What the heck is going on in Portland right now? - page 4

Hey everybody! I'm a mixed discipline ICU nurse at a level two trauma center in Los Angeles California, I completed a critical care residency and as of now have ten months to my belt. As of... Read More

  1. by   OregonBSN
    Salem has a new tower they opened in spring with 4 floors of critical care - 120 beds. They are going Magnet so full staffing is a must.
  2. by   frytrisha
    Well put.
  3. by   pumpkinutter
    Sonny

    It's tough here right now. Let me shed some light on the subject of Nursing work in Oregon. One.. there are 4+ 4 year RN schools with in or around the greater Portland. All of but one graduated this year.. so there is a flood of 4 year RNs looking for work.. but even they are struggling I am seeing these nurses in home healthcare... because of this all positions are looking for the creme de la creme... Know this recently VA had chosen to eliminate the LPN floor positions for 4 year RN positions which displaces all the 2 year and diploma'd RN's not to mention all the med surg LPNs. So unless you have that absolutely sterling resume.. I would hang on.. Lpn's and 2 year rns are just about in the same boat... nursing homes and home health and on rare occ clinics if you want to take the pay cut
    good luck

    pumpkinutter
  4. by   sonnyluv
    Quote from pumpkinutter
    Sonny

    It's tough here right now. Let me shed some light on the subject of Nursing work in Oregon. One.. there are 4+ 4 year RN schools with in or around the greater Portland. All of but one graduated this year.. so there is a flood of 4 year RNs looking for work.. but even they are struggling I am seeing these nurses in home healthcare... because of this all positions are looking for the creme de la creme... Know this recently VA had chosen to eliminate the LPN floor positions for 4 year RN positions which displaces all the 2 year and diploma'd RN's not to mention all the med surg LPNs. So unless you have that absolutely sterling resume.. I would hang on.. Lpn's and 2 year rns are just about in the same boat... nursing homes and home health and on rare occ clinics if you want to take the pay cut
    good luck

    pumpkinutter
    I'm not sure I agree with you, at all. Hospitals don't care one way or another if you have a BSN. They certainly don't pay much more for it. What they want is experience. I appreciate your insight but 1) I've been working in one of the best I.C.U.'s in this wonderful city since August, with an ADN and a decent resume 2) Having been in the medical field for almost 6 years now, a nurse for 15 months, I can say that four year nursing students TRADITIONALLY have less clinical experience than anyone else on the floor. A BSN does not mean you have 4 years of experience. It means you took your undergrad at the same place you got your nursing degree, paid a lot more in loans and if you want, can move into management sooner than me. (enjoy.) I haven't seen an LVN on a hospital floor in three years. Comparing a "two year RN" to a "four year RN" to a "LPN" is nonsensical. While it looks good on a resume you will find that during the interview with the hiring manager it will not get you very far.
    Oh yeah, the VA is hiring basic RN's, without any experience. I'm still getting calls from kaiser and Providence.
    frankly pumpkinnutter, the whole BSN thing is kind of a load. Nurses with BSN's have a hard time coming up with reasons as to why they actually need the BSN and they seem incapable of commanding or even asking for more money with it. In fact, BSN grads are the only new nurses who don't talk about money. Why is that? Bad word, money? I think not! Just too professional I guess.
    The reality is a lot of BSN's have never had a job before. Maybe they worked part time, or volunteered somewhere but the vast majority get their credentials rammed in their face, they are the most easily overworked, and seem utterly incapable of taking themselves seriously. They do gossip a lot though.
    Cheers
    S
  5. by   drugstorecowgirl214
    Prov Milwaukie has made it very clear that they're not going to look at you unless you have a BSN, but I've found not so with other institutions.
  6. by   vanburbian
    Sonny- If you have ICU experience, then no, a BSN vs ADN doesn't really matter. If you do not have some sort of very specialized experience, i.e. ICU/CCU, OR, ED- then currently the BSN's are getting the positions. You are "still" getting calls because ICU nurses are in high demand everywhere. Kaiser just opened their surgical cardiac ICU, and are desperate to get nurses with experience, and Salem is adding an entire wing with high need for "unit" nurses. LPN's are still working at the VA, and the VA is still hiring them for the floor.
    Given my 20 years of multiple areas experience, EXCEPT ICU- and that I have an ADN, not a BSN, I have heard from hiring managers directly that they prefer the BSN right now that they can be choosy.
    Also, yes, BSN's do get a salary premium at ALMOST every hospital in town.
    Personally, I agree with a lot you say, however, right now a BSN looks good on paper- 2 hospital systems are currently attempting Magnet status in the next 2 years, and require a certain number of BSN's in their midst. It simply looks good in stats.
  7. by   sonnyluv
    Quote from hoopschick
    Kaiser just opened their surgical cardiac ICU, and are desperate to get nurses with experience, and Salem is adding an entire wing with high need for "unit" nurses. LPN's are still working at the VA, and the VA is still hiring them for the floor.
    Given my 20 years of multiple areas experience, EXCEPT ICU- and that I have an ADN, not a BSN, I have heard from hiring managers directly that they prefer the BSN right now that they can be choosy.
    .
    I agree, to get in right out of school the BSN is undeniably an asset. It just seems sad to me that it takes a recession/depression to make any sense out of the BSN. And the salary premiums are like, a buck an hour. That's not a premium, that's literally pocket change to keep BSN R.N.'s from realizing they're getting jipped.Obviously, IMO.

