Nursing is pathetic...

Brian, ASN, RN · Sep 29, 2000

Just thought I would let everyone (especially nursedude) know that I have added this forum so that the latest nursing discussions on the https://allnurses.com/ homepage will display postings from this forum as well.

There are currently 11 forums that are included in the homepage latest discussions listings.

BTW, if anyone has any suggestions to improve this site, please feel free to send me your suggestions to consider.

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Brian Short

https://allnurses.com

It's how nurses surf the web!

babs_rn · Sep 29, 2000

Nursedude,

I have to agree with you completely. I didn't go into nursing for the money either, though making a decent living IS important.I have qualms with a lot of things about nursing, not the least of which is the fact that we are viewed as servants by the administration and the general public. (what do you think the old nursing cap symbolized? servitude! just like the caps worn by maids and waitresses) THAT perception is one reason that a comfortable living wage is hard-won. I am having to further exhaust myself as I go back to school full time for a career change. I just can't stomach the field anymore. The hours make it impossible to have a family life (my kids don't live with me because of that) and - well, geez? Is it too much to ask that, after 12+ years in a career that I be able to afford a house, a vacation every now and then, and a decent retirement? Can't I go to my kids' soccer games and school plays? Is that so much to ask? Can't I be a mom? Well, as a hospital nurse, home health nurse, nursing home nurse, prison nurse, ANY kind of nurse in an area that actually PAYS THE BILLS (not doctors' offices) the answer is, NO, I cannot. THAT is unacceptable.

babs_rn · Sep 29, 2000

Originally posted by AnonymousRN:
First off, I'd just like to say that I love this bulletin board. I've been an RN for 2 years now, 1+ yr. med/surg telemetry 7p-7:30a with 11 monitored pts. every night (1 aide), and 7 months in the CCU. I transferred off the floor as soon as I could. To say it was a horror is putting it mildly. Never once did I get a lunch break or a break of any kind, and I routinely worked 1/2-1+ hrs over my shift for which I was never paid. That meant that every night I worked it was a 13-14 hour lock-down. Also, as I work at a cardiac-only factory (oops, did I say factory, I meant hospital), my 11 monitored pts. were very, very acute. Alot of class IV CHFers, EFs of 10-15% with dopa/dobutrex drips; post CAGBs 12-18 hours out with chest tubes and pacing wires; post-stents with arterial sheaths in place; post-MIs; everyone with Nitro/heparin gtts hanging; almost all with severe triple-vessel disease, etc. etc. Talk about stress! When I transferred to CCU, I thought the workload would be more manageable. However, in this hospital, the nurse pt. ratio is 1:3 and the acuity is through the roof. We are talking unstable, vented and swanned. 1 aide for 20 beds. I earn $25.12/hr + $2.31 night diff. And, although I do believe nurses are underpaid generally, I would GLADLY take a cut in pay for a more reasonable workload. In my opinion, what's the point of them paying us more if they're expecting us to deal with this kind of workload or worse. I mean, at what other job do people work where they don't have the time to get a bite to eat in 14 hours let alone go to the bathroom, not just occasionally but every time they work. Yes, I'm there for my pts., however, I have needs too, and I'm sick of management making me feel that my having needs equates with being a "bad nurse." I've held my urine for so long I've totally destroyed my bladder and now have urge incontinence. Talk about fun, fun, fun. I believe that it's the workload in nursing, not the salary, that's pathetic.

[This message has been edited by AnonymousRN (edited April 30, 2000).]

Would you define "urge incontinence" for me? I think I may have it, as a result of holding it for SOOOO long for so many years. My bladder has a huge capacity now, but now I don't feel it until I REALLY gotta go RIGHT THEN (which is usually when 15 patients have just signed in to triage or somebody is crashing in the ER or 3 ambulances have just arrived) so I hold it till it hurts, then when I think I'm done, guess what? I stand up and find that I'm really not done! Since this IS still a female dominated profession I can't believe no one's mentioned the problem of not getting bathroom breaks during "that time of the month". I have ruined more scrubs that way. Sorry for the graphic examples here, but it had to be said.

