceeding 8th grade english, it's no wonder we're not taken seriously.
so while i agree with your concern about math errors, i don't buy your laissez-faire attitude about basic grammar and spelling.
speaking for myself, i set standards for myself on a daily basis.
and knowing how to effectively and efficiently communicate, is one of them.
Specializes in ER, ICU, Infusion, peds, informatics.
man, you people need to get a life ! my peeve, is nurses that can't do even simple calculations that can mean life or death. when i'm with a new grad in icu or er, we seldom write a complete sent. on a chart , let alone worry about grammer. now if they calculate nipride wrong or do a calc for a child wrong, then i'm worried. many times it you look at documentation, you can see why nurses are the way we are. we use odd abrevs, we chart in phrases that have little to do with the english lang. then, you want us to compose a reply that seems to be going straight to my english proff. . besides, you say it has to do with how we look to others. who cares, this is just forums that med. workers type fast and furious. give em' a break !(p.s. i didn't proof read this, and i'm really ok with that)
we're not asking that people write in formal english when posting replies here. :)
the thing is, without some sort of attempt to use proper spelling/punctuation and refrain from a whole slew of abbreviations, it can be quite difficult to figure out the intended meaning of a post.
i've read posts asking for advice, and had to skip them entirely becuase i couldn't figure out what was going on, what was being asked........what was being said.
when posting about a problem/dilemma, it makes it more likely that the situation will be understood, and you might actually get some advice.
in a debate, making an attempt at writing correctly makes it more likely that your intended point is getting accross.
i don't think anyone is asking for perfection, but some posts are just flat-out painful to read.
i try to proof everything i post here, moslty to make sure my intended meaning is getting accross. since i can't spell worth a darn, i don't do a very good job proofing for it.
What about "irregardless"? This one double negative word gets on my nerves so much and I hear it everywhere. :angryfire
And, in written form, "Am" when someone really means "I'm."
What do I do that gets on my own nerves?
I say this constantly: "I can't hardly wait."
That's a double negative sentence. Boo me.
I'm not very good at formatting sentences or paragraphs correctly unless I spend hours editing. (You can probably tell by my posts.)
I'm sure there's more.
On a side note, does anyone have a problem starting a sentence with a conjunction? I was taught never to do it; however, I do it anyway. But (hehe) I try not to not overdue it. Anyone?
"Irregardless"...OMG! Everytime I hear someone say that, I want to slap them. It is actually a made-up contraction of two words: irrespective, and regardless. They combine these two words, and it drives me nuts. These people are so ignorant.
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zooz
196 Posts
I LOVED your reply to my post. I completely agree.