Importing Foreign-trained nurses - page 7

Importing Foreign-trained Nurses Comparison of Pending Legislation on Nursing Immigration Issues 11/05/01 "The American Nurses Association (ANA) has posted a chart which compares two bills... Read More

  1. by   Grant Morgan
    Larry...very good article.

    I'm not too sure of how your training goes in other countries, but here in South Africa...the government pays for nurses to study and hence we have thousands of people aplying for the posts.

    They are given a basic salary to study and work, but the catch is...if you fail....your're out for good. When I was a student there were only 50 posts available, but we had 17 000 applicants which were narrowed down by a very careful screening process.

    I don't think we will be short no nurses here....but the government is trying to stop nurses from leaving the country because firstly they are losing a great deal of qualified and very well experienced nurses, and secondly they are losing large amounts of money because they paid for their education.
  2. by   mcl4
    [QUOTE]Originally posted by -jt
    [B]Importing Foreign-trained Nurses

    Comparison of Pending Legislation on Nursing Immigration Issues

    "The American Nurses Association (ANA) has posted a chart which compares two bills currently pending in Congress, with an existing law that affects the status of "temporary nurse visas" issued to aliens."

    Due to heavy lobbying by the hospital associations, federal legislation is now in the works to increase importation of foreign-trained nurses & make it easier to recruit more of them from other countries.

    House legislation sponsor:

    Sponsor: Rep Jackson-Lee D Texas

    Senate legislation sponsor

    Mr. BROWNBACK R Kansas(for himself, Mr. GRAHAM, and Mr. HELMS) introduced the following bill; which was read twice and referred to the Committee on the Judiciary Lee, Sheila(introduced 8/1/2001)
  3. by   Whisper
    I am a student nurse in the UK, and some of my best teachers are those who moved into the UK. I never realised the huge scope this topic had in America. When i qualify in the UK I will earn the same amount, or less that I get per hour working at MacDonads, allthough i will be expected to work a lot more hours!
    Which is why when we get recruiters from the USA and Canada offereing us the chance to earn four time that it makes it a real choice. As long as the quality of nursing is the same, I can not see why there should be a problem.
  4. by   Norbert Holz
    Unemployed American Nurse in Tampa Florida Needs Work !

    Looking for a "job"(pratice) in Tampa Florida is a very daunting task. I have been licensed for over 7 years. I have worked in a wide variety of settings.

    First and foremost, nurses in Tampa are a dime a dozen! Compensation and benefits are all quite low here compaired to the local income necessary to sustain an AMERICAN middle class life style (on one income).

    Looking at the employment ads in the Tampa Tribune newspaper indicate that there are few current openings for nurses in the area. Internet searches fare even worse. The ones presented are mostly for night shifts (I really can not adjust to working nights) seasonal or temporary staffing. "Compatable pay rates" are quoted later being under $20 hour. There is no shortage of nurses here.

    Secondly, there are many hospitals and employment settings quite close to my home that are considered to have "underserved" or rural populations. These entities are able to recruit forein nurses to supplement thier inability to "find" locals nurses to "pratice" in their settings. The "underserved or rural populations" in this area are simply not valid! The reasons they are "underserved" are because the employers choose to "under-serve" them.

    Finding a job (praticing nursing). has been very difficult ever since I was first licensed. Imported nurses were in direct competition with me for every job I applied for.

    I do not begrudge imported nurses! They are here due to a wide variety of factors. I do take issue with the FACT that I am unable to engage in a pratice setting that will allow me to earn a consistient Floridian American middle class standard living!

    Perhaps if a ready supply of imported nurses were unavaliable employers would raise compensation, provide more flexability in pratice, provide better training to exsisting nurses and even give respect for the lowly asrn.
  5. by   Larry
    Well Grant when student nurses are in training here they receive a bursary of around 5400 and that has to go towards their living costs and accommodation. It simply isn't enough in a country with a high standard of living. To supplement their income many students work as care assistants. Others appreciate large debts. - the salary after training is equally poor when you consider that other graduates can get a lot more money.

    Also there are plans not to give this bursary to foreign students.

    That's why there is a nursing shortage.

    As for South Africa we hear that there is a lot of Aids there - so I guess your nurses are needed
  6. by   Larry
    Well Whisper I read your posting - I don't know your reasons for going into nursing, but honestly the US is not that good, asnd therefore I beg to differ with the large American presence.

    Firstly in the UK if you decided to stay you can get 16+ an hour in regular hosptal work in London working with an Agency. But you would be wise to work first for at least a year in the NHS.

    I stayed in Uk for three years after qualifying and then worked in Israel as a nurse ( for lower wages but an ideal) - then worked in Paris, France for two years.

