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NY LPNs: How are you coping?

Specializes in Hospital, PDN, rehab, corrections.

If you're from NY, you know what I'm talking about...

Here's a quote from one of my other posts for those of you who don'n know what we're facing here in NY:

"It IS happening here. I am from NY. They instituted the BSN law this year. Right now, they are debating whether to "grandfather" current associate RNs in, or give them ten years to get their BSN's, (or loose your license). Also, none of the hospitals are hiring LPNs because of the new state laws- GET THIS- we can no longer ASSESS patients. An RN has to co-sign the assessment, by law. So, the hospital is streamlining things for the RNs by taking assessment away from us entirely.

Just a few months ago, I was working in the most liberal department for LPNs to work in- the ER. There was very LITTLE that I was not allowed to do because of our clinical model. We essentially did the same job as the RNs, minus pushing IV meds. Slowly, they took things away from us: placing NG tubes, accessing PICC lines, assessing IV drips.. then... BOOM! As of this year, we can no longer have patient assignments. We are no longer able to be NURSES. LPN's are now "Nursing Adjuncts" and have essentially the same rols as a Nursing Technician, ( basically a CNA that can start IVs and place catheters).

So, in order to be a nurse again, (to do the job I've BEEN doing for years) I have to get my BS.

With the new laws, the only place for an LPN in NY is in the nursing homes. No offense to any of you nursing home nurses, but I became a nurse to get OUT of the nursing home. It takes a special person to do geriatrics, and I'm not it. I want action- imagine a seasoned ER nurse working in a nursing home. It's a waste of my training. What good are ACLS and TNCC certificates if everyone you're caring for has a DNR?

LPNs in NY State were previously motivated to get their RN to gain the esteem of their colleagues and no longer be "just LPNs". Now we're going back to school just to get our jobs back! We're very vulnerable now- since we've been demoted we are now overpaid aides and can be replaced by someone who makes half as much.

Bottom line? LPNs and Associate RNs are being phased out of NY State. The State DOH wants a BSN at every bedside."

NursesRmofun, ASN, RN

Specializes in Registered Nurse.

I live in NY and have not heard this....And I currently work in a state-ran institution. I don't think they have any choice BUT to grandfather in Assoc. Degree nurses, IF they were to change the requirement for RNs. They would sure lose a heck of a lot of nurses. Hospitals would be closing left and right. It seems way out there to me. They would almost have to grandfather Assoc. Degrees and give ample warning of the future requirements effective date. I think LPNs and Assoc. Degree RNs are safe.

"Registered Professional Nursing

You must hold at least a two-year degree or diploma from a program in general professional nursing that is acceptable to the Department and is:

1. registered by the New York State Education Department or

2. approved by the licensing authority or appropriate governmental agency in the jurisdiction where the school is located as preparation for practice as a registered professional nurse."

copied from NY board of Nursing. Nothing about a BSN that I see.

NYCRN16

Specializes in ER, PACU.

I live in NY too, and I was an LPN before I was an RN as well. From what I have been hearing (which I cant confirm is true, just going by hearsay), is that they want to phase out the ADN programs by a certain year, but this wouldnt effect nurses who are already licensed. I have noticed that the hospitals are not hiring LPN's as much as they used to, I was unable to find a job in a hospital when I was an LPN, I went to work at a nursing home. The part about assessment is not new, that was always the "rule". LPN's are not "allowed" to assess, that is the role of the RN. I am NOT saying that LPN's cant assess, I am just saying that legally they are not allowed to do it. (I sure as hell know that I assessed plenty of patients when I was an LPN!)

tankity

Specializes in Hospital, PDN, rehab, corrections.

This applies Acute-care LPNs. The few and far-between. I work in the Emergency Room and was the first LPN ever hired to that departmet. I worked HARD to earn the respect of my RN counterparts. Now, all that work has been flushed down the drain by JCAHO and the NYSDOH. :banghead:

The changes have no bearing on nursing home nurses- because they aren't allowed to do much, anyway. I don't think the changes apply to non-acute nurses, either. Many hospitals are going to team-nursing on acute floors, or booting their LPNs off them.

