PA CRNA potential student

[TreeKitty]

Good afternoon colleagues!

Like everyone else, CRNA has always been a dream of mine, but I'm wondering if I will be applying with a decent amount of experience and whether or not I should wait.

I have 1.5 years of experience in a very busy step down Neuro ICU/Stroke Unit at a level 1 hospital, and a 1.5 years exp in an outpatient Oncology infusion center on the same hospital campus. Since everyone always asks, I moved to outpatient oncology because I experienced the death of a very close friend of mine due to a rare form of cancer, and I felt so helpless not knowing anything about oncology. I have no regrets-- and my IV sticks are on point now-- but after completing my grief, I realized I didn't put myself in a good position to continue towards my goal.

I moved in order to accept a job in the Surgical ICU (with MICU and CTICU overflow) in order to move forward with my goal. My hospital back home was on a 10 month hiring freeze, and once they broke out of it, they were only accepting RN's that had ICU experience already. Each time the managers told me that I was a perfect fit, but they couldn't justify taking me to HR when they had so many people applying with tons of exp.

I started in the SICU at a level 1 hospital in May, and would like to apply to schools this coming February, hopefully to be admitted to the 2020 cohort and have 1.5 years of experience in ICU... My BSN GPA is 3.8, and I plan on taking the GRE to try and help my chances of being accepted. My preceptors have been absolutely wonderful and say I'm doing very well, and although I haven't mentioned my CRNA goals to anyone yet, it sounds like the unit, and my very kind manager, are open to the idea of their nurses moving on towards becoming NP's or NA's.

Many people keep asking me which I would like to do, and I usually just say that I'm feeling things out and haven't picked one yet. I would also like to shadow a CRNA, and will try to make connections (and gain a letter of recommendation) while I plan on approaching my manager.

My question is, would I even be a decent candidate at this point? How have you guys approached your managers? Has anyone else been accepted after just a year in ICU, but had experience in other units?

I love my current unit a ton, and it actually makes me feel guilty at the idea of approaching them this coming December/January to ask for letters of recommendation because everyone has been so wonderful to me in my current unit. I do not really want to wait on applying since I'm 30 and would like to complete school before I start having kids. That being said, life happens and come what may, but I will always be aiming for CRNA school.

[Future1Intub8er1995]

I dont see youre arguement on FL schools being less competitive... I see no facts to support your statement. Is a state with one school more competitive than a state with 20? truth is most people who apply are from a similar applicant pool with similar if not exact same "stats" the applicant pool is homogenous.

[ProgressiveThinking, MSN, CRNA]

I see you're applying to schools in FL. It was not my intent to strike a nerve. Let me ask you this...

I was having a little trouble deciphering your sentence, but I think you're suggesting that all applicants are "homogenous" in regards to their stats.

If all applicants were theoretically homogenous (meaning the same) both academically and clinically, would they have a better chance of getting accepted into

A) Kansas: two programs that accept 49 students combined annually

or

B) Florida: 9 programs that accept ~ 380 students annually.

If you had to choose between the two options, which option do you think you would have a better chance of getting accepted to or at least gives you more chances to get accepted(aka which option is less competitive?)

[Future1Intub8er1995]

Your argument about selectivity/competitiveness is full of holes. Overall SRNAs have the similar academic background, nursing experience and emotional intelligence. Just because a state has less schools doesn't make it better or #MoreCompetitive.

They just reject students who still meet minimum requirements but interview poorly. CRNA school is equally competitive (no more than any other graduate program) no matter what state you are in. (With the exception of a few top programs) Most accept average students with average experience and who are just generally average.GRE ~300, GPA ~3.4 ~1.25 years in MICU = average applicant.

[ProgressiveThinking, MSN, CRNA]

I think you missed the point. Nobody said anything about any one school being better than the other. This must have been your own inference. Also, we were discussing one's chances of being accepted into a school in a particular state, and not about the selectivity of individual schools.

Your statement about poor interviewees somewhat supports my argument. If said average student has more slots/chances to get accepted into a program in a geographical region, e.g. a state, that region is in general is less competitive by its very nature.

If SRNA #1 interviews poorly at 2 schools in Kansas, or their stats don't stack up well, they can still interview at school # 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, and 9 in Florida where they have more chances for their stats to stack up better with the current applicant pool. They have more chances to to perform better during their interview in order to get accepted.

With that being said, schools in states whose students don't have as many school options can be more selective which makes them more likely to select to the cream of the crop. Not a difficult concept to grasp. However, you ARE correct in that most Florida school accept very average applicants.

Keep in mind. This isn't just my opinion. It is the opinion of A LOT of CRNAs outside of Florida. It's the back up state of a lot of CA applicants. It was even discussed by my current PD in my interview when I stated i was accepted to a program in FL. Whether you agree with it or not, it's the perception of many.

Some FL schools are not good while some are really good, just like every other state. The only difference is FL as a whole has more schools.

