Past indiscretions

sandman1914 · Nov 7, 2005

I would contact a health care recruiter for the branch of service you are interested in. The recruiter should know how to address your concerns and let you know which activities in your past could hinder you from entering the service. I am quite sure that there are service members on active duty that did not enter the military with the cleanest background. Give it a try, the worst answer you could get would be "No".

stevenking, BSN, RN · Nov 7, 2005

I'm a 35 year old BSN. Before I got into Nursing I considered a military career but was discouraged to discover that past indiscretions would prevent me from becoming an officer or maybe even from enlisting. You see, my first time around in college (before BSN) I partook in a little too much partying. This included much drinking and some marijuana smoking. After college, I quit partying completely and have not had a drink, or anything else in over 10 years.
Here is the problem. -I am under the impression that past drug (marijuana) usage can prevent a candidate from being granted a security clearance, which is required for officers. Also, there is no use in lying about it; besides the fact that you should be honest in the application process a thorough background check will discover it anyway.
Has anyone had any experience with this. Would this prevent me from becoming a military nurse?

Failure to disclose information is usually what keeps you from getting anywhere in the military.

Darth Nightingale · Nov 8, 2005

I'm a 35 year old BSN. Before I got into Nursing I considered a military career but was discouraged to discover that past indiscretions would prevent me from becoming an officer or maybe even from enlisting. You see, my first time around in college (before BSN) I partook in a little too much partying. This included much drinking and some marijuana smoking. After college, I quit partying completely and have not had a drink, or anything else in over 10 years.
Here is the problem. -I am under the impression that past drug (marijuana) usage can prevent a candidate from being granted a security clearance, which is required for officers. Also, there is no use in lying about it; besides the fact that you should be honest in the application process a thorough background check will discover it anyway.
Has anyone had any experience with this. Would this prevent me from becoming a military nurse?

Lie. Especially if you can not or would not get caught. Consider the bigger picture. The country needs assets and you know whether or not you are an asset.

ANC_Maj · Nov 9, 2005

Lie. Especially if you can not or would not get caught. Consider the bigger picture. The country needs assets and you know whether or not you are an asset.

Lying is not the best advice. There is this little tenet called "integrity" that is essential as a military officer. What does it say about you as an individual if you violate that one right out of the gate?

Army Values = LeaDeRSHIP (Loyalty, Duty, Respect, Selfless Service, Honor, Integrity, Personal Courage). All the services have something similar. Learn them, live them, love them.

ANC_Maj

JakeT · Nov 9, 2005

Although I am not a recruiter, I can tell your from personnal experience that preservice us of marijuana is not disqualfying. There are some limitations involved although. For example I believe that if you used marijuana less than 15 times, the US Air Force is willing to look at a waiver for this youthful indiscretion. I am not sure of the US Navy or US Army standards are, but if you really want to find out, the best advice as mentioned above is to go see a Health Care Recruiter for whatever branch of service you are interested in. Although the military has a need for RN's, they are willing to look at some indiscretions for waivers, but they are still maintaining standards.

As far as lying about your past use, I would highly recommend that you just be honest up front, the worst case scenario is that they say sorry, but thanks for looking into serving your country. As oppose to lying and getting caught down the road, worst case scenario discharge less than honorable for fraudulent commission.

Depending on the security clearance you need, depends on how far and deep they look into your past. When I was enlisted, they went to my hometown talked with family, friends, neighbors etc, if they do this with you and an old college buddy goes.." Yea, we smoked a few times"... guess what.... "Busted"

Balder_LPN, LPN · Nov 29, 2005

There is this little tenet called "integrity" that is essential as a military officer. ANC_Maj

I can tell you from first hand experience: Integrity is NOT essential to being a military officer. While active and reserve I have dealt with too many officers whose "integity" flies out the window at the drop of the hat, they tend to worry about carrer first, and if thier integrity is compromised, oh well, better than admitting to any mistake of judgement, blame the enlisted and let them take the heat.

The whole officer enlisted thing is simply left over from the medieval era. When peasents (Enlisted) went to war under the direction of Nobles (officers). our peasent/noble system is now replaced by an educated/uneducated system, ie college is the primary/unremovable requirement to become an officer (as opposed to noble birth) and not leadership ability or military knowledge, the two things that are actually most important to success on the battlefield.

It is time for this system to die, the same as wearing a flower necklace to ward off bubonic plaque. All officers should be prior enlisted first! there should be no way around this, no matter your education level, you simply cant have the knowledge and experience to lead men at your most effective level without being elisted first.

Not saying that integrity doesnt help make you a better officer (it does) or that most dont have it (most, at least >50%, do) but many, succesfull, officers dont have it, never will. PM me and I will send you a list of first hand examples, and Names to go with it.

TeleRN44 · Dec 28, 2005

Okay, regardless of its importance in the context of being an officer in the military...integrity is a lot like self respect. You either have it or you don't and once it's lost, it's difficult to regain.

We could probably all provide examples of folks(civilian, officer, enlisted) who have breached their integrity for one reason or another, but what is the point? Naming names? Oh, puleeeeze... :lol2:

Rather than look at it from the officer vs. the enlisted standpoint, try this approach instead. As a nurse, you want to be sure that your integrity is never called into question, right? Stick with that and you can't go wrong.