What I mean by "phasing out" is that the new laws make LPNs an undesireable burden- why hire an LPN who has to have their assessments co-signed, and their IV meds given for them, when you can just hire an RN? If you were an RN, would you want to sign off on an assessment you did not do? No. They complain enough about having to push meds that cannot be piggy-backed in NS. Now we've become an even bigger burden for them to complain about again.

We just heard about the changes last week- our hospital is currently non-complient, as are many local hospitals, because they just don't know what to do with us, short of firing us all. My hospital's solution was to make us all aides, to solve the aide shortage. We keep out pay rate, but are no longer nurses. :angryfire

I feel for your situation...I have been an LPN for 10 years and also see them being phased out in parts of the country in the acute care setting. Turn your anger into a positive solution like going back to school to attain your ADN. That is what I did! I have a small daughter that I did not want in daycare so I opted the Excelsior college route. I have just completed all the course work and CPNE. I plan to start work on the BSN program at my local university this summer (they accept EC credits). One bit at a time and I will get my BSN. It is not easy but my goal keeps me going. Start classes or just positively learn to deal with it are your options. Unfortunately, your choices seem three--1)go for the higher degree 2)adjust to the changes positively 3)change settings or careers. I know that sounds harsh but that is how I narrowed my decision down. Maybe try a different area of nursing--but avoid getting bogged down with resentment--it's outcome are never usually positive. Turn it around, put a spin on it by empowering yourself!

Karen

This applies Acute-care LPNs. The few and far-between. I work in the Emergency Room and was the first LPN ever hired to that departmet. I worked HARD to earn the respect of my RN counterparts. Now, all that work has been flushed down the drain by JCAHO and the NYSDOH. :banghead:

The changes have no bearing on nursing home nurses- because they aren't allowed to do much, anyway. I don't think the changes apply to non-acute nurses, either. Many hospitals are going to team-nursing on acute floors, or booting their LPNs off them.

What I mean by "phasing out" is that the new laws make LPNs an undesireable burden- why hire an LPN who has to have their assessments co-signed, and their IV meds given for them, when you can just hire an RN? If you were an RN, would you want to sign off on an assessment you did not do? No. They complain enough about having to push meds that cannot be piggy-backed in NS. Now we've become an even bigger burden for them to complain about again.

We just heard about the changes last week- our hospital is currently non-complient, as are many local hospitals, because they just don't know what to do with us, short of firing us all. My hospital's solution was to make us all aides, to solve the aide shortage. We keep out pay rate, but are no longer nurses. :angryfire

Wait, what is this "BSN Law"??? I'm in NY and am about to start applying to get my ADN. Is this a waste of my time now???

rnmaven

Has 35+ years experience. Specializes in CTSICU, SICU, MICU, CCU, Trauma.

Wait, what is this "BSN Law"??? I'm in NY and am about to start applying to get my ADN. Is this a waste of my time now???

I was trying to search this site to look for the news item that was posted awhile back re: the BSN requirement in NYS but couldn't find it right now.

Anyway, it is true that the state of NY is going to go BSN as the minimum requirement for sitting for your license. Those with AD or Diplomas will be grandfathered in and those completing current programs will have 10 years to get a BSN.

REALLY........this is not a big issue.

If you are using the AD or Diploma route to obtain your RN that just means you'll have to continue your journey to more education. In today's nursing education structure this is not such a big deal! There are plenty of online programs and there are also BSN to MSN programs offered. Take it from someone who took the VERY long route........I was a 3 year Diploma grad that also came with an AAS degree via the community college. (1977) THEN, because there weren't any online programs and very few BSN programs that would accept me as a transfer student........I spent the next 6 years finishing up a BSN.

NOW......I see grads from my same diploma school going to a local state school and getting the BSN to MSN degree in less than 3 years.

It's a good way to go if you don't want alot of school loans, or you're older, etc. I just spent the past 4 years doing a MSN program just because I still have another 17 years or so to work and need to keep current with degree requirements. That's the nature of being a professional. Nobody said it would be easy......you have to become a lifetime learner or you will just become outdated!

Good luck!

Yeah, but what's going to happen to all the ADN programs? When will they be phased out? I'm trying to start and complete my ADN within the next 3 years (I have to go part time and waiting list/pre req issues). I'm worries.