[Future1Intub8er1995]

Your not-so-low-key-shade directed toward Florida programs is laughable. By your (faulty) logic Puerto Rico (an island territory of the US) which has only one program is one of the most competitive schools.

The honest truth is if you talk to any "PD" candidly is that applicants are terribly similar. I would be wary of any "PD" that speaks poorly of other programs/states in their interview (if they have to sell you on their institution by speaking poorly of others). GPA is an almost meaningless metric in the 21st century (particularly with the propagation of many pay to play online BSN) GRE scores for those with average intelligence are similar around 300. Nursing experience may vary but is usually minimal.

So. While you may feel really good about yourself and your program it's really not true to say that Florida has the market cornered on average students. Most CRNA students are average (academically speaking). Many other graduate programs have more rigorous entry requirements that many students (in and outside of FL) would likely not be able to meet.

If you live in CA, I have no clue why you'd go Florida for graduate school. Go where is affordable and where is the best fit for you, don't write off an entire state because of what "ALOT of CRNAs" say.

I'm afraid in this respect your thinking is not so progressive.

[ProgressiveThinking, MSN, CRNA]

Seems like I offended you. I apologize, as this wasn't my intention. My intention was to be as objective as possible.

Let's break some things down:

"Your not-so-low-key-shade directed toward Florida programs is laughable. By your (faulty) logic Puerto Rico (an island territory of the US) which has only one program is one of the most competitive schools."

Puerto Rico has THREE programs FYI. Puerto Rico is an obvious outlier that is comparable to Caribbean med schools. I can't speak for 2 of the schools, but I did meet an IAU university grad who couldn't pass boards, and spoke to other alumni who wouldn't recommend. I hear good things about the other 2 programs though. PR programs actually LOVE applicants from the states because they're required to take the NCE to practice here. They hope that this can boost their NCE pass rates and in turn attract more quality applicants. From what one alumni told me (I'm not sure if this is still the case), is that passing the NCE at the time was not required to practice there there which skewed their NCE pass rate stats. I would have to do more research though. I was actually considering applying there for the low cost of tuition and living, but was dissuaded.

There wasn't any "not so low key shade" thrown. Just an objective look at how having more schools to apply to in a given area can increase one's chances of getting accepted. I think that you're just falsely interpreting that "shade was thrown." I promise there wasn't. Your use of the word laughable demonstrates that I struck a nerve, which believe me was not my intent.

"The honest truth is if you talk to any "PD" candidly is that applicants are terribly similar. I would be wary of any "PD" that speaks poorly of other programs/states in their interview (if they have to sell you on their institution by speaking poorly of others)."

Have you personally had candid talks with every PD? I would be wary of PDs that spoke poorly of other programs as well. This particular PD just stated a fact. That fact was that Florida has a lot of schools. More schools = more opportunities to get accepted. This individual actually said the school that I was accepted to was a good school. You're inferring incorrect things.

"GPA is an almost meaningless metric in the 21st century (particularly with the propagation of many pay to play online BSN) GRE scores for those with average intelligence are similar around 300. Nursing experience may vary but is usually minimal.

GPA"

Are you really saying that GPA is a meaningless metric in predicting one's academic success? The word meaningless implies that somebody with a 1.5 would do as well as somebody with a 4.0 which we both know is false. I do agree with you that online RN-BSNs inflate undergraduate GPAs, but multiple studies show that GPA is a huge predictor in whether or not one is successful in graduate or medical school. The only data I could find regarding NA school is that there is a correlation with a 3.25 GPA and success in NA school. This has to be taken with a grain of salt though since other graduate nursing programs (which are not as rigorous as NA school) were included in the study.

https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/cf69/a8355f3b337ea3075830ae5a83b05b1fb371.pdf

This study also shows that GRE isn't that much of an indicator, but again it has to be taken with a grain of salt. Some studies in the past showed that GRE did predict success while others didn't. There isn't any clear cut evidence. Nevertheless, the blanket statement that GPA is a meaningless metric is clearly refuted in this study.

"So. While you may feel really good about yourself and your program it's really not true to say that Florida has the market cornered on average students. Most CRNA students are average (academically speaking). Many other graduate programs have more rigorous entry requirements that many students (in and outside of FL) would likely not be able to meet."

I don't feel good about myself or my program. I actually ended up attending a larger program that allowed me to stay in my home state. Furtunately, it's been a good experience so far. Here's a bit of advice: Once you get accepted into a program, don't tell any of the CRNAs that they are academically average. This will likely offend people who worked hard to become part of the profession. They will make your life a living hell.

College grade inflation: Does 'A' stand for 'average'?

Not sure where you where you're getting the 3.4 number from, but your provided number is clearly higher than the average undergraduate GPA.

"If you live in CA, I have no clue why you'd go Florida for graduate school. Go where is affordable and where is the best fit for you, don't write off an entire state because of what "ALOT of CRNAs" say."

