Pa hospital system won't hire smokers

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Um, actually, no. Self-determination is a right. Smoking is a choice. There is a fundamental difference between rights and personal living choices. Rights are intrinsic to the human condition, cannot be abrogated, are neither grantable nor revocable by authority but can only be protected or infringed.

Smoking, drinking, choice of career - based on self-determination or in outside factors.

Life, liberty, the pursuit (meaning vocation) of happiness, self-determination - intrinsic, unalterable - even inalienable.

See the difference?

Yes, I see the difference. You're defining rights as things others can't take away from you. The things you get to keep even when you're oppressed/enslaved.

But then, life and liberty are only rights because the law grants them. They can just as easily be taken away from you as can your right to smoke. Perhaps not in this country. But I don't feel rights are granted by the law. I feel choices and behaviors are as much rights as anything else. They're all inherently intrinsic. Of course, the law also dictates consequences for certain behaviors, but you still have the right to indulge them so long as you accept the results.

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Specializes in Pediatric Critical Care, Cardiac, EMS.
Yes, I see the difference. You're defining rights as things others can't take away from you. The things you get to keep even when you're oppressed/enslaved.

But then, life and liberty are only rights because the law grants them. They can just as easily be taken away from you as can your right to smoke. Perhaps not in this country. But I don't feel rights are granted by the law. I feel choices and behaviors are as much rights as anything else. They're all inherently intrinsic. Of course, the law also dictates consequences for certain behaviors, but you still have the right to indulge them so long as you accept the results.

That wasn't what I meant, or even what I said. But I shall respectfully agree to disagree with you here, and leave it at that.

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I shall respectfully agree to disagree with you here, and leave it at that.

I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, if I understood what you were saying correctly. Why don't you go ahead and define "rights" and make it clear.

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Specializes in Emergency Medicine.

A few thoughts:

1) Someone mentioned it before, but what about nicotine patches? or Nicorette gum? In theory, a urine screen for nicotine would be unacceptable as proof someone was a smoker.

2) Unlike some other things that have been mentioned, smoking is legal, and, for the most part, legal everywhere: one can smoke while driving, among other things. A long as it's legal, what one does on one's own time is nobody's business

3) Although smokers are not a protected group, some would argue that other qualities that are protected are also a choice. I'm not debating on the merits of this, but the fact of it remains.

4) If the reason for refusing to hire the smokers lies in insurance costs, why not refuse to give them insurance rather than deny them a livelihood?

That being said, an at-will empoloyer means they can hire or not hire whomever they please.

(Disclaimer: I am not, nor have I even been a smoker.)

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not all patients are non-smokers, yes it is a choice but should it affect the way nurses/doctors/any healthcare provider treats the patient, employees should have equal rights and they don't have to smoke on the grounds but its their choice and if they give excellent care then I don't see the problem...the should look at accreditations and not addictions, people are way too judgemental and freedom should be implemented everywhere...smoking is bad for our health but equal right oppurtunity..if someone told me i couldn't smoke well they would have a headache after i got done with them....not trying to be a b but come on now really..and an alcoholic person needs help too alcoholism is a disease worse than smoking, cognition is effected; cigs don't do that...

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i so agree w you!!!!!!

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Are you kidding me? Really? What's next telling people who like to over eat or are obese that they can not work in healthcare?? I can see maybe not smoking while at work...but when someone gets home and is off the clock THAT IS THIER BUISSNESS AS TO WHAT THEY DO!!! It is a choice to smoke.....and for some people (for those of you who do smoke) know the risk that is involved with it and it is their CHOICE to take a risk. To get a drug test for smoking is insane!!! It is discrimination against people who smoke....yes i agree it is a horrible habit...but when i do when i go home is my buissness and if i want to smoke a pack of cigarettes i will.

I agree, it's a choice and ppl deserve to make a choice.....

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I agree, it's a choice and ppl deserve to make a choice.....

Shortest most hypocritical statement ever? It's a choice. People deserve to make a choice. I deserve to make the choice to smoke. But employers don't deserve the choice to decide what characteristics they want to hire.

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Shortest most hypocritical statement ever? It's a choice. People deserve to make a choice. I deserve to make the choice to smoke. But employers don't deserve the choice to decide what characteristics they want to hire.

Obviously you should look into equal oppurtunity healthcare employment...and I'm not be hypocritical I'm just right, not cocky just confident...and I guarantee you that if all healthcare in all this little world makes the decision for their future employees that they cannot smoke they're up the RIVER with no paddle because a lot of ppl that work in healthcare 70% of them i knew and worked with smoke and prolley more than that....and your being hypocritical I'm sure you've seen shorter messages...

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Specializes in ER.

Are there any hospitals that are testing for and refusing to hire persons that drink alcohol during their off time? I don't mean coming to work impaired, obviously. But if it's all about making an employee live a healthy lifestyle for our own good, shouldn't drinking be right there next to it?

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Specializes in M/S, MICU, CVICU, SICU, ER, Trauma, NICU.

Our hospital just went NON smoking. You have to walk about a mile to get to where it is no longer on-campus.

I don't smoke, so it doesn't affect me.

But you should see all of these smokers and their nicotine fits. Sheesh.

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Specializes in LTC,Hospice/palliative care,acute care.

It's all about cost -they sure don't have anyone's well-being in mind-other then the health of their bottom line. I have read that the cost of treating diabetes is going to triple in the next 20 or so years-maybe they'll start checking blood sugars,too.

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