Better question, who is the authority on this legislation? How can I reasearch this and find out the facts? Thanks.

tankity

Specializes in Hospital, PDN, rehab, corrections.

Mmh, good question. I couldn't find anything on the NYSDOH web site about it. The local community college is keeping the nursing program, but you have to transfer out to a four-year school to finish it. They are making arrangents with some local colleges to streamline the transfer. Several LPNs I work with are just going the Excelcior route.

rnmaven

Has 35+ years experience. Specializes in CTSICU, SICU, MICU, CCU, Trauma.

Mmh, good question. I couldn't find anything on the NYSDOH web site about it. The local community college is keeping the nursing program, but you have to transfer out to a four-year school to finish it. They are making arrangents with some local colleges to streamline the transfer. Several LPNs I work with are just going the Excelcior route.

Try this site: and search thru the links......I'm sure that they have something about the plans for BSN in NYS. http://www.op.nysed.gov/nursing.htm

(You're going to have to copy/paste this link because I don't know how to transfer links over.....sorry.)

Anyway, I really don't see the big deal about just continuing on after a AD. Financially it works well because you get to work as an RN and just chip away at whatever BSN requirements you need to have that requirement. Russell Sage College in Troy NY offers programs where you could continue on and with just a little more effort you could finish up withh a MSN and be done with it. Good luck!

chip193

Specializes in ER.

I live in NY, but work in MA.

However, I can tell you this much about the NY BSN thing:

It is a proposal by the Board of Nursing that was sent to the State Legislature. The Legislature must act on it to become law.

The following was included:

- For 10 years, the ADN would be an RN.

- If a BSN was not obtained in the 10 year period, the ADN would become an LPN.

- Current licensees were exempt from the requirement.

Chip

I believe that you are all referring to the "1985 BSN Position Paper", originally proposed back in the late 1960's. This paper, as a result of a national grant given to nursing educators to formalize their evaluation of nursing education. It proposed that by the year 1985, the minimum entry level education for a professional nurse be a BSN. This stance immediately received negative reaction from the association of ADN programs developed after WW2, by M Montag. It has been kicked around for years and years, re-surfacing evey several years, with no avail. One poster is correct that it must be proposed and then voted on. This has been attempted almost a dozen times all with no success. Currently, NOTHING is happening in NY State. It has been met with such resistance that it has been shelfed once again. ADN programs are too strong in numbers and they want their govt grants $$$ to continue. The National Association of LPNs are adamit that they will strongly endores LPNs as educated nurses.With a constantly looming nursing shortage this is not the way to go......although eventually it might be the norm, most educators I deal with say the only way to do this is "grandfather "in all currently licensed RNs , as RNs. Your status will never change. You can not be knocked down into another catagory--as you are licensed and responsible for your level of education.---hope that clarifys a few things---

Liddle Noodnik

Has 30 years experience. Specializes in Alzheimer's, Geriatrics, Chem. Dep..

If you're from NY, you know what I'm talking about...

Here's a quote from one of my other posts for those of you who don'n know what we're facing here in NY:

Uh huh, yeah, GREAT solution to the nursing shortage; GREAT solution to the shortage of GOOD NURSES! And experience? Who needs it!

I can't imagine this would REALLY HAPPEN, but stranger things have ...

{{{{{{{{{{{{{LPN'S}}}}}}}}}}}}}} You guys are awesome, I'm so sorry...

Kathy, RN diploma

ps I was born in ELMIRA, lived on TUTTLE AVE, 1959-67ish

tankity

Specializes in Hospital, PDN, rehab, corrections.

I didn't realize that it was proposed by the board of nursing- why would they do that? They, of all people, should know that such a proposal would only be stabbing themselves in the foot.