    I can understand your eventual wish to travel as the RGN is also a passport.

    As for the US I worked illegally on a farm there in 1975 and there is a big difference between rich and poor. Dollars do not grow on trees.
  7. by   prn nurse
    The thing I hate about working with Filapina nurses is that they always talk in Filapino. I work the night shift on a large unit. Our hospital has about an equal number of nurses from the Phillipines, Nigeria, and India. The Indian nurses have their own separate dialects that they use when on break. But , once the administrative folks have gone home for the day, the conversation from the Filapina is gone for the day too. The charge Filapina nurse will discuss my patients' with the others , but not in a language I understand. And when a doctor comes on the floor and complains about a Filapina nurses patient care/orders, we never have a clue as to what happened. It is discussed in Filapina only. Yes, we have asked them to speak English at work. No, they do not. It is rude.
  8. by   Whisper
    Larry, at this moment in time, I have no urge to work in America, I envy those who can leave their home land and give up a way of life, I couldn't stand to be that far away form all my relatives. I was just comparing the fact that that they get paid more than I will, I live in the North. So I will get a lot less than London.

    Also I don't get that much Bursary money,as I am a Degree student and only Foreign students or Diploma students are elligble for the higher rate of bursary It is easy to forget that we are all on the same course!
    Last edit by Whisper on Jun 28, '02
  9. by   reggiedoc
    Dear PRN nurse,

    I hope this email finds you well. I can certainly understand your exasperation over foreign nurses speaking their own languages in the workplace. I am a foreign nurse myself. Yet I can empathize with your experience. I come from the southern part of the Philippines and we speak a different language than those that come from other parts of the country. On one hand, I feel excluded, disrespected, slighted and unappreciated when people speak a language that is foreign to me in my presence. On the other hand, I feel more at home, secure, connected and relatable to my own people when I speak my native language with them. Where do we draw the line? Sometimes, it is not even a matter of choice but of inclination. I even catch myself stopping in the middle of a conversation to switch to English when I see non-English speakers within hearing distance. At times, speaking in one's native language operates in the subconscious level. Of course, I want to make a distinction between people who deliberately engage in a non-English conversation to exclude, taunt, gossip or manipulate others and those that do it because it is second nature to them.

    I have learned to be conscious of my environment and be sensitive to others but I still find myself messing up sometimes. I think there is a right time and a right place for everything so that both exercises do not lead to division, disunity or resentment. Indeed, it is rude when done without regard to the environment and/or people hearing the conversation but is also a demonstration of one's individuality, ethnicity and uniqueness as a human being. I think the foreign nurse should strive to strike a balance.

    Very sincerely,
    Last edit by reggiedoc on Dec 1, '01
  10. by   -jt
    <As long as the quality of nursing is the same, I can not see why there should be a problem.>

    I thought it was clear but let me say it again:

    The problem is not with YOU or other foreign-trained nurses. The problem is that HOSPITALS are using you to help them IGNORE the reasons why US nurses wont work in them.

    It is not YOU that is the problem. It is that the hospitals refuse to listen to what we are saying is driving us out and keeping us out. They refuse to make the necessary improvements to attract and retain nurses & just expect to hop a plane, bring over enough of you and your colleagues, and that will solve the problem and solve it much more cheaply.

    In the meantime, the nursing profession here dies out and your country's nursing shortage worsens. And you are here working in the same dangerously abusive, unsafe, demoralizing conditions that we walked out of.

    Instead of looking at themselves and their facilities & thinking of what can they do to make their place one that nurses will want to work in, they are just thinking OK lets go to & get nurses who want to come to America. Bringing over a bunch of other nurses is not going to fix the problems we have, but thats where the hospitals priority, focus, and attention is. THATS the problem.
  11. by
    could I use your post to quote in my paper?? you said it so well and it fits.
  12. by   -jt
    lol. Be my guest! Every little bit helps!
  13. by   Larry
    Well Whisper your facts about the salary of a newly qualified 'D' registered nurse are incorrect. I suggest that if you want to bring in a fact you should quantify it with research, i.e. an article or reference.

    Since the minimum wage is I believe something akin to that level - I cannot believe the amount in question. I was under the opinion that nurses outside London make a minimum of 15,445 a year ( / ).

    Indeed I think that they make more than this basic taking into account unsociable hours, weekend work and other benefits from working in NHS.

    I am at present myself working as a D grade agency in London and am making 30,000 a year.

    The present government will raise taxes to improve the salary of health professionals - and I feel that nurses wages will go up to that of level police entrants.

    Things can only get better.

    I think that nurses starting pay will more to 18k and in London 23k.

    From your comments I think you are gettting confused with A grade Health Care Assistants salaries.