Nursing Grades

DavidFR, BSN, MSN, RN · Jan 27, 2004

Originally posted by bizzymum919

I know a lot of people here with BSN's who are complete rubbish and would not know the first thing to do when dealing with a person with MRSA which is something quite basic, but that deals with actually touching a patient. I get tired of hearing that when they are an RN they will no longer have to bathe and turn patients because that is the nurse's assistant's job.

You are so right. Academic qualifications do not maketh nurse!

I speak as somebody educated to masters degree level - My BSc and my MSc did loads for me in terms of my own personal growth, sense of achievement etc. They are not essentials to my being a nurse.

In France most nurses don't have university degrees and are gobsmacked when they find I have a masters and that that's quite normal for a UK nurse. They frankly, don't see the point. They pride themselves more here on their practical skills and technical ability. Often because of low numbers of registered nurses around (there is a shortage in France), you'll find you're preoccupied with the technical things (drugs, dressings, ECG's, bloods etc.) and don't get time for the washes, pressure area care etc. which are left to support workers (aide soignantes), but I don't see French nurses running away from the basic care like many UK nurses do. Many UK nurses today think they're training directly for a managerial role, which I find very sad. I find French student nurses really want to be NURSES and have a passion for direct care. I think that's been a little lost in the UK where we value being able to quote post-modern theorists more than being able to clean up a wet bed.

MiladySkye · Jan 27, 2004

I have found out that UK no longer accepts anything less than a BSN. :-( Wish now that I spoke French! There was a lovely place called Saintes that I visited a couple of years ago, located south of Cherbourg. If I spoke the language, that's where I would go!

I am getting frustrated with the UK's attitude about requiring nothing less than a BSN when they are so short of nurses. To top that off, they do have the equivalent to an LPN in their nursing heirarchy, but refuse to recognise my 20 years of experience as an LPN as worthy of any recognition. Pretty sad really, when you think about the quality of care needed there as well as the need for good hand-on nursing and people skills, of which I have a great abundance of. Maybe will have to scrap the idea of moving there, though I do love Somerset.

Whisper · Jan 27, 2004

Originally posted by DavidFR
I find French student nurses really want to be NURSES and have a passion for direct care. I think that's been a little lost in the UK where we value being able to quote post-modern theorists more than being able to clean up a wet bed. [/b]

I am an Enlish nursing student, and am currently working towards my BSc... I wanted to do the Diploma, but was unable to due to a limited number of places on the course.

I have found that nurses treat me differently when they find out I am a degree student, I am always told to stop emptying the linen skips, and to look at how to manage beds. Which to be honest, scares me. I want to be a nurse not a manager, and at this moment in time, I am begining to doubt the point in finishing my training. I find my p/time work as an auxillary more rewarding than management! I am begining to see my (potential) degree as a stumbling block to being a nurse.

Maybe I would be better off saving the £80, and putting it towards a ferry ticket?

Mike RGN · Jan 27, 2004

Originally posted by MiladySkye
I am getting frustrated with the UK's attitude about requiring nothing less than a BSN when they are so short of nurses. To top that off, they do have the equivalent to an LPN in their nursing heirarchy, but refuse to recognise my 20 years of experience as an LPN as worthy of any recognition. Pretty sad really, when you think about the quality of care needed there as well as the need for good hand-on nursing and people skills, of which I have a great abundance of. Maybe will have to scrap the idea of moving there, though I do love Somerset.

I am a bit confused about the requirement of a BSN to nurse in the UK, I accept that at some training establisments the end result is a degree in Nursing but at many a diploma is the end result.

Entry into nurse training is via both academic and vocational qualifications and potentially is open to all with the desire to suceed.

As to not recognising your 20 years of experience as a LPN ( which I assume is the same as our nursing auxillaries), I feel any employer would be stupid not to value this wealth of experience.

MiladySkye · Jan 27, 2004

Thanks for your reply, Mike. (And David!)

