I've seen a number of posts regarding this topic, yet I don't fully follow the reasons as to why pay is such an issue in this field.
I've been reading up on information here for nursing, as well as a few other forums for alternative careers (Paramedic mainly). It seems that nurses are by far the most upset about their pay -- yet it seems that in most areas, the pay is better than average and superior to that of riskier jobs, such as the police force, fire dept. and EMS positions. Don't get me wrong, I know any healthcare profession has its health risks -- it just seems that the street is generally a bit more dangerous than a hospital environment. (correct me if im wrong).
I know that the distribution of wealth is pathetic at best; with professional sports players making millions while you wonderful people dedicate your lives to something that truly matters. You should be the one's making millions in my opinion; but, that aside, is the pay really not enough?
What specifically makes you feel that your pay is not enough? How is it different from, say, a paramedic? If it is really bad, then why do you stay?
Also, I know most people here are nurses, but do any of you know why Paramedics (the ones that have a 4 year Bachelors degree) make typically around $19 an hour in most places? It seems almost unreasonably low.
i am satisfied with my pay, and i believe i am fairly compensated for having a 4 year degree and the level of stress involved. my coworkers also seem to rarely complain about pay. i am single and working in one of the higher paying markets, so i'm sure that skews my view. i'm not sure i'd feel the same were i working for $20/h or less like in some parts of the US. money seems to only become an issue if i make it one - in nyc where a 750 sq foot 1-bedroom apt on the UES costs close to three quarters of a million dollars, it's hard not to compare what i have to what other people have. i do believe other service professions like teachers and policemen are underpaid because maybe they have been less vociferous than nurses?
i'd also like to add that nurses don't really have income growth unless they change jobs. there are no bonuses or many perks from 'clients'. the starting salary is high, but after that we only get yearly raises of 3-5% which only barely keeps up with inflation. i might feel differently in a few years when i'm making the same as i am now while business friends get promoted and pay hikes.
management is playing the divide and conquer strategy. in a union hospital you usually know the starting pay and steps based on years of experience and differentials...."
yup! and you can imagine how odd this is to me after being in the military where you can look at a person's uniform and know how much they're making. i work in a non-union hospital in the most non-union state...sc.
get this...another hospital in the state recently raised new nurse wages to a level above nurses with experience! so you had new grads being trained by nurses that made less! crazy, huh?
Specializes in Respiratory, Hospice, Med-Surg, MICU,.
Interesting thread, although I don't understand why you as an EMT is questioning the nuances of nursing as a job along with pay issues and trying to "understand" that which you cannot know, unless of course you became a nurse.
I was married to a firefighter. I Guarantee my job has FAAAAR more stress than his Ever did on a daily basis and was more "dangerous" (again, on the daily basis) from the unexpected actions of individuals than my husband encountered on a daily basis. (The 90/10 factor mentioned) While he may have occasionally (rarely) was IN a blaze (Dangerous to me!)-he Always had backup, to include the services of law enforcement and EMS. While my ex husband was at work, they played poker, read Media (had a huge closet full of it from the floor to the ceiling ....yes this is for real) after 1700. They watched tv, played pool, had visitors, cooked/ate, slept.......... We nurses, we are lucky to have the chance to pee-let alone have the opportunity for substantial nourishment. Fire and EMS 24 hr shift workers are paid for all the time, whether on their feet doing "fire related/ems related duties" or not. You do not say whether you are a 24 hr worker or not.
I had the crap beat out of me on a home health case, was strangled, thrown, etc etc. I was left alone in that house with that lunatic while the firetrucks were out front and the first squad car came up. Not until the second squad care came up minutes later did anyone enter.......not a SOUL! I know it was at least 5 minutes from the time the last vehicle arrived until someone came into where I and the vent dependent child I cared for was at, and me not knowing where this lunatic was. During the assault, I truly believed I was going to die.
Now, being "alone" is our daily encounter. Even if we weren't alone, we lack all the other training and resources law enforcement and ems have. Danger is in our field and it is the fool who does not recognize it, be it home health (potentially very dangerous), to the ER, the floors and lastly doctors offices (safer in the scheme of things).
I and my co-workers deserve dangerous duty pay!!! We are ALONE in cubicles, rooms or buildings with people who snap and WE are expected to de-escalate any and ALL situations without the proper physical training, ie self defense. We have been hit, bit, kicked, spit on, groped, had our hair pulled and we do not have mace, night sticks, handcuffs or guns to protect ourselves and others. We do NOT have law enforcement to call for "backup". We do not have the option of arresting and sending someone to jail for assaulting us. IF we are fortunate enough to work where we have a security guard or two, they are unarmed as well. Now, if we would call 911 (lol..can you imagine US calling 911!) ......law enforcement would not come to our aid until THEY had backup first. Ummm........what is it I'm missing here in your view that we have more cushy safety to dwell and work in???
We Must know enough to catch doctors wrong orders and to NOT carry them out to protect our patients and our own butts. So, in effect, we must know as much as doctors (lame isn't it) b/c at the end of the day, if an error is made we will be the scape goat and our careers will be over. I've Never firgured this one out....we must circumvent doctor and pharmacy errors as well as our own. Could you so this, and if you put a monetary value on it, what might it be? Even if you spent 4 years in college? Not minimizing your career, just pointing out you and us are as apples and oranges.
