Pa?

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What exactly is a PA?

Specializes in ER, OR, Cardiac ICU.

Your are kidding, right? Anthrax? Why not throw in Ebola or the Hantavirus...

And, again, most of the mid-level providers I have the opportunity to work with could make a differential diagnosis between a cold and CHF.

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I too think people often underestimate the value of PA's and NP's. I think a major part of being a good PA or an NP, is to know when things are heading out of your scope of practice. And since PA's cannot practice independently, there will always be an MD somewhere, at least on call, they can be reached if need be. With all of their knowledge and expertise, both NP's and PA's are much more capable than just dealing with simple ailements like colds.

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Specializes in Looking for a career in NICU.

My post didn't say anything about NP's being devalued.

Every profession in healthcare has a specific purpose. I don't think stating that they should not be used as a sub for a doctor and are overused in a hospital setting as such. I do not believe that an NP or a PA are identical to any MD in expertise.

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Specializes in Looking for a career in NICU.
I too think people often underestimate the value of PA's and NP's. I think a major part of being a good PA or an NP, is to know when things are heading out of your scope of practice. And since PA's cannot practice independently, there will always be an MD somewhere, at least on call, they can be reached if need be. With all of their knowledge and expertise, both NP's and PA's are much more capable than just dealing with simple ailements like colds.

Well, they my not practice independently on paper, but they do practice independently in reality all too often, and that is part of the problem.

If you review my posts, I made mention on another thread that I had to go to the emergency department to have my hand sewed up...now granted, an RN is fully capable of doing such a thing (my mom used to sew me up for minor stuff when I was a kid rather than take me to the doctor), but a PA, that was a male, sewed me up, but a female ED, is who billed me at a full doctor rate...and I never saw her. Why should she get paid the same for never walking into the room? If my insurance pays for a doctor, then a doctor is who I want to see. It has nothing to do with competency.

I just cannot believe that anyone can make an argument that BSN's that go to school for 2 to 3 years for an NP, functions, 100% identically on every level, to a person who gets a BS, nd then an MD, and completes a residency.

It just, not the same. Again, nothing do with with the value of the profession individually...but when you compare the two, not the same.

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Specializes in School Nursing.

:lol2: :lol2: :lol2: :lol2: :lol2: :lol2: :lol2: :lol2: He's your Daddy, silly !

**(sorry...couldn't resist !)**:idea:

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"I just cannot believe that anyone can make an argument that BSN's that go to school for 2 to 3 years for an NP, functions, 100% identically on every level, to a person who gets a BS, nd then an MD, and completes a residency"

Trust me. no ones (at least i hope not) arguing with that one. And no, an ED billing for the work a mid level practitioner does... ridiculous. Im just saying they are often underestimated, and they often don't recieve the credit they deserve. Theres no way anyone could persuade me that they could funtion identically to an MD that had all of the extra schooling, and experience with the challenging cases. I was just trying to make the point that they are definetly capable for doing more than seeing "colds and cuts" all day.

but yes, BSNtobe2009, you made some very good points

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Well, they my not practice independently on paper, but they do practice independently in reality all too often, and that is part of the problem.

If you review my posts, I made mention on another thread that I had to go to the emergency department to have my hand sewed up...now granted, an RN is fully capable of doing such a thing (my mom used to sew me up for minor stuff when I was a kid rather than take me to the doctor), but a PA, that was a male, sewed me up, but a female ED, is who billed me at a full doctor rate...and I never saw her. Why should she get paid the same for never walking into the room? If my insurance pays for a doctor, then a doctor is who I want to see. It has nothing to do with competency.

I just cannot believe that anyone can make an argument that BSN's that go to school for 2 to 3 years for an NP, functions, 100% identically on every level, to a person who gets a BS, nd then an MD, and completes a residency.

It just, not the same. Again, nothing do with with the value of the profession individually...but when you compare the two, not the same.

I don't know where you work...but the PAs I work with have many years of suturing which is not the most difficult thing in the world (and since when is a RN qualified to suture?). The time he spent with you freed up the doctor trying to see those "difficult" pts. Without midlevels EDs would be that more inmpacted with sniffles/suturing/ cough. You would have spent prob another 30 min in the waiting room. Its not cost effective for EDs that already lose money to hire more MDs so they can suture and splint (atleast 25% of billed is not collected).

And I don't think anyone would ever say that NP/PA are equal to MDs in there specialties.

As for the I pay to see a doctor i should see a doctor..great call your PCP and make an appointment.

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Specializes in ER, critical care.

[quote name=BSNtobe2009

]Well, they my not practice independently on paper, but they do practice independently in reality all too often, and that is part of the problem.

If you review my posts, I made mention on another thread that I had to go to the emergency department to have my hand sewed up...now granted, an RN is fully capable of doing such a thing (my mom used to sew me up for minor stuff when I was a kid rather than take me to the doctor), but a PA, that was a male, sewed me up, but a female ED, is who billed me at a full doctor rate...and I never saw her. Why should she get paid the same for never walking into the room? If my insurance pays for a doctor, then a doctor is who I want to see. It has nothing to do with competency.

I just cannot believe that anyone can make an argument that BSN's that go to school for 2 to 3 years for an NP, functions, 100% identically on every level, to a person who gets a BS, nd then an MD, and completes a residency.

It just, not the same. Again, nothing do with with the value of the profession individually...but when you compare the two, not the same.

Re post on this after you have finished school and then worked in an ED that utilizes NPs or PAs. Right now, I am willing to give you the benefit of the doubt in light of your lack of experience.

I will, however, pose this situation to you as a hypothetical something to think about..... Suppose you bring your (mom, dad, grandma, ect.) to that same ED having chest pain and looking pale and diaphoretic. Now imagine that the ER doc is in with a trauma arrest... he/she is going to be awhile. Your relative's EKG is shown to the NP/PA who recognizes an MI is in progress. Should your relative just continue on with their MI without intervention until the ER doc is finished? or should the NP/PA come in and do what we are trained to do?

In most ERs, (and I realize there are exceptions in critical access hospitals), the NP/PA does do a brief consult with the physician on duty in such a situation. But they donn't delay lifesaving care of the patient to get it done. We have to be able to pick up and run with whatever might come in the door and know enough to know when we can't do it ourselves.

Encourage your insurance carrier to enpanel NPs and PAs.

Edited for spelling errors (I just couldn't let them go.)

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Specializes in Acute Care Psych, DNP Student.
Well, they my not practice independently on paper, but they do practice independently in reality all too often, and that is part of the problem.

If you review my posts, I made mention on another thread that I had to go to the emergency department to have my hand sewed up...now granted, an RN is fully capable of doing such a thing (my mom used to sew me up for minor stuff when I was a kid rather than take me to the doctor), but a PA, that was a male, sewed me up, but a female ED, is who billed me at a full doctor rate...and I never saw her. Why should she get paid the same for never walking into the room? If my insurance pays for a doctor, then a doctor is who I want to see. It has nothing to do with competency.

I just cannot believe that anyone can make an argument that BSN's that go to school for 2 to 3 years for an NP, functions, 100% identically on every level, to a person who gets a BS, nd then an MD, and completes a residency.

It just, not the same. Again, nothing do with with the value of the profession individually...but when you compare the two, not the same.

Bold emphasis above is mine.

What is the relevance of each professionals' gender?

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