    In regards to the Kaiser CTICU- HAVE YOU SEEN THE MINIMUM REQUIREMENTS FOR THAT POSITION??!! OMG! THEY WANT A LETTER OF REFERENCE FROM A CARDIOTHORACIC SURGEON, BSN, IABP, CRRT, 3 YEARS MINIMUM, CCRN.

    But here's what's messed up about that- they aren't going to pay you ONE RED CENT MORE FOR THAT KNOWLEDGE, EXPERIENCE, AND LEVEL OF CERTIFICATION. Sure you'll get the 10K bonus, which will be 5K after taxes but that's it? All those years of learning, stress, studying and your base will be two or three bucks above a new grad on med-surge. Forget it. Honestly, at that level you are expected to know as much as M.D.'s. That is no exaggeration, about half your day is spent arguing with M.D.'s about why their orders are 1) written wrong 2) just plain wrong.
    I love critical care, I love my time in the I.C.U, and I realize this is a bit off topic but-and it feels great to say this: risk vs. reward- it just aint worth it.
    I've started a new job at a providence ER, non-trauma. Just helping patients out, learning more and more, and guess what? I realistically am expected to know 50% less than what was required of me on a daily basis in the I.C.U. I never got paid for that knowledge, all I got was more stress, more dead bodies, more sad families and more flak from management. Anytime I would put my foot down, use evidence based research to back up my points some busy body nurse would float by and say"well I have 20 years of experience and maybe your little book says that but I'VE NEVER DONE IT LIKE THAT SO IT'S WRONG." End of discussion.
    I took a break and now I realize, it just wasn't worth it. Perhaps if my base came out to a 100k a year, maybe it would have been, but frankly, I made as much as med surge nurses who weren't even required to be able to understand a single ecg rhythm, or any ACLS, yet I was required to be able to expertly read a 12 lead ecg! Knowledge is power and I enjoyed what I learned so much, it really was invigorating.

    In the end, having that knowledge, having NO power and a monster mortgage sucks. Being an elite I.C.U. nurse seems to be more about ego than anything else. Forget about it!

    Sorry ya'll, my 2 pennies. I have so much less stress in my life and MAKE THE SAME PAY! It just wasn't worth it.
    Most of you out there are thinking: CRNA. Go for it if the prestige and money are your passion. Nothing wrong with that. But just remember, there are costs.
    Cheers
    S
  8. by   pumpkinutter
    congrats to you ! enjoy portland its wonderful just for reference here is what the VA offers LPNS
    The incumbent practices as a Licensed Practical Nurse in Specialties including Specialty Care Outpatient Clinic and Inpatient Psychiatric Unit.

    none of the aforementioned practices are med surg or cardiac its clinic work or ambulatory center work... thats what I was getting at but I also have 3 long time LPN friends that work at the VA and one was shifted to another floor... the psych floor..)

    either way enjoy P town hope you got to voodoo doughnuts and glowing greens
    Happy days to you
  9. by   TristanT
    "BSN grads are the only new nurses who don't talk about money..." --uh, what is there to say? Pay is based on seniority: Period. And P.S. you get FIRED for talking about salaries in professional corporate America.

    I'm one of those completely screwed new-grad BSNs who cannot find a job even with this pretty little credential. This is a second career for me. I am not a gossiping kid who has never worked a day in my life. I actually chose to go into nursing because it seemed like a challenging and rewarding field. Turns out it is much more of a mean-spirited sorority: ADN vs. BSN vs. LPN vs. RN vs. Med/Surg Nurses vs. Critical Care... If you are training me as a new nurse, chances are I am way more concerned about making a mistake than what degree you hold or how many years you've worked wherever. What's with all of the hazing of the newbies and backstabbing in this profession?
  10. by   sonnyluv
    Quote from TristanT
    "BSN grads are the only new nurses who don't talk about money..." --uh, what is there to say? Pay is based on seniority: Period. And P.S. you get FIRED for talking about salaries in professional corporate America.