We must be able to catch disease processes in progress, to include the undiagnosed ones; notify doctors and take appropriate intervening actions in a timely fashion to circumvent a crisis. IF the crisis is upon us, we must take appropriate actions to put that fire out as well ALL while we manage each of our other patients, ALL their needs, meds, treatments, assessments and basic daily cares, labs, pt, rt, ot, speech, radiology, surgery, doctors/offices, admissions, dismissals, managing ancillary staff, dealing with each patients families/friends, doctors and all the departments during the same time span.
Hopefully, when we leave after our work is done (not usually "on time")- our license will leave with us, intact without any complaints or actions taken against it.
While doing this, we are available to "help" our co-workers with the "muscle" needed for lifting, turning, transfering our budgeoning patient load as most of us remain "women" who are not muscularly the "same" as our male counterparts. The male counterparts on the otherhand bear the brunt of being sought out repeatedly by their female counterparts b/c they are built muscularly at an advantage for the above mentioned requirements of physical strength, as unlike EMS-we deal with our patients "ALONE!" for the most part. We do NOT work in the buddy system.
We Never sit around waiting for a call and a good ol "barn burner", etc b/c we are bored! LOL, wow, what we wouldn't give for a "boring shift"!
What was the question??? Oh yes, you did have one good point. IF we don't like our pay/work load etc then why do we stay. Like you, working for 19.00 an hour..........
When I graduated as an LPN in 1992, my starting rate of pay was $6.43 per hour. As you can imagine, I wasn't happy with that. I have worked in various settings ovedr the years. Highest rate of pay was $19.35 per hour in a nursing home. (They have to pay that because LTC is depressing and dead-end). I hated it so much that I came back to my old job that I dearly loved and took a massive pay cut so I could go to work and not be stressed out. In any case, I believe that nurses are generally underpaid.
A professor once said that nursing has one of the highest injury rates of all careers due to back injuries.
I don't have a citation to back it up but thought I would share.
Comparing to police officers and paramedics is a little too narrow in my opinion; I think the pay for care-oriented jobs is generally low. Many people with more business-oriented degrees make significantly more. I just would rather contribute directly to the wellbeing of others; nursing makes that easier.
I work in a acute psychiatric hospital and trust me the danger is there. Recently a coworker of mine had to have a shut placed due to a massive head injury from a patient. Assaults like this are fairly rare but at least 2-3 per month that require medical treatment(ie concussions, broken arms, noses). The really crappy part is that we are not allowed to defend ourselves. One hit back or even a bad take down and we are sued or fired for patient abuse, and believe me when I tell you all of our patients are medicated and we are aware of the potential for violence from them. Yet our hospital as a whole will not support you in pressing charges against the patients for assault, and honestly it wouldn't do much good. They would just be sent to the forensic unit anyway.
As for the pay issue.
Most of the complaining comes from when we see how much the hospitals really make off there patients (not mine of course, it's a state run facility) and yet the pay rate is just high enough to be competitive with other places. When we see that we wonder why we are always short staffed, why the bosses can't seem to get enough people to apply, and we know that if they just bumped up the pay a couple of bucks an hour and took a bit less than the couple hundred million in proffet that they make every year our jobs would be allot easier and our ability to provide patient care would be that much improved. It's not really that it's not enough money, it just that if the hospitals weren't SOOO cheap we would have a much better working environment. So instead of having a good working environment we expect to be payed better.
Also, I know most people here are nurses, but do any of you know why Paramedics (the ones that have a 4 year Bachelors degree) make typically around $19 an hour in most places? It seems almost unreasonably low.
My husband was considering the EMT program at the community college here. When he went to speak to the advisor, they suggested he consider nursing instead. She said many people who become EMTs here end up getting burned out. They aren't paid enough because there are only 2 companies in town (used to be only 1), so there isn't enough competition to drive the pay up. Apparently, they end up back at the community college in just a few years to get their ADN.
To those who answered with sincerity, thank you. I've gone through the posts and placed a thank you where appreciated. To those who claim intellectual superiority -- please do not assume so much -- I'm a college student and a number of us are in engineering. A few of my friends and I are new to this forum and are exploring the different aspects of healthcare. You can't blame us for our curiosity regarding the moderately paid field when every other post appears to be a gripe or vent. If I am a troll, then perception for you is obviously reality. I simply stated a curious question with an arbitrary understanding of the field. I'm no expert, I'm just curious and trying to learn.
If you want a lesson in logic, consider taking some critical thinking classes (i.e. calculus).
....yes this is for real) after 1700. They watched tv, played pool, had visitors, cooked/ate, slept.......... We nurses, we are lucky to have the chance to pee-let alone have the opportunity for substantial nourishment. Fire and EMS 24 hr shift workers are paid for all the time, whether on their feet doing "fire related/ems related duties" or not. You do not say whether you are a 24 hr worker or not.
mariesmist
22 Posts
i am satisfied with my pay, and i believe i am fairly compensated for having a 4 year degree and the level of stress involved. my coworkers also seem to rarely complain about pay. i am single and working in one of the higher paying markets, so i'm sure that skews my view. i'm not sure i'd feel the same were i working for $20/h or less like in some parts of the US. money seems to only become an issue if i make it one - in nyc where a 750 sq foot 1-bedroom apt on the UES costs close to three quarters of a million dollars, it's hard not to compare what i have to what other people have. i do believe other service professions like teachers and policemen are underpaid because maybe they have been less vociferous than nurses?