Honestly, you'd probably have more to worry about if you were still using the drug and hoping to passing the drug test. Be honest with the recruiter and see what happens. I wish you the best of luck. Let us know how it goes.

**RosesrReder, BSN, MSN, RN** · Dec 28, 2005

I'd go with honesty, it would me much worse to get prosecuted for lying.

Good luck

robred · Dec 29, 2005

Speaking as someone with 8 yrs active duty experience as a medic in the AF...be honest. If you lie/withhold information, I personally wouldn't want you to care for me if I were still an active duty enlisted person who counts on your integrity. Take the high road on this....be someone with high morals, good convictions. Be someone you can look in the mirror and be proud of. Do the right thing.

Corvette Guy · Dec 31, 2005

Originally Posted by ANC_Maj
There is this little tenet called "integrity" that is essential as a military officer. ANC_Maj
__________________
I can tell you from first hand experience: Integrity is NOT essential to being a military officer. While active and reserve I have dealt with too many officers whose "integity" flies out the window at the drop of the hat, they tend to worry about carrer first, and if thier integrity is compromised, oh well, better than admitting to any mistake of judgement, blame the enlisted and let them take the heat.
The whole officer enlisted thing is simply left over from the medieval era. When peasents (Enlisted) went to war under the direction of Nobles (officers). our peasent/noble system is now replaced by an educated/uneducated system, ie college is the primary/unremovable requirement to become an officer (as opposed to noble birth) and not leadership ability or military knowledge, the two things that are actually most important to success on the battlefield.
It is time for this system to die, the same as wearing a flower necklace to ward off bubonic plaque. All officers should be prior enlisted first! there should be no way around this, no matter your education level, you simply cant have the knowledge and experience to lead men at your most effective level without being elisted first.
Not saying that integrity doesnt help make you a better officer (it does) or that most dont have it (most, at least >50%, do) but many, succesfull, officers dont have it, never will. PM me and I will send you a list of first hand examples, and Names to go with it.

Personal integrity is the foundation on which the standing of an officer rest, and it is simple, basic, personal honesty. An officer with personal integrity possesses the self-discipline to see clearly the honorable course and to follow it... in all walks of life. The honorable course is made based on objective and impartial decisions, free from favoritism, or bias, or desire for personal gain. Such a person of integrity proceeds in good conscience, in full retention of self-respect.

Balder, I regret to find you experienced officers lacking integrity. Every Soldier has a right to expect an officer to be proficient in the military arts of his/her prospective Branch, whether that be Combat Arms, Combat Support, or in the Combat Service Support Branches. Job proficiency includes performance integrity, as well as personal integrity. The professional competence of an officer must be demonstrated in daily contacts with seniors and subordinates in the same like and reasons that an officer's integrity must be held under continual observation. Your speak of the difference between today's officer & enlisted Soldier I must disagree.

I am an officer in the USAR Nurse Corps [commissioned 1LT, 2003]. I'm also prior service active duty enlisted USMC, 1980-1988. I have the upmost appreciation for SNCOs, the backbone of all military branches. I've worked with many a squared away junior enlisted Soldiers, including Combat Medics & 91WM6s, as well as Marines. True, most officers are better educated than most enlisted Soldiers, but that's d/t the Army believes certain levels of education are essential for developing the character and perspective required for the proper exercise of the judgement and moral courage the Army expects of its officers. However, the significant difference between the enlisted Soldier & officers is the extremely special moral expectation and authority, officers' personal & professional conduct must remain above reproach. Do you know the difference between the enlisted oath & officer's oath of military service?

Enlisted Oath

I do solemnly affirm that i will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign & domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.

Officer's Oath

I having been appointed in the United States Army, do solemnly affirm that i will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign & domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion, and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office upon which I am about to enter. So help me God.

Notice the key difference in the oaths with the omission of the promise to obey in the officers oath, which defines the differences between Army officers & enlisted Soldiers. Officers fall under the same UCMJ requirement to obey as do other Soldiers. However, by oath, officers are not morally bound to the promise to obey. Officers are trusted by enlisted Soldiers, through their congressional representatives who approve commissons, with the enormous moral responsibility of knowing when to not obey those instructions, regulations, or orders that are not in the best interest of the Army at the moment.

Please, re-evaluate your thoughts on officers in regard to integrity, which the majority uphold to the highest standard. The American public [including enlisted Soldiers] could not entrust its security to officers about whose integrity there is the slightest doubt. Plus, many, many enlisted Soldiers are highly educated, so don't limit your primary definition of the difference between enlisted Soldiers & officers as being education.

:cheers: ... like the commercial says, drink in moderation

1LT Barrett, AN USAR

Reference;

Bonn, K. E. (49th Ed.). (1977). Army officer's guide. Mechanicburg, PA; Stackpole Books.

*I highly encourage all Army officers to include a copy of the Army Officer's Guide in their home library.

Trauma Columnist · Dec 31, 2005

I am former USN enlisted (1978-1980) and there is no reason to lie. Integrity is not just a military tenet - its universal in every walk of life. If you can't believe a person's word, what else is there?