Nursing diagnosis "altered energy field"

SFCardiacRN · Feb 18, 2006

I think the Wason's test is about how scientific one's thinking is. From a purely scientific view only two cards need to be turned over to test the hypothesis "as worded". I also wanted to turn all 4. This may be why scientists make poor care givers and care givers make poor scientists.

chadash · Feb 18, 2006

Well, actually, I thought I was talking about science, or, research anyway. Ya know, actually testing and re-testing a theory to make sure it generally holds true, not just in a few specific cases. Isn't that what makes valid research? Not just selecting the cases you want to test to prove your theory, but actually getting a large random sample to see if the theory can be DISproved? I should check out this wason and try to understand more what you're talking about. It seems to me that the method in your question is deliberately skewing the sample in favor of the hypothesis. That doesn't sound like very sound science or research. Just my opinion.

Oh dear

chadash · Feb 18, 2006

You have misunderstood wason's cards. please research.

chadash · Feb 18, 2006

Bye guys!

kadokin, ASN, RN · Feb 18, 2006

I have a question that may clear up some of my misunderstanding of nursing. Is nursing practice based on something different than medical practice, that is, as in a what physicians practice? Is there different criteria for determining the effacacy of therapies, etc?
Thanks!

Nursing is a SCIENCE. Based on research. It seeks to improve the lives of individuals who suffer from acute and chronic disease processes and assist those individuals and their significant others in coping w/those disease processes. The science of nursing also seeks to assist individuals in the pursuit of maintaining their health. To some, nursing is also an "art". It deepens and becomes richer as it is practiced and requires the individual to give part of themselves to the practice in order to lift it above the merely scientific and make it human. I am not a Physician, so I can only tell you some things about medicine that I have observed. Medicine is a science. It is based on research. To some, it is an "art" as it deepens and becomes richer as it is practiced and requires the individual to give part of themselves to the practice in order to lift it above the merely scientific and make it human. In both nursing and medicine, individuals conduct research to improve the discipline and disseminate this research amongst their peers for scrutiny, edification and to improve the discipline in general. As w/many sciences, such as psychoolgy or sociology (as a previous poster pointed out), testing theories and methods in vivo rarely produces a consistent result as "all other things" are never "equal", especially when you are working w/human beings. In hospital settings, Nurses tend to interact w/pts minute to minute while Physicians tend to interact w/pts day to day. Nurses usually treat an individual's reaction to the disease process. Physicians usually treat the disease process. These roles of timing and approach often dovetail in the delivery of competent healthcare with Physicans often treating pts minute to minute and treating reactions to disease processes (and vice-versa w/nursing, man, this is getting long).

How's that for an answer?

By the way, what is your discipline and why did you choose to join allnurses?

Just curious. :nurse:

kadokin, ASN, RN · Feb 18, 2006

Fritzer, you make good points. Though I've felt compelled to defend science based nursing I do have an open mind. I think the mind is a wonderful thing, barely understood with great potential for self healing. I've seen incredible feats by Tibetan monks and Sufis. Their ability to control metabolism, pain, brain waves and the like is nothing short of miraculous. But these men have spent lifetimes of austere living in constant meditation learning this control. My problem is nurses reading a book and taking a weekend workshop in TT and declaring themselves healers. Though people may have energy fields, there is no data (at this time) to support a link to disease or ability to adjust fields to treat disease. Perhaps someday TT will become a part of nursing process but we must be careful in prematurely adding therapies that may be more harmful than beneficial. (Polio leg casting is a good example and it was a nurse using scientific process that showed how harmful it was.) We do this through rigorous scientific research based on measurable outcomes. If TT is that beneficial, what is the problem with proper studies before we include it in our repertoire?

Yeah, that!

chadash · Feb 18, 2006

I think the Wason's test is about how scientific one's thinking is. From a purely scientific view only two cards need to be turned over to test the hypothesis "as worded". I also wanted to turn all 4. This may be why scientists make poor care givers and care givers make poor scientists.