Brian, ASN, RN · Sep 29, 2000

Originally posted by nursedude:
Okay Brian, I stand corrected... I also am sorry if I offended you with anything I wrote.

However, (and most likely the part that will crack you up,) you mentioned: "Not all forums are posted on the main page. There are only about 5 or six of the more popular forums listed, this forum was not one of them." Just for the heck of it, which one of those "more popular" forums are you regarding? I'm asking because this thread alone has had 170 replies alone - more than any other thread as far as I can tell... So "evil scheme" or not I still think it's odd that a thread with over 170 replies is not one of the "more popular".
Also, thanks for letting it (this thread)make it to the homepage.

Nursedude,

No hard feelings... The selection process for which forums were put into the homepage listings was made by myself, with no intention to censor any particular forum, actually I am not sure why I didn't include this forum? My guess was that it was an oversight, probably one of those late nights I was working because this forum definitely is one of the more trafficked. So actually, thanks for pointing it out

Originally posted by nursedude:
As far as the million nurse march goes... Brian you admitted in your last posts that allnurses.com is profitable for you and as I see it anything that promotes allnurses.com and increases hits to the site makes it(allnurses.com) more profitable. At least that is my perception. So again, if my perception is wrong, forgive me in advance...

The Million Nurse website will not be promoting allnurses.com. The site is in a very rough draft stage right now, there are some test links right now that link to allnurses.com. Please aleast wait till the site is active to start picking it apart Currently I have set up a forum on this BB for discussions about the march, and there are links to the discussions. If this is what you are referring to as promoting allnurses.com, this is not manipulating nurses to turn a profit as you mentioned in a previous post. It is simply providing a communication service for nurses to discuss things. If more people visit the BB because of the discussion, great! But that was not the agenda, it was to help nurses communicate and by having the discussion on this BB it will get more notice.. If you still see that as a manipulative self serving act, so be it. We all have the rights to our own opinions. I hope this helps you understand.

I think this Thread is getting of the topic?

------------------

Brian Short

https://allnurses.com

It's how nurses surf the web!

Mijourney · Sep 29, 2000

Hi,

I am one of the nurses who endorses nursing as a career option. However, I love nursedude's "out of the box" thinking on conditions in nursing practice (I've indicated this under another topic). As a recovering status quo nurse (like a recovering addict) on many issues, this thinking has reinvigorated me. I think that, nursedude, you are on target with much of your assessment of nursing. I may not always agree with everything written, but that is the beauty of this bb-being allowed the right to express a variety of opinions within reason. I am glad, nursedude, that you cleared up for me the fact that you still care about patients despite your issues with the profession. I got the mistaken impression that you only cared about the money. I acknowledge that I have not read every little dotted i or t written even though I enjoy reading posts. Therefore, you may have written that you are in favor of quality patient care as well as salary and benefits commensurate with the working conditions. I do wish that you would consider getting involved in nurse activism as I asked under another topic. In addition to this forum, perhaps you could consider becoming a consultant-teaching nurses methods of assertiveness which would have a positive effect on nursing's level of professionalism. I will write that I support your suggestion that a nurse strike may be needed to get attention. For sure, a massive strike will put health and medical services on hold. Maybe there could be a strike and march orchestrated on the same day. The danger in striking is that inevitably, the AHA will trump us with replacements from other countries as a poster suggested under another topic.

nursedude · Sep 30, 2000

Okay Brian, I stand corrected... I also am sorry if I offended you with anything I wrote.

However, (and most likely the part that will crack you up,) you mentioned: "Not all forums are posted on the main page. There are only about 5 or six of the more popular forums listed, this forum was not one of them." Just for the heck of it, which one of those "more popular" forums are you regarding? I'm asking because this thread alone has had 170 replies alone - more than any other thread as far as I can tell... So "evil scheme" or not I still think it's odd that a thread with over 170 replies is not one of the "more popular".

Also, thanks for letting it (this thread)make it to the homepage.

As far as the million nurse march goes... Brian you admitted in your last posts that allnurses.com is profitable for you and as I see it anything that promotes allnurses.com and increases hits to the site makes it(allnurses.com) more profitable. At least that is my perception. So again, if my perception is wrong, forgive me in advance...