    Turns out it is much more of a mean-spirited sorority: ADN vs. BSN vs. LPN vs. RN vs. Med/Surg Nurses vs. Critical Care... If you are training me as a new nurse, chances are I am way more concerned about making a mistake than what degree you hold or how many years you've worked wherever. What's with all of the hazing of the newbies and backstabbing in this profession?
    I apologize you feel like there is hazing going on. My post is responsible for that sentiment. Believe it or not, I sympathize with you more than I have issues with the BSN. I think it's wonderful that nursing is moving forward, becoming undeniably more professional. Nurses are gifted, talented, dynamic pro's and we deserve a whole lot more credit than we get. The BSN frustrates me because it is not changing the profession for the better. It seems to be raising the bar for expectations with no reward. And while your focus is on employment and becoming a nurse you will soon ask yourself, "Okay, I'm a nurse, I know what I'm doing, I'm educated, why no growth? Why are nurses pay and status capped so early but responsibilities grow exponentially."
    Nursing is a field of lateral movements, not upward.
    This is my second career, I have a B.A. in media. I worked in a corporate environment. I cannot believe the expectations placed on nurses and the offensive demand that we do what we are told because if we don't we are greedy evil people who hate our patients. That's a generalization but a subtle pervasive attitude I pick up on from many unsatisfied nurses. It's ridiculous.
    With your BSN your scope of practice is not much different than mine. Your pay is not much more than an ADN (though it absolutely should be). I guess my frustration lies with the fact that I see the BSN graduates and I expect to hear excitement about this wonderful career, I expect to hear talk about moving nursing forward, more talk of nursing research, more talk of pay improvements (nursing salaries on a whole have been relatively stagnant for the last 8 years yet we are expected to do more and know more), more talk of professional recognition amongst our peers for the amazing jobs we do on a daily basis.
    But there is an utter disconnect regarding the fact that nursing is a rough, sometimes brutal sport. After you find a job and get settled in I assure you will ask yourself, what did this degree do for me? If it got you your foot in the door, great-but what about that horrible nursing shortage?
    You will be forced to confront an absurd amount of hostility coming from senior nurses who feel insecure or cheated. The behavior of experienced nurses towards new nurses is not only illegal but is tolerated and encouraged. It breeds resentment and profound insecurity.
    I see no collective thought or direction from our field. I don't advocate that anybody talk politics or salary at work but my friends who are new BSN's seem to expect senior nurses to take care of all matters political. The fact is, senior nurses are EXTREMELY THREATENED by new nurses of any degree. We work cheaper, we take more crap from management and admin cuz we don't know better. And worst of all, they are expected to train their own replacements. Hospitals do let go of senior nurses rather easily. I feel such resentment among older nurses and I sympathize to a point. Newer nurses have more career possibilities, the treatment of nurses is much much better than it was 20 years ago. I've only had a problem with one or two docs but I constantly find senior nurses saying horrible things about me and my coworkers. Senior nurses that have mentored me have had to do so quietly for fear of retribution from their peers. Nursing simply has not caught up to modern standards of professionalism.
    Nursing hasn't been about making the doc happy or even being afraid of him/her. It is a collaborative sport that is incredibly satisfying when someone gets better, heals. But if the healers are neglected, poorly treated, burned out, uninterested in expanding their own field, well then , everybody suffers. I'm grateful there are more BSN's-if you guys don't lead us who will?
  11. by   PMFB-RN
    Quote from LinfieldNursingGuy
    Salem has a new tower they opened in spring with 4 floors of critical care - 120 beds. They are going Magnet so full staffing is a must.
    *** I work at a Magnet hospital (whoop-ti-do) and at the time we got the certification we had 27 RN openings (out of 54 FTEs) in out ICU. Half to two thirds of all the nurses on each shift where travelers. I don't think a fully staffed ICU is a requirement for Magnet.
    Based only on my own personal experience I would be more inclined to work at a non Magnet hospital.
  12. by   OregonBSN
    Quote from PMFB-RN
    *** I work at a Magnet hospital (whoop-ti-do) and at the time we got the certification we had 27 RN openings (out of 54 FTEs) in out ICU. Half to two thirds of all the nurses on each shift where travelers. I don't think a fully staffed ICU is a requirement for Magnet.
    Based only on my own personal experience I would be more inclined to work at a non Magnet hospital.
    You are correct, full staffing is not a requirement. The requirement is "adequate staffing".... There are plenty of non-Magnet hospitals to choose from if you are looking to leave your position.
  13. by   JuliaC~RN~
    Well, it sounds like everyone is pretty fired up..... I am certainly happy for you Soonyluv, and all the other people who have jobs. No grudge for you coming from LA. I hate the traffic there! I've been reading all the posts about BSN/ADN and getting a job. Just to let ya know, I'm a ADN graduate, I rocked nursing school and I mistakenly applied for the Salem New Grad position not reading the BSN requirement. I got an email back in less than an hour saying I didn't meet the minimum requirement.... and I was bummed out all day. But I'll keep looking!!! Eventually I get hired somewhere!!

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