I know I am not going to worry about it. It takes new york forever to get anything done...I can probably be a retired LPN before they figure it all out & I am only 24!

pediatriclpn

Has 19 years experience. Specializes in Geriatric, LTC, PC, home care, pediatric.

for the poster that said you only have three options.............sorry, you are wrong. You have a fourth. Get involved with the nursing organizations, help lobby for keeping things the way they are. I live in PA, and know that there are going to be issues like this in any state. (I grew up about 30 miles from Elmira, and had an uncle who lived there). But write your legislatures, write your state BON or BOH let them know your position and how it would affect nurses, patient care, your community, and your family. And yes nursing is, and should be for all nurses a life long education, and we should all do what we can to keep up with all the changes and new information. But alot of us no matter what can not afford to go back to school to formalize the "further education" and therefore get a degree and increase in pay, and maybe we are happy that way. I don't believe that forcing nurses to continue to go back to school, and have to pay for it, to keep doing what we do best. There is a reason why we have the schooling programs that we have, and a reason why we have the different levels on nursing that we do. Not saying that things don't ever need to change, but that level of thinking isn't the most helpful.

I feel for your situation...I have been an LPN for 10 years and also see them being phased out in parts of the country in the acute care setting. Turn your anger into a positive solution like going back to school to attain your ADN. That is what I did! I have a small daughter that I did not want in daycare so I opted the Excelsior college route. I have just completed all the course work and CPNE. I plan to start work on the BSN program at my local university this summer (they accept EC credits). One bit at a time and I will get my BSN. It is not easy but my goal keeps me going. Start classes or just positively learn to deal with it are your options. Unfortunately, your choices seem three--1)go for the higher degree 2)adjust to the changes positively 3)change settings or careers. I know that sounds harsh but that is how I narrowed my decision down. Maybe try a different area of nursing--but avoid getting bogged down with resentment--it's outcome are never usually positive. Turn it around, put a spin on it by empowering yourself!

Karen

Going back to school is not an option for everybody. And to think if you want it badly enough, you can do it is a falsehood.

I chose to be an LPN way back when and I have not had the opportunity to complete an ASN and at this point in my life, it is impossible, completely out of the question to return to school.

It's not an easy answer, nor is requiring a BSN to be at the badside a wise move. The ANA has been pushing for this for years and it looks like they are finally managing to get someplace with it. It is, in short, a horrible waste of resources, both now and in the future. LPNs and ASN RNs are more than prepared well enough for the BS. With experience and independant study there is no reason why LPNs should not advance as an Advanced Practitioner LPN. That is not to say we should be equal to Advanced Practice RNs, but for the Advanced Practice LPN to function the same as an RN in her chosen field, with a pay rate similar to an RN with fewer years of experience.

This country is wasteful to the max in healthcare and this BSN bull only proves that nursing should not be regulating nursing!

The whole thing is not "improved pt care or outcome", it is about improved "respect" and achknowledgement that nurses are independant professionals. Is this really needed for excellent pt care/outcome? I believe not. But; it is needed for the ANA to demand the "respect" they so desperately desire. It's not respect they want, I have never been (except 1 time) subject to disrespect in nearly 30 years as an LPN. That one time was by an MD who showed no respect to anybody! Oh, I've run into RNitis and other irritations many times, but this is not disrespect, it is ignorance on the part of the person directing their ignorance at me.

No, going back to school is not possible, being reduced to a glorified aide is not practical and somebody needs to step in and knock some good sense into the ANA and BONs before they make health care cost prohibitive to all Americans.

LPNer,

I disagree. Where there is a will there is a way...may not be super fast way, but it can be accomplished. If the OP does indeed feel it is impossible and LPN's are being phased out then unfortunately there is nothing to be done other than deal with it or look else where for positions that are LPN friendly. I do not agree with an advanced practice LPN functioning as an RN--bottom line if the agency or board of nursing requires an RN for a certain position then that is who should fill it. LPN's are great and do function in similar roles but the RN did the time and should be compensated for it as well as the added resposiblity. I have been an LPN for a decade--and a good one...but it didn't make me aware of all the why's behind things. Both RN/LPN's have a place unfortunately the board of nurse's and employers determine the extent of the role. If one isn't happy with it and "can't" further their education then they need to deal with it or move on. No one needs to fight the ANA to let LPN's function as RN's (but to make them cna's by all means yes we shouldn't allow that)...let's face it the level of acuity is up more than ever making scopes of practice beyond that of an LPN scope in some situations. Do LPN's need to be reduced to cna's??? NEVER!!!! The solution isn't an easy one by any means.

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