subective/objective data - page 3
I have a quick question about subjective and objective information when gathering assessment data. According to our book, subjective data can only be provided by the client. Objective is what... Read More
Sep 22, '08Occupation: ED Registered Nurse Joined: Apr '08; Posts: 616; Likes: 304Quote from PurrRN"Subjective data are obtained from the client, family, significant others, health care team members, and health records. Objective data are obtained through physical examination, results of diagnostic and laboratory tests, and pertinent nursing and medical literature" (Potter & Perry, p. 284, 2005,).
I was taught that Health records are also OBJECTIVE
Lab results, things you read ...all objective.
because it didnt come from the patient.
Sep 22, '08Joined: Jun '08; Posts: 172; Likes: 123Hmmm...our text (Jarvis) explains it differently.
If its not measured or observed by the nurse, then its subjective. I would ask: How did the information get to the mother? Was it said to the mom by the pt? I think someone else had a great way to chart that as "Pt mother says..." But if the pt is a child and the mother says "He fell on his head" or "he shoved the pearls from my necklace up his nose" then I can definitely see your point.
Sep 22, '08Specialty: med/surg, telemetry, IV therapy, mgmt ; Joined: May '05; Posts: 15,027; Likes: 8,985iposted this back on post #3. read it carefully. . .it means that when you are interviewing someone other than the patient, their views and perceptions are considered objective:
"objective": "of or having to do with a known or perceived object as distinguished from something existing only in the mind of the subject, or person thinking. . .real. . .actual. . .determined by and emphasizing the features and characteristics of the object, or thing dealt with, rather than the thoughts, feelings, etc of the artist, writer, or speaker. . .in medicine, designating or of a symptom or condition perceptible to others besides the patient" (page 1012, webster's new world dictionary of the american language, college edition, 1966).
Sep 22, '08Joined: Jul '03; Posts: 2,937; Likes: 2,388Let's say a family member gives you this information about a patient:"I took his blood pressure last night. It was 160/80." In and of itself, a blood pressure reading is objective. However, you have no way to confirm that information. So in your assessment, you can't use that information as fact and state that "Pt blood pressure was 160/80 last night." You CAN say "wife states patient's blood pressure was 160/80 last night." Thus for your assessment purposes, that information falls under subjective data.
Sep 22, '08Specialty: med/surg, telemetry, IV therapy, mgmt ; Joined: May '05; Posts: 15,027; Likes: 8,985Quote from jjjoyNo, no. That is incorrect. That information is considered objective. We accept that what they are telling us is objective information. We are not like a court of law and see it as being hearsay. If the reporter (the family member) believes it is true then we must assume it is and consider it objective information.Let's say a family member gives you this information about a patient:"I took his blood pressure last night. It was 160/80." In and of itself, a blood pressure reading is objective. However, you have no way to confirm that information. So in your assessment, you can't use that information as fact and state that "Pt blood pressure was 160/80 last night." You CAN say "wife states patient's blood pressure was 160/80 last night." Thus for your assessment purposes, that information falls under subjective data.
Sep 22, '08Joined: Jul '03; Posts: 2,937; Likes: 2,388Daytonite, I have no problem agreeing with you that blood pressure is objective data. I agree that family reported BP is objective data.
We've seen in this short discussion already various definitions and interpretations of how subjective/objective assessment data is defined.
I should've said that if an instructor has strictly defined subjective data as "information told you by a patient (or patient proxy)" and objective data "information collected by direct observation and measurement" then this was a scenario where otherwise objective data MIGHT be argued to be subjective based upon the aforementioned definitions (and not upon the general use definitions of objective and subjective data). I apologize for the confusing example.
Sep 22, '08Occupation: LPN Unit Manager Specialty: 6 year(s) of experience in HCA, Physch, WC, Management ; Joined: Jan '07; Posts: 260; Likes: 78The whole subjective/objective thing bugs me. We get quizzed over this stuff all the time and it seems like the parameters always change. For example, one question on our quiz the other day asked if the following was objective or subjective: "Patient denies smoking". I choose subjective because it came from the patient and there's really no way to determine whether this is true or not. I got it wrong. Another question was about whether this was objective or subjective: "Heart rate within acceptable range, normal". I put subjective because "normal" is not a measurement. I got it wrong. I forgot I was going to ask my instructor to explain her basis for these rationales. Good luck.
Sep 23, '08Occupation: ED Registered Nurse Joined: Apr '08; Posts: 616; Likes: 304I would say its objective data because it didnt come from the patient.
Sep 24, '08Joined: Jul '08; Posts: 24; Likes: 4Any data that cannot be observed directly, measured or verified is considered subjective.
A client, for example, stating he/she is in pain is subjective since pain cannot be directly observed BUT if a measure is applied (a 0-10 pain scale and location) the assessment data on a patient's pain can now be objective and documented accordingly.
Simplest definition I've been told from school.
Sep 24, '08Occupation: Student, wife, and Mom of 3, and that is plenty! From: US ; Joined: May '07; Posts: 900; Likes: 298I think we are all going to have to agree to disagree b/c we obviously have been taught by different teachers from different texts and we are not going to convince each other otherwise...answer questions about this based on what your school is teaching just my
Mar 2, '12Joined: Mar '12; Posts: 2Can information in a patient's chart be included in my objective data?
Mar 2, '12Joined: Apr '11; Posts: 0; Likes: 385i wish i could put these in two columns, side by side, but i can't.
objective, regardless of who taught you anything, is defined thus:
)) not influenced by personal feelings, interpretations, or prejudice; based on facts; unbiased: an objective opinion
)) of or pertaining to something that can be known, or to something that is an object or a part of an object; existing independent of thought or an observer as part of reality.
so, "the patient states, 'i have quit smoking' " is objective, because he did, in fact, say that.
lab and diagnostics, vital signs and other examination findings are all objective. "pain on palpation" is objective.
"resp rate 26 and labored, insp and exp wheezing throughout, exacerbated on minimal exertion (bed-to-chair transfer)" is objective.
)) existing in the mind; belonging to the thinking subject rather than to the object of thought ( opposed to objective).
)) pertaining to or characteristic of an individual; personal; individual: a subjective evaluation.
""i am so jittery since i quit smoking" is subjective, because he is reporting how he feels. he might not look jittery to you, but he says he feels that way.
"my belly is killing me," is subjective.
"i can't breathe, i can't get out of bed without gasping" is subjective.