(I know, I crack you up )

rncountry · Sep 30, 2000

Nursedude, I can see you are vocal in your views, I believe that to be a good thing. I just wanted to know whether you were willing to take your vocalizing further. Please understand me when I say that. I do not actively nurse anywhere, do not plan on actively nursing unless some real change somes into the health care system. I agree fully with your assessment on what is happening and frankly that is why I am not working. I am starting my own business, whether I can make it profitabe is another question, but I figure I worked like hell to get through nursing school with two kids ages 5 and 3 at the time, and I already know what 60 and 70 hour workweeks are, so if I'm going to do that much for someone else why not try it for myself, plus I can put in alot of those hours at home. So you see I have opted out, but I feel passionate enough about what is happening to the patient population that I feel it is time for nurses to stand up and say something TOGETHER, alone you may accomplish a bit of something, but together we many accomplish alot. You may disagree with me, a few thousand woman marching what can they accomplish? Well that all depends on whether we are able to bring the issues into the public debate. There was a time when nobody thought that women would get the right to vote too. However there were enough assertive and I won't shut up women out there that after a large number of years women's right to vote was secured. At present both presidental candidates actively work to get a womens vote. I believe that a few thousand women can make a difference if they want to bad enough. I know the question is do they want it bad enough. Only time will tell that. If you no longer work as a full time nurse but you continue to come to this forum it makes me think that you feel passionate about the issues facing nursing, otherwise why bother sharing your views? Are you willing to roll up your sleeves and help put something together? I have listened to enough bitching and moaning in the breakroom, what you are voicing is certainly not a revelation to anybody that hasn't decided to stick their head in the sand and pretend that nothing is going on. The difference is that you are a bit more in the face about how you feel. That makes me feel that you would be a good activist for change. Maybe I am wrong about that, but if you really feel that there are issues that need to be addressed, don't you think that it would be better to get off your soapbox and quit yelling into the wind and do something to actively make a difference? By the way the MNM merchandize was an idea so that money could be raised to support the things it is going to take to put on a protest march. I realize that you may have a different take from me entirely, but I really hope that you want to become involved and put the energy you seem to have into something that may create a spark, no matter how many shows a news magazine may do about the problems it won't matter, and it won't mean a tinkers damn if papers like the Tribune write that people are being killed if nurses do not unite and state the same. Then people may listen. If they realize that the nurse taking care of them after open heart may be on her 8th day of 12 hour shifts, or the nurse who is taking care of their premature infant is so exhausted he can't think straight anymore than maybe it may cause enough fear of what is happening that people outside of the health care system create a clamour too. Who would have thought a few years ago that the tobacco industry would be running, or that gun co. would be under fire themselves. Isn't it possible that we as nurses can't find a way for insurance companies to also sweat? or to find a way to shame the health care system into not only making nurse to patient reasonable, but into providing an appropriate wage, benefits and retirement? Maybe you will only laugh and think I have a screw loose, I however think that anything can be accomplished if you want it bad enough. Can't is not in my vocubulary. I believe anything can be done if enough people want it to be. Wanna roll up your sleeves?

Sabra · Oct 2, 2000

I don't think I would have chosen the title Nursing is pathetic. However, my view point on all of this is nurses are under valued because we under value ourselves, by accepting low salaries, doing without, making do without and allowing hospitals and others alike to treat us like second class, worthless citizens.

My opinion is we need a strong, national nurses union, with no hospital administrators or management nurses on board. Management nurses are administrators and no longer see the problems on the units.

However, I see the problems already by the view points on this discussion board. Most won't take a stand and unite as one body to lobby for rights of patient care, adequate benefits and salary.

Physicians have a union, although it's called an association and deny it is a Union, but they are strong lobbyists. It's called the AMA.

Too many of our own profession, still see nurses as handmaidens as proven by some of our own here who think the patient comes first. My point is if we are not happy, stressed out, burned out, injured or ill from the career we have chosen, how can we give the best nursing care we can? This is not about selfishness but self caring, a concept foreign to many nurses. We all are too used to taking care of others to take care of ourselves.