As for the UK not accepting anything less than a BSN, this is information I got when I called the NMC, also the NHS Careers division, after failing to get a response to my e-mail. They will not allow US nurses to register with them unless they have a BSN Degree. You can't get a work permit until you are resistered. Vicious circle, really.

I can honestly say that I have done far more clinical nursing than many of the Registered Nurses here, with experience in C-lines, PICC lines, starting IV's, etc. . . I'm currently taking care of an infant with a trach on a Bipap with Primordial Dwarfism in their home. I also presently work at a Retirement Community with over 1,000 residents as an Emergency Response Nurse (only one nurse on duty each shift) and am not only responsible for the residents, but the employees and visitors as well. I worked with Short Gut Syndrome children (mostly 1-4 year olds) for years, and even worked in the Neonatal ICU at a Women's Hospital. I have very good assessment and organisational skills, am a dependable and dedicated nurse and feel that this requirement of a 4 year degree (it's actually a three year, but we don't have a three year degree here. It's either 2 or 4) is unfair.

Perhaps I should be taking up the job of petitioning the government/NMC there to recognise LPN qualifications!!!

MiladySkye · Jan 27, 2004

Whisper,

I sympathise with you. Avoiding a situation like yours is exactly why I went for my LPN in the States, so that I was ensured the patient contact and care that I loved (which was the reason I went into nursing in the first place). Unfortunately, it has limited where I can go in the world. If I were to lose that contact with patients and all the hands-on care that I give, I would rather not nurse at all.

Besides, it doesn't take a nursing degree to manage beds, does it???? Some organsational manager could manage that without a nursing degree (which is what they often do here in the States).

Whisper · Jan 28, 2004

I am not sure, but I think that to move any higher than an E grade, to move to an F grade role as a sister, the criteria often state that you must have a degree.

I am not sure if this is a national trend, or just within my trust, I am sure there is someone on this board who will be able to correct me!

Whisper

Mike RGN · Jan 28, 2004

Miladyskye

I was not aware of the restriction the NMC have placed on the US nurses - I would normally swear at this point because of the lack of foresight at this point by the governing bodies. I feel that your experience would be an asset, we need nurses with commitment to the job.

Whisper

In your case i fear what your saying could soon be the case, sadly the drive towards nurses becoming professionals, the governing bodies have this idea that a degree etc proves your a good nurse (again I would normally swear at this point).

I know of many good nurses who I would class as being professional with and without degrees. I personally hold no ground with them we should be employing the nurse not the bit of paper.

The are some innovated employers who do think beyond bits of paper otherwise I would not have the job I do. I have no degree or diploma and have no intention of doing one either.

Maybe we all should use the extra money the NMC is asking from us to register to take french lessons and buy a ferry ticket.

bizzymum919 · Jan 28, 2004

Perhaps the reasoning why the UK is only wanting BSN nurses from the US is because of the 3 yr program requirement. There are 3 yr diploma programs in the US that are associated with certain hospitals and I think that would fall under the requirements. However the US is phasing out the diploma programs and going for the quicker 2 yr ASN programs and 4 yr BSN programs.

Elaine

fergus51 · Jan 28, 2004

This is happening in Canada as well, despite the shortage. A few provinces already require the BSN for their new nurses.

mrsi1969 · Mar 5, 2009

Can someone please tell me how the RGN qualifications work i.e. RN1 RN2 etc and what qualifications would be equivalent to each level

Thanks

oldbean · Mar 5, 2009

In the UK nurses train for 3 years full time to earn a Degree or Diploma in nursing. The academic/practicle split is 50/50 and following successful completion of their studies students are eligable to Register as a RN in their chosen branch (adult,child,mental health or learning disabilties). The level of education (Degree or Diploma) doesn't influenece their registration status. RN1 refers to a registered nurse. RN2 refers to a enrolled nurse. Enrolled nurses are no longer trained. Training of enrolled nurses ceased in the late eighties early nineties. Enrolled nurses trained for 2 years as oppose to 3 and they traditionally kept a bedside role carrying out essential nursing care. Many EN's converted to RN level however some EN's continue to practice, they are now able to call themselves RN (level2) or RN2's.