I am not sure that this is a truism. As someone who is not a scientist, but is only a caregiver, I never the less can not discount logic. Think about Wason s cards for a second. The hypothesis can only be disproved or proved by two cards. I dont understand what is so hard about that. that is simply fact. This illustration has nothing to do with opinion or method. It has no bearing on TT or energy fields: it was only a comment on logic. Check it out!

kadokin, ASN, RN · Feb 18, 2006

Just this morning, I was in the ICU talking with a 2 day post-op CABG Pt. He was feeling well, no pain, looking forward to going home. But something was nagging me. He had a "fearful" look in his eyes and seemed a touch "ashen". Two hours later he coded. Massive runs of V-tach with BP bottoming out. Took over an hour to bring him back. Was my nagging feeling intuition or observation or both. I don't know! Sometimes I feel like patients can sense when something is wrong and an observant nurse can pickup on that sense. I have had that same nagging feeling and nothing went wrong. Weird, huh.

I believe your post echoes the last one by Fritzer, although stated in a different way. I also believe you are not giving your self enough credit for your scientific, fact-based approach. The pt. had a "fearful" look in his eyes. The pt seemed a touch "ashen". Man, if that is not raw data, I don't know what is. If I am not mistaken, there have been studies on this phenomenon of "nursing instinct" and it boils down to the nurse picking up on subtle signals of deterioration that are just TOO subtle to be measured. BUT WE KNOW THEM WHEN WE SEE THEM! Maybe we should create some objective scales such as the one used for pt's perception of pain for these subtle signs of deterioration such as: SKIN COLOR: Pale to Ruddy on a scale of 1 to 10; or the same thing for PT DEMEANOR: Cheerful to Fearful on a scale of 1 to 10. How's that for a research project? :nurse:

chadash · Feb 18, 2006

Some one who has an education beyond high school, pleases save evidence based nursing. I am a person who is totally in tuned to nuances, feelings and intuition, don't get me wrong guys! I am very religious, and all that! But by golly, don't leave it to some much maligned Nursing assistant no less to save nursing from the hockus pokus and magic(ok this is just allnurses, but wow, what is at stake here!) ! Get on the stick! This is supposed to be a science! You all have the education, the assertiveness and what not! You all got what it takes! I have worked for you all, I know you know more than me! Stick up for science, for cold hard fact and grow some '''''

kadokin, ASN, RN · Feb 18, 2006

Some one who has an education beyond high school, pleases save evidence based nursing. I am a person who is totally in tuned to nuances, feelings and intuition, don't get me wrong guys! I am very religious, and all that! But by golly, don't leave it to some much maligned Nursing assistant no less to save nursing from the hockus pokus and magic(ok this is just allnurses, but wow, what is at stake here!) ! Get on the stick! This is supposed to be a science! You all have the education, the assertiveness and what not! You all got what it takes! I have worked for you all, I know you know more than me! Stick up for science, for cold hard fact and grow some '''''

WHHAA?

chadash · Feb 18, 2006

WHHAA?

Could you be more specific?

chadash · Feb 18, 2006

Nursing is a SCIENCE. Based on research. It seeks to improve the lives of individuals who suffer from acute and chronic disease processes and assist those individuals and their significant others in coping w/those disease processes. The science of nursing also seeks to assist individuals in the pursuit of maintaining their health. To some, nursing is also an "art". It deepens and becomes richer as it is practiced and requires the individual to give part of themselves to the practice in order to lift it above the merely scientific and make it human. I am not a Physician, so I can only tell you some things about medicine that I have observed. Medicine is a science. It is based on research. To some, it is an "art" as it deepens and becomes richer as it is practiced and requires the individual to give part of themselves to the practice in order to lift it above the merely scientific and make it human. In both nursing and medicine, individuals conduct research to improve the discipline and disseminate this research amongst their peers for scrutiny, edification and to improve the discipline in general. As w/many sciences, such as psychoolgy or sociology (as a previous poster pointed out), testing theories and methods in vivo rarely produces a consistent result as "all other things" are never "equal", especially when you are working w/human beings. In hospital settings, Nurses tend to interact w/pts minute to minute while Physicians tend to interact w/pts day to day. Nurses usually treat an individual's reaction to the disease process. Physicians usually treat the disease process. These roles of timing and approach often dovetail in the delivery of competent healthcare with Physicans often treating pts minute to minute and treating reactions to disease processes (and vice-versa w/nursing, man, this is getting long).
How's that for an answer?
By the way, what is your discipline and why did you choose to join allnurses?
Just curious.

You got me! I am a Nursing assistant!

You probably didnt know that my lack of education has been a subject of discussion earlier in this post, so I am officially disqualified from having an opinion!