Dozens of nurses at Northern California hospital balk at wearing locators

Nurses Activism

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DrEdwina

11 Posts

So how about locators on the MDs?

On the Suits?

On the CEO's?

What, aren't they important too?

Hospitals, Clinics and Agencies would save a lot of money if they did use locators on MD's. It would be interesting where their locations may reveal.

jmgrn65, RN

1,344 Posts

Specializes in cardiac/critical care/ informatics.

Ok we have used the locaters for many years, most of the smaller units like ICU's don't wear them cause you are easier found. I have never heard of it being used as a method to know how long it takes you to complete a task, time spent in a room etc. As far as I know it is just so that a nurse, cna or unit clerk can look and find the individual, they are seeking. It does not pick up while you are in the bathroom or off the unit, unless you are on another unit. they are only on units not lab, cafe, offices etc.

Some of the posts i have read seem very far fetched, what I don't understand is one of the posters, has the locaters, pager and a cell phone a little overkill.

the major complaint I have is when someone finds you in a patients room and they call you in there, if the patient is resting they aren't any more, and they can do all page so it calls in all rooms and that wakes patients up.

It is convience.

BamaBound2bRN

202 Posts

Some of the posts i have read seem very far fetched

Thank you to someone who has actual experience :yelclap: And considering some of the personal e-mails I have received on this "PARANOIA" was an understatement!

ZASHAGALKA, RN

3,322 Posts

Specializes in Critical Care.

I don't think I'm being overly paranoid. Why on earth would you install a system with tracking features if you had no intention of using them? Especially since that is the primary function of the system - finding your co-workers is as simple as having a cell phone on vibrate and much less intrusive to care. And turning off the call light automatically is just a gimmick.

Why would you install such a system? Because it's major selling point is increasing efficiency by tweaking the productivity of your staff. That is exactly how it is advertised to hospitals.

Look, I'm not saying that hospital administrations stay up late at night trying to figure out ways to 'get the nurses'. What I'm saying is that an administration that would install this system either doesn't care or doesn't understand their nurses and the powerful assets we are.

All but one of the examples I've given (the potential for lawsuit finger pointing) are examples of abuses of this system actually used by administrators. I've seen them myself, read about them in credible media reports (see the article that started this thread), or have been told about them firsthand by my current co-workers that were subject to these abuses in the past.

It's not enough to say that an administrator certainly wouldn't use these features. Simply arming themselves with the capability is cause enough for concern. The hospital I left over this system was part of a corporation and local management answered my complaints by saying that it was being installed by corporate and that local management had no say in the matter - but they didn't want and wouldn't use the tracking features. I said, fine, I can accept that - just put that in writing. They flatly refused at that point, "Nurses don't dictate policy."

I didn't leave because I was worried about being watched. I left because that system is demeaning and unprofessional. Ultimately, however nefarious or innocent that system might be, installing it sends an overt message about just how poorly management thinks of nurses. And I just can't work for somebody that so undervalues the contributions of their nurses.

~faith,

Timothy.

rstewart

235 Posts

Thank you to someone who has actual experience :yelclap: And considering some of the personal e-mails I have received on this "PARANOIA" was an understatement!

You know Bama, human beings are rather unique members of the animal kingdom; because of our verbal abilities we need not directly experience events to know that they are noxious or dangerous.

BamaBound2bRN

202 Posts

You know Bama, human beings are rather unique members of the animal kingdom; because of our verbal abilities we need not directly experience events to know that they are noxious or dangerous.

Yes, I believe that same comment was said to Columbus, followed by "The World is Flat." I also thought that all sides of an argument must be presented for reasonable people to honestly debate issues? All I am asking is, 1) that people who actually are using the system to give me an input, and 2) don't lump ALL administrators into the "Big Brother" group.

pickledpepperRN

4,491 Posts

ZASHAGALKA Thank you!

They just started this where I occasionally work registry. The sewcretary keeps track of who is wearing which one. If the call light is not answered in two minutes the charge nurse is notified.

I was on a tele unit but an oncology nurse asked, "Could this be a cancer risk?"

For me, I'm not going there again. My meal break was interrupted.

rstewart

235 Posts

yes, i believe that same comment was said to columbus, followed by "the world is flat." i also thought that all sides of an argument must be presented for reasonable people to honestly debate issues? all i am asking is, 1) that people who actually are using the system to give me an input, and 2) don't lump all administrators into the "big brother" group.

when you hear hoof beats, first think horses not zebras.

the devices we are discussing are called tracking devices. they are marketed as a means to increase productivity and efficiency. infinately less expensive alternatives exist to contact/locate nurses or to request help (call light systems, pagers, standard cell phones etc) but those devices do not offer timed tracking logs; indeed they are not unlike the devices used to monitor criminals on house arrest.