My intention to go to Florida for graduate school was as a backup plan. Many others use FL schools for the same purpose. If you search enough usernames on here, you will see people get denied from other programs only to eventually be accepted into a FL school. Obviously I wouldn't move across the country if I didn't have to, but I wanted to be accepted so badly that I was willing to make the move. Applying there increased my chanced of getting accepted into an NA program.

Doesn't me almost attending a school in the state show that I didn't write the state off? You're inferring incorrect things again. Remember, if you're emotionally reactive and overly sensitive as a SRNA, you will get chewed up and spit out in a lot ORs.

"I'm afraid in this respect your thinking is not so progressive."

Oh, I see what you did there. That was very clever.

Anyways, I look forward to your response :)

[guest769224]

Your not-so-low-key-shade directed toward Florida programs is laughable. By your (faulty) logic Puerto Rico (an island territory of the US) which has only one program is one of the most competitive schools.

Puerto Rico has 3 anesthesia programs and they are all relatively easy to be accepted into. However they have difficulty with licensure once applying back in the traditional states, and usually lack any sort of training or exposure with nerve blocks.

[Future1Intub8er1995]

Not offended, I am just trying to help a brother out and bring you (and potential readers) back to reality. I realize that graduate school can foment a illusory attitude of superiority. TWU ranks closer to the bottom 25% of ranked CRNA programs according to the US News and World Report. Their admission requirements are no more rigorous than Florida programs, perhaps they are less selective because they admit more applicants.

I would agree that quite possibly, more elite universities in the northeast and Mid-Atlantic are more selective and have more rigorous admission requirements than programs in Florida or Texas. My primary point is those in glass houses shouldn't throw stones and such.

God Bless.

[ProgressiveThinking, MSN, CRNA]

"My primary point is those in glass houses shouldn't throw stones and such."

What stones? TWU is a large program. That's precisely why I mentioned that I ended up attending an larger program in order to demonstrate that I wasn't talking bad about any programs. No false sense of superiority here. Instead, I pointed out that FL has 9 schools which gives applicants more opportunities to get accepted in Florida vs other states that have less options. I've mentioned it in other threads and I'll mention it again: I know a Wolford grad who started his own group and is known to be a good provider. Going to a certain school may set one provider up a little better than the next, but believe that being a good provider depends on the individual, not the school.

All of my points have been objective, but you continue to fail to look at things objectively and cannot stay on track. All of the "shade" has been thrown by you and you keep bringing up other issues (calling CRNAs academically average, saying that GPA is meaningless, implying that "shade" was thrown when it wasn't, falsely assuming that one PD was speaking badly about another program, and so on).

To address your new subject change, nobody said that one program had more rigorous admission requirements than another. That was never mentioned in the entire thread, so I'm not sure why you're bringing admission requirements up. What I did say was FL has a lot of schools. This makes it more likely that they can get accepted into a school in Florida vs a state with less schools. I'm not saying that they're not competitive at all. This has nothing to do with quality either. Quality was never mentioned. FL has some good programs. However, you continue to falsely infer things and change the subject.

Also, US news rankings have to be taken with a grain of salt: I don't think I can post a link to another without violating TOS, but basically the list is the result of questionnaires sent to administrators, but that's an entirely different subject that has nothing to do with the number of schools in FL.

Oh yeah, adding the words "God bless" doesn't make words sound less spiteful.

[RNDude2012]

Not offended, I am just trying to help a brother out and bring you (and potential readers) back to reality. I realize that graduate school can foment a illusory attitude of superiority. TWU ranks closer to the bottom 25% of ranked CRNA programs according to the US News and World Report. Their admission requirements are no more rigorous than Florida programs, perhaps they are less selective because they admit more applicants.

I would agree that quite possibly, more elite universities in the northeast and Mid-Atlantic are more selective and have more rigorous admission requirements than programs in Florida or Texas. My primary point is those in glass houses shouldn't throw stones and such.

God Bless.

Were you even reading what he was saying

[Future1Intub8er1995]

Good Evening Colleague,

I must say that you should put more stock into the USNWR (US News and World Report) rankings. If they are a "popularity contest" among "administrators." By your logic, programs in the state of Florida would be ranked lower than those online/distance programs in TX/CA because PDs think it's a state of last resort.

I don't think I'll speak further on this subject as I believe it is contributing to a Chakra Imbalance.

Good Day.

[ProgressiveThinking, MSN, CRNA]

I think you're choosing to not speak further on the subject because of your inability to respond coherently due to a lack of research, the inability to view issues objectively and without emotion, and not being in the anesthesia world yet. Some friendly advice that can help once you're in a program:

1) Don't call CRNAs academically average. They will make your life a living hell.

2) Try to put your feelings aside in order to view things objectively. I know it can be difficult.

3) Do research before discussing a subject. These people will be able to tell that you don't know what you're talking about and you will get eaten up alive. Changing the subject won't help either.

4) It's unprofessional to put down other schools. If you actually read my posts I think you would see that I never put down any programs, but you put mine down.

I hope you come off as a nicer person IRL so that a program will accept you. Good luck :)