Personal malpractice insurance....yes or no?

Trauma Columnist · Aug 28, 2004

Mschrischo - its not the only point that you may get sued as an individual - personal malpractice insurance is important because of what your employer can do to you.

mscsrjhm · Aug 28, 2004

Mschrischo - its not the only point that you may get sued as an individual - personal malpractice insurance is important because of what your employer can do to you.

Something I hadn't thought of, or heard of. Thanks.

Going through the list in my head...

Keep you from getting fired? no.

Give me examples. Please.

Thanks.

Trauma Columnist · Aug 29, 2004

Sure - no problem - you follow hospital policy on procedure that is now unfortunately no longer current. Hospital backs you that what you did was fine and according to the then-current policy. However, you are sued along with the hospital because you didn't follow the CURRENT standard of care.

Personal malpractice insurance also ensures you representation before a board of nursing hearing. For example - at least in Illinois - if ANYONE is willing to put down on paper that a nurse did something wrong - it is completely investigated to include a hearing! It can be very nerve-wracking not to mention the time it takes to get to the hearing date.

Another instance - say a neighbor asks about tylenol dosages for their child - you say follow the directions on the bottle but don't say that if there is any concern at all, to call their doctor. The mother gives the child tylenol, the child goes to bed and becomes critically ill because mother didn't call the doctor.

Unfortunately, all of these instances did happen - not to me (cross my fingers and toes), but you are leaving yourself wide open to big problems w/o personal malpractice insurance.

The least problem is a lawsuit from where you work!

mscsrjhm · Aug 29, 2004

Sure - no problem - you follow hospital policy on procedure that is now unfortunately no longer current. Hospital backs you that what you did was fine and according to the then-current policy. However, you are sued along with the hospital because you didn't follow the CURRENT standard of care.
Personal malpractice insurance also ensures you representation before a board of nursing hearing. For example - at least in Illinois - if ANYONE is willing to put down on paper that a nurse did something wrong - it is completely investigated to include a hearing! It can be very nerve-wracking not to mention the time it takes to get to the hearing date.
Another instance - say a neighbor asks about tylenol dosages for their child - you say follow the directions on the bottle but don't say that if there is any concern at all, to call their doctor. The mother gives the child tylenol, the child goes to bed and becomes critically ill because mother didn't call the doctor.
Unfortunately, all of these instances did happen - not to me (cross my fingers and toes), but you are leaving yourself wide open to big problems w/o personal malpractice insurance.
The least problem is a lawsuit from where you work!

I am thinking that you haven't read the whole thread, or you would see that these issues were discussed. I am still not understanding the statement "what you employer can do to you".

Thanks

Trauma Columnist · Aug 29, 2004

I'm talking about wrongful termination and reporting incidents to the BON. I did glance over this entire thread (and its a long one) because I'm interested in other's opinions about this topic. I apologize if I belabored a point.

mscsrjhm · Aug 29, 2004

I'm talking about wrongful termination and reporting incidents to the BON. I did glance over this entire thread (and its a long one) because I'm interested in other's opinions about this topic. I apologize if I belabored a point.

No problem. I didn't realize malpractice covered wrongful termination. That is new to me. Most policies I have seen do not cover employment issues. (Apparently, to keep raking in the $$$ they are starting to offer more services.)

Are you sure that wrongful termination is covered? As many states are still "right to work", wrongful termination is difficult for attorney's to get money from. Gotta be a really great case.

BON coverage is the only + that goes along with Liability Insurance. However, what are the odds?

mscsrjhm · Aug 29, 2004

[color=#c0c0c0]q

what to i do if the hospital has already asked about a settlement?

[color=#c0c0c0]a

contact us immediately. chances are if the hospital seeks a settlement, it's because they know their mistake could cost them money if taken to trial. without a lawyer, you have no idea what your case is worth and you could be settling for far less than you deserve.

http://www.florida-nursing-home-abuse.com/faq.htm

please think about this: example: you are injured in an auto accident.. the guilty person's insurance offers you $20,000--you hire an attorney and eventually end up with $50,000....

your attorney is only entitled to what he earned....$30,000!!!! (most people don't know this, and the attorney's sure don't tell them!!)

same goes for medical malpractice or neglegence.

if the attorney is so concerned about you.... wouldn't he tell you tell you to get an offer??? no...

does this make you look at the above q and a different??? i hope so.

hope it makes you look at attorneys and insurance different.

avonwalk · Aug 30, 2004

Are there any temporary malpractice insurance companies offering weekend coverage? I want to participate in a fundraising Walk, but am unsure of how to obtain temp. coverage.

thanks.