Mijourney · Oct 2, 2000

You go rncountry! I second your post. Best wishes to your new venture.

[This message has been edited by Mijourney (edited October 01, 2000).]

Mijourney · Oct 2, 2000

Originally posted by Sabra:
I don't think I would have chosen the title Nursing is pathetic. However, my view point on all of this is nurses are under valued because we under value ourselves, by accepting low salaries, doing without, making do without and allowing hospitals and others alike to treat us like second class, worthless citizens.

My opinion is we need a strong, national nurses union, with no hospital administrators or management nurses on board. Management nurses are administrators and no longer see the problems on the units.

However, I see the problems already by the view points on this discussion board. Most won't take a stand and unite as one body to lobby for rights of patient care, adequate benefits and salary.

Physicians have a union, although it's called an association and deny it is a Union, but they are strong lobbyists. It's called the AMA.

Too many of our own profession, still see nurses as handmaidens as proven by some of our own here who think the patient comes first. My point is if we are not happy, stressed out, burned out, injured or ill from the career we have chosen, how can we give the best nursing care we can? This is not about selfishness but self caring, a concept foreign to many nurses. We all are too used to taking care of others to take care of ourselves.

Hi Sabra. I agree with your posts as I do many others. Like I have acknowledged my misinterpretations to with nursedude, I believe some of my points have been taken out of context. I'm all for increased wages in nursing. I would not support proactive nurse activism if I wasn't. To my knowledge, most nurses can't afford to pursue the American (or what ever country they are from) dream and live a comfortable lifestyle unless there are two wage earners in the family making a decent salary or the individual nurse working alot of OT and/or an extra job. People who work in nursing don't get paid nearly enough for all the hazards faced and the expectations. However, I introduced myself to this bb originally writing that I felt that the administration of health and medical care should be a ministry and not an industry. I have pretty much stuck with that theme throughout my journey on this bb. In reference to your points about unions, I think the fact that nursing has a diversity of educational backgrounds impedes our ability to unionize under one umbrella when groups like the ANA is supporting BSN as entry level and as a requirement for their certification exams, and we posters can't even agree on standards for nursing practice entry.

sailorgirl · Oct 10, 2000

Nursedude Late in sending a reply, I have read many letters regarding nursing care, I can identify with many of those letters. Some say leave nursing, take a break. I am a diploma nurse, been a nurse for 39 years worked part time while raising a family, then ended up divorced and finishing raising a family. I mention this because most people cannot take a break, financally it would really hurt. I would suggest to the people out there who are disatisfied to, if possibe, seek another career, or get additional education in your field. If you will notice that's what a lot of nurses are doing. This way they don't have to do patient care, have weekends and holidays off. I have had many nurses tell me that is why they left, were sick of the politics and the lack of respect by administration and the physicans, and they just got tired of patient care and the anger and hostility of the patients themselves and the family members, more and more families want 1:1 care for their loved ones and they don't understand that we have many patients to take care of. Of course the bottom line in health care is $$$$$$$, not the patients, even if the lip service CEO's and other chiefs say different, they are out covering their butt, and it trickles on down to the rest of the administrative staff. What is really frightening is I'm 60 years old and I don't have a clue who will take care of me when I'm in the hospital, although I will fight to get out of the facility as soon as possible. Incidentally nursedude, I graduated from a small hopital in Pgh.

kromag · Oct 17, 2000

I am a new to this BB, but I felt the urge to add my $.02. Regarding "professional" the administrators pulled the dictionary out for the RNs when we felt that we should be payed for carrying a pager and responding 24/7, we said we are licensed professionals and deserve to be compensated for additional work. They said the dictionary says "professional only means that you get paid, anyone with a job is a professional." They didn't want to hear that about the licensed part that makes a difference. We all basically said that we would leave enmass if it came down to adding that pager to our job descriptions and that's when they backed down. So much for being professional.

P.S. The government is the worst job that I've ever had (thankfully, I don't work there anymore, yeehaa).