I had transferred from the cardiac cath lab to CVOR, my preceptor told me after I started orientation that if I complained about a certain surgeons behavior and habit of throwing things, my CVOR career would be over.
Well, my CVOR career is over. I told her and the Director that I would not and could not tolerate such behavior from a supposed well educated and adult person.
Thanks for reading, just had to vent. I had posted previously about him screaming at me because my preceptor stepped out of the room for two minutes, and no, he (or anyone else) needed anything. I was told that is just the way he is.
Amen. Every time a nurse kisses the butt of a surgeon, it reinforces the surgeon's bad behavior.
I gotta disagree with you there, Witchy. Management who allow this abuse are too stupid to change in the future.
Oh, I know there are still plenty of clueless managers and such out there...but I do believe that change will happen. The Joint Commision is making a huge thing of this too-being that more errors happen when you have abused staff that are too afraid to point out mistakes and issues.
I was talking with some older nurses who remembered when surgeons would rountinely hit techs and nurses.:angryfire That's changed, at least where I am. They now discipline disruptive docs at this hospital-we're union though, so that may make a difference.
I agree...it may take decades to get everyone on the same page..but every time someone confronts it like the OP, that's a step closer.
During my one year of being an SRNA, I was amazed at what is allowed to go on behind the closed OR doors. People at the top of the hierarchy do whatever they want to people lower on the hierarchy. Complaining about it is frowned on by everyone, including OR nurses. It is a very strong cultural norm.
Surgeons and surgery bring in $$ for the hospital. This behavior will never change.
Whether it happens or not at a particular hospital is entirely dependent upon each particular surgeon. If they want to act that way, they will get away with it.
If I never set foot into the OR again, that'll be just fine with me.
I'm going to respectfully disagree...all ORs are not like this. But, you have to have NMs who back their staff. I'm fortunate to have a boss like this...no one messes with her, surgeon or not. The one time I got an insult from a surgeon...I got a phone call and an apology a couple of hours later from that same doc. Come to find out, the boss was behind that. She can make you or break you and the docs know this. I've also found that many of these same bully docs back down when you give it right back. That's when I started getting some respect from them, when they knew I didn't tolerate crap.
We had a doc a few years back who hit a tech with an instrument..this person sued the doctor and the hospital and won. The hospital learned the hard way that this abusive behavior can cost them. The doctor doesn't have privileges there anymore either. So, doctors do not always get away with it..if people fight the culture that's allowed it to go on, it will improve.
Great post, WitchyRN. I am a firm believer that it is each persons right and responsibility to set boundaries regarding how they let others treat them.
However, there are some situations that make this extremely difficult, being a student, being on orientation.
I heard a circulator say once to a surgeon who threw an instrument at her. She said, "Doctor, please aim better. I want to be able to sue you for everything you've got. And don't believe I won't." He never misbehaved around her again.
Immediate feedback is the best deterrent.
This all being said, there are docs with whom I've worked for years and really respect. Sometimes they lose it if a pt is circling the drain or whatever. I am willing to give them the benefit of the doubt if it is a rare occurrence. Just like you would with friends or family. But re: the doc who regularly acts like a toxic jerk, immediate un-emotional, rational feedback is the way to go.
If you work in a place that reprimands or punishes you for dealing with it that way, work somewhere else.
Rattie, I love your story about the nurse telling the doc to aim better. That was great. Honestly, I could care less if they bring in the big bucks, they'd better treat their nurses with respect. I've never had any problem with the surgeons that I work with especially the attendings. In fact, I had one of the attendings call up a resident who was in the OR and tell him we were transfering his patient to a GPU whether he liked it or not. We had a surgeon leave recently and he wrote to the residents, "Respect the nurses, you are a guest in their hospital".
Now the last facility I worked at, there was no accountability on the doctor's part about how they treated the nurses. Most were very rude and condescending. And it was the FACILITY that continued to perpetuate this because "oh they are the doctors and they are bringing their patients here so we can make money".
To the OP, have you thought about filing a complaint with JCAHO?
The people that say we should just take it are hindering our profession, in my opinion.
Specializes in Retired OR nurse/Tissue bank technician.
We had a surgeon who was notorious for inappropriate behaviour. It finally got so bad (throwing contaminated sponges, etc, at staff) that all the staff who were in with him that day wrote him up to the head of the health authority. A few of us also refused to work his clinic. Thankfully, our manager stood behind us.
Since you are out of your job, keep up with the pressure. Write the nursing board for your state/province as well as your union and tell them what happened, contact the state physician's board and report his behaviour to them.
I was pushed out of my OR job while I was on sick leave because of lies told about me by my manager. During a meeting with the union, HR and OH&S, I told the group a few things about my manager's behaviour, both toward me and the facility in general that caused her to be fired and for some new procedures and protocols to be brought in.
I still haven't been able to return to work due to the illness, but it is good to know that there have been changes made and that my name was redeemed. You may not be able to return to that particular OR, but you could clear your name and move on to another facility-while also trying to help make sure the surgeon that abused you won't keep doing that to other nurses.
Thank you everyone for the encouragement and kind words. I just could not believe my Director and preceptor told me to put up with and shut up or get out. My director told me that the surgeon brings in big bucks to the hospital and that nurses are a liability. Those were the exact words used.
I know that I'm a good nurse, I have several awards to back that up. I save all of my patient reviews (copies), in a file to remind me why I got into nursing as a second career.
I'm going to pursue this, even if it means that I'm history at that particular hospital. This hospital is supposed to be a "nurse friendly" facility. Doesn't that just blow you away?
Thank you one and all. I do appreciate it. Just reading your responses made me feel better and the courage to stand up not only for myself, but for the future OR nurses.
Really sorry to hear but unfortunately it's not rare. What does the "CVOR" stand for?
I wonder what your Director would say if there weren't any nurses around,that is considering that we are a" liability"..........I'll tell you a story. My OR received a very experienced surgeon from another hospital and immediately became a Director of one of the depts. We did our homework and picked up a phone and made some inquiries. Turns out,that at his former hospital ,his conduct was such that all the scrub nurses signed a petition that they wouldn't scub in any of his cases. He soon left the OR and came to us. On his first day,our Chief OR Nurse told him not to unpack his suitcase if he even considered continuing on with his past behavior.
Put it down on paper. As we say "choose your battles".
CVOR - cardiovascular operating room. I appreciate all the responses. I am going to pursue this, I've made calls and emails to JACHO, labor board, etc. I'm waiting to hear back. I've also called an attorney to protect my interests. I just hope to help future OR nurses.
So, 
GadgetRN71, ASN, RN
1,841 Posts
I was talking with some older nurses who remembered when surgeons would rountinely hit techs and nurses.:angryfire That's changed, at least where I am. They now discipline disruptive docs at this hospital-we're union though, so that may make a difference.
I agree...it may take decades to get everyone on the same page..but every time someone confronts it like the OP, that's a step closer.