Sigh.
Is $100 (more or less) a good deal if it's not needed?
If nurses "feel better" having malpractice insurance, buy it. But realize it's simply a form of therapy.
Remind yourself: nurses just don't get sued very often. Oh, it happens on a very, very rare basis, but the reason it's "so reasonable" (as we are reminded all the time) is simply because it doesn't happen. Statistically speaking, it's not going to happen to you. Ever. Even if you are unfortunate enough to have bought malpractice insurance.
Attorneys get paid (in almost every such case) a percentage (usually 35-40%) of the final settlement. No attorney in her right mind is going to come after a nurse who doesn't have malpractice insurance because it simply isn't worth it. Why bother? The attorney isn't doing this as a cause: she's hoping to make some money from it.
Such trials often require months or tedious, expensive preparation. Then there's the trial itself, complete with the attorney having to shell out money for expert witnesses, and other such fees. Don't make yourself inviting to such attorneys. Malpractice insurance is an open invitation.
As for the fear of garnishing of future wages, let's put this in perspective. Let's say you have a minimal net worth. You're telling me an attorney is going to salivate at the prospect of a judge ordering a garnishment of -- say -- $100 a week -- against your wages for the rest of your life to pay off the -- let's pick a number: $500,000? -- settlement we're hypothetically talking about? What are the chances you as a nurse will sit still for this? What are the odds you will simply declare bankruptcy, and go on with your life? The attorney is no fool. There are other fish to fry.
Jim Huffman, RN

allnurses Guide · Sep 24, 2004

This is part of a piece of research for a graduate level class I am taking. Much of it is talking to advanced practice nurses (CNS=clinical nurse specialist), but applies to RNs. I heavily make use of chapter 9 of L. Joel's book Advance Practice Nursing, p.171, chapter written by Infante and Muran:

In general, if a CNS is employed, rather than independent practice, any harm to the patient by her is considered to be covered by her employer, under the respondeat superior, or "let the master respond", because the employer decides what an employee does (job description), and the manner of doing it. (p.182) If a CNS is sued, it may be individually, or as part of her organization. Infante and Muran, the authors of chapter 9, strongly recommend personal malpractice policies, and give guidelines for researching and choosing good coverage.

1)find a carrier that has experts in your specialty

2)know what exactly is covered by your policy, and review it periodically

3)know how the carrier handles legal defense expenses

a)claims from adverse event, if hospital has a lawyer, the policy holder my or may not choose to pay an independent lawyer for you

b)if APN is found negligent or the case is settled

c)if the fees are part of the damages, or in addition to the coverage of each incident

4)understand the difference between incident and aggregate coverage: occurrence is each event, aggregate is the total number of events over a certain period of years. $1 million occurance/$6 million aggregate, means up to $1 mill. per event, total of 6 events

5)Occurrence vs. claims made: occurrence is whatever policy you had at the time of the event, claims made means the incident must have happened and been filed during the policy life. (pp. 185-186)

According to Infante and Muran, NPs and CNSs usually have occurrence, the older type of insurance, while CNMs and CRNAs have claims made type.

According to the National Practioner Data Base (federal agency, all malpractice payments are reportable by law to them), less than 2% of all payments were to nurses as opposed to physicians, of that number, 2/3 was at the RN level, the other 1/3 to advanced practice nurses. Time span: 9-90 to 12-2000. Insurance is to cover the off chance of being sued, if suit were a certainty, no insurer would take you on, (or at least not for a very high premium).

I have car insurance, health insurance, long term diasability insurance, life insurance, house insurance, and don't want to have to use any of them, so I do my best not to need them. Why wouldn't I have work insurance too? Malpractice suits are a reality.

mscsrjhm · Sep 25, 2004

This is part of a piece of research for a graduate level class I am taking. Much of it is talking to advanced practice nurses (CNS=clinical nurse specialist), but applies to RNs. I heavily make use of chapter 9 of L. Joel's book Advance Practice Nursing, p.171, chapter written by Infante and Muran:
In general, if a CNS is employed, rather than independent practice, any harm to the patient by her is considered to be covered by her employer, under the respondeat superior, or "let the master respond", because the employer decides what an employee does (job description), and the manner of doing it. (p.182) If a CNS is sued, it may be individually, or as part of her organization. Infante and Muran, the authors of chapter 9, strongly recommend personal malpractice policies, and give guidelines for researching and choosing good coverage.
1) find a carrier that has experts in your specialty
2) know what exactly is covered by your policy, and review it periodically
3) know how the carrier handles legal defense expenses
a) claims from adverse event, if hospital has a lawyer, the policy holder my or may not choose to pay an independent lawyer for you
b) if APN is found negligent or the case is settled
c) if the fees are part of the damages, or in addition to the coverage of each incident
4) understand the difference between incident and aggregate coverage: occurrence is each event, aggregate is the total number of events over a certain period of years. $1 million occurance/$6 million aggregate, means up to $1 mill. per event, total of 6 events
5) Occurrence vs. claims made: occurrence is whatever policy you had at the time of the event, claims made means the incident must have happened and been filed during the policy life. (pp. 185-186)
According to Infante and Muran, NPs and CNSs usually have occurrence, the older type of insurance, while CNMs and CRNAs have claims made type.
According to the National Practioner Data Base (federal agency, all malpractice payments are reportable by law to them), less than 2% of all payments were to nurses as opposed to physicians, of that number, 2/3 was at the RN level, the other 1/3 to advanced practice nurses. Time span: 9-90 to 12-2000. Insurance is to cover the off chance of being sued, if suit were a certainty, no insurer would take you on, (or at least not for a very high premium).
I have car insurance, health insurance, long term diasability insurance, life insurance, house insurance, and don't want to have to use any of them, so I do my best not to need them. Why wouldn't I have work insurance too? Malpractice suits are a reality.

hehehe..

I wonder if "Infante and Muran, the authors of chapter 9" ever spoke to real attorneys in the real world.

hehehe.

seriously, I am so very sorry to laugh, but I have sent this on to a couple of attorney friends, and can't wait to hear their response..

this is the way insurance companies make money. Feed the beast.

sorry...