now then. you might argue spacenurse's temporary employer purchased their tracking system because of their concern that nurses are not properly compensated for meal breaks which have been interrupted. on the other hand i note that her supervisor is notified if she doesn't answer her call light in a prescribed time period. two explanations for a massive capital outlay, but which is the most likely, the most reasonable motivation for the employer?

and nobody said that all administrators have become big brother; but those who purchase electronic systems which log an employee's location minute by minute, even if we assume benevelent motives-------if that doesn't fairly exemplify big brotherism what would?

there is really nothing to debate. employers and employees alike know what tracking devices do-----they track. some employees may feel that the devices are harmless. others may feel that the devices are demeaning, dehumanizing and a blatent invasion of privacy (despite the legal rulings of a distinctly pro business judiciary). and to anyone who has ever worked on a med-surg floor, the potential for misinterpreting/misusing the data is obvious.

now to revisit my initial statement in this post...please keep in mind that i did not suggest we ignore the zebras, but rather that you consider the most common reasonable explanation first. as a pre-nursing student, you have relatively limited knowledge as to what is common in today's health care environment and what is uncommon. if you are able to gain acceptance to a nursing program and if you are able to complete same you just might find that there are reasons for what you characterize as paranoid behavior.

ZASHAGALKA, RN

3,322 Posts

Specializes in Critical Care.

For a mid-sized hospital, it costs a little more than a quarter million dollars to install this system. Cell phones would cost a tenth of that. This isn't about nurses locating nurses. That are far cheaper alternatives if that were the goal. No. Capital expenses of this magnitude have to be justified. These devices are justified as tools to maximize your efficiency. As if you weren't working hard enough.

In fact, my former employer already had cell phones. Their rationale for installing the system was call bell complaints: it would protect the nurses from complaints by justifying that they were indeed being answered. It was for our protection.

Excuse me? Since when do I have to justify that I'm working my tail to the bone. If you have any doubts, come and observe sometime!

The flip side of 'justifying' my work is what happens when administrators - interpreting this data from afar and unaware of the critical thinking that goes into my prioritization - don't think my call bell answer time is justified? What happens when it takes me 15 min to get Mrs. Smith her water because I'm coding or near coding Mr. Jones?? Do you think, in 2 weeks, when the complaint letter comes, that you or administration will know or remember what you were doing during that 15 min?

"Why didn't you answer her call button?!" - "I don't remember, but it must have been important, or I'd of answered it."

I'm sorry, I never intend to have that conversation - at least not in terms of having to justify my time against some computer data that's going to be used as a reprimand because I thought Mr. Jone's V-tach was more important.

But that's my point - this system encourages sequential care over priority care. Why? Because while it can't discriminate what is a priority, it certainly can tell how fast you moved to the next task - and because that is ALL it can measure, that will be the standard that counts. How horribly anti-patient advocate!

To me, it's not only demeaning, it is a direct compromise of one of my primary roles: patient advocacy. My scope of practice simply doesn't take a back seat to management's efficiency priorities!

If management doesn't trust the quality of my work, then they should find somebody that they DO trust, or do it themselves. But then, this isn't about quality, is it? It's about quantity.

These systems are in 25% of hospitals today. They are coming, everywhere. If we don't stand up and make it difficult to implement these systems, then an essential element of our autonomy is going away. We've already lost a large measure of our ability to care - to spend just 10 minutes holding somebody's hand - in the interest of increased efficiency. How much more do we have to give? When is it enough?

Let me tell you the rest of the story of the ICU where I used to work. When I left, I wasn't alone. Now the managers are routinely forced to work night shifts. Despite repeated threatening emails, the rest of the staff (on nights, anyway) have neglected to wear the trackers. Because they can't afford any more defections, those trackers lie useless in a box in the corner of the unit.

Unfortunately, the other floors haven't stood up against these devices. But. We really do have power - if only we reach for it.

Sorry so long.

~faith,

Timothy.

sjb2005

245 Posts

I am all for locators. I am against intrusion in the work place but I must admit, locators work for me. I have worked facilities with and without locators. I am constantly running on my feet trying to find help. I continually forget to manually shut off the call light before I leave the room. I think I need retraining.

ZASHAGALKA, RN

3,322 Posts

Specializes in Critical Care.
I am all for locators. I am against intrusion in the work place but I must admit, locators work for me. I have worked facilities with and without locators. I am constantly running on my feet trying to find help. I continually forget to manually shut off the call light before I leave the room. I think I need retraining.

Simply put, there are far cheaper, more nurse friendly, more patient friendly ways for you to be able to contact your co-workers for help.

~faith,

Timothy.

sjb2005

245 Posts

Enlighten me. Tell me what would be an effective approach to get my employer to implement it. I am PROACTIVE not REACTIVE. What works? (Sometimes we all need guidance)

Simply put, there are far cheaper, more nurse friendly, more patient friendly ways for you to be able to contact your co-workers for help.

~faith,

Timothy.

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