Rehab Success Rate??? - page 3

Hi all: Does anybody have any numbers of the success rate of the substance abuse industry? I simply have no idea and Mr. Google hasn't been that helpful. Thank You all!!!... Read More

  1. by   burtis
    Quote from subee
    Burtis, are you talking about peer assistance or probation in the criminal justice system? I agree that AA is only as good as the group you are in and not for everyone. And I know it's hard for people in rural areas there isn't much choice. However, there are other models that work well for others. I am partial to Smart Recovery.
    Oh yeah no question. It was in response to my inquiry over whether or not one could go to Smart Recovery or something like that. Has to be 12 step, no regard for it's efficacy. I agree with Pittsburgh, at least it's honest but it was shocking nonetheless.
  2. by   subee
    Quote from SpankedInPittsburgh
    Then that's a stacked number. The only people who would relapse when they know they are being monitored are the ones that truly need help & of course those are the ones who are discarded. My version of success is sustained recovery which nobody seems to really care about. As far as people working harder when the license is inactivated, who studied the link between poverty and substance abuse and said the broker you were the more likely you are to stay clean. I'm pretty sure it works the other way
    Most people in the non-punitive model are out of a license for a very short time. As long as they agree to be monitored, they can work as R.N. with individualized restrictions as soon the assessment is complete. Occasionally the license is surrendered for 24 hrs. If the person has already completed tx.
  3. by   aflahe00
    well its not good to be honest but probably higher than say for the public. Addiction recovery overall isnt good at all but perhaps this is because of the lack of resources available and of coarse the stigma. some people, like me, for example didnt know how to get help and also I was scared to death of compromising my career. I was too afraid and for good reason. everyone who truly knows understands this. and then some people just dont want to be clean.
  4. by   malamud69
    Quote from catsmeow1972
    Statistics can be manipulated to say anything you want. I'll say it again. Forced recovery is not recovery. These programs are nothing like what they used to be. Now they do more harm than good
    I am bipolar. Wanna tell me how sitting in AA meetings is gonna help that? I'm glad this stuff helped you or you know people who it helped. Great. I any many more I know have been hurt. There. We're even.
    Sitting in AA meetings actually helps very few people...actual science proves this...oh wait...we can't talk about evidence based practice...can we? It goes against the illogical grain these hokum programs use as a money grab...never drink the kool aide
  5. by   catsmeow1972
    Quote from malamud69
    Sitting in AA meetings actually helps very few people...actual science proves this...oh wait...we can't talk about evidence based practice...can we? It goes against the illogical grain these hokum programs use as a money grab...never drink the kool aide
    Certain meetings help. i found a depression/bipolar support thing. I feel comfortable, I've made some friends, done some activities. there's no chanting or platitudes garbage. It's as far from any 12 step crud as you can get. I lobbied to use it as my meeting requirement and was approved. unfortunately there is only one locally. The others, i'd be driving a couple hours round trip. it makes the AA stuff all the more painful. So I still beat feet from those as soon as I either politely can or when i just can't take it anymore.
    I'll continue to do my time in those things things because as i said above, unlike a large element of these programs, i don't like to lie but as you say, i won't drink the kool-aid. I can only hope that one day, probably not in my lifetime that they'll choke on that kool-aid.
    Despite my personal dislike for the AA/12-step model of recovery (I'll stipulate that it works for some people) my argument is that it is a religious based model that infests a program that uses it in the formulation of requirements for people to retain a state issued license to the exclusion of other forms of support, even to the point that attendance at such a thing (12 step or not) has zero bearing on the participants ability to practice their profession safely or not.
    I'll stop before i start to sound like a legal brief...again....
  6. by   SpankedInPittsburgh
    I really don't see a non-punitive model / edge / component to these programs. If the monitoring programs wanted to ensure we weren't impaired while under them would random screenings accomplish that? Why are people forced to lose their jobs if they are clean? Why do they have to drop out of school? Why do they have to attend the rehab of the monitoring programs choice? I like what the one case manager said "Well, probation isn't about rehabilitation." It's perfect and honest. It's about casting judgment and extracting a pound of flesh from another nurse which is why nurses are so famous for eating their young & piling on whenever possible.
    Last edit by SpankedInPittsburgh on Oct 26, '17
  7. by   DRossy
    I know I already recommended the movie "One Little Pill" to you- I just wanted to add that you can watch it on Amazon. I think you'd really enjoy it. On the description of the movie it says, among other things, that "science has shown that abstinence not only doesn't take away the addiction but, also increases craving. So why has the modality dominated our thought since the 1930's? Why are profitable rehab facilities reluctant to change?" Sounds like everything you're bringing up... Let me know what you think when you've seen it.
  8. by   DRossy
    Also, since you talked about wanting sustained recovery- I recommend you talk to your doctor about Naltrexone; it really does decrease cravings and if you relapse, you can't get drunk, which makes the relapse pretty pointless. Anyway, the movie explains it really well- but, from personal experience I can say, it's a great drug.
  9. by   DRossy
    I also want to tell you a little more about SMART meetings and how they differ from AA. Like I said, they're secular. The framework is based on Albert Ellis's Rational-Emotive Behavioral Therapy; so, it focuses on changing negative and unhealthy thoughts into positive alternatives and adapting good coping skills. Where AA tells people they are powerless over their addictions and they have to turn this over to a higher power, SMART teaches people that they do have power over their behaviors and shifts responsibility back to the person, which is empowering. SMART stands for Self-Management and Recovery Training. It embraces psychology, psychotherapy and science where AA is like a cult with a spiritual foundation. SMART instructors receive training before they are allowed to facilitate a meeting or hold their own group meeting so there is a standard of quality control to the SMART meetings. SMART does not push a one size fits all approach to recovery, people map out their own path to recovery- there are no 12 steps and people aren't pushed to do things they're uncomfortable doing because they're told "it's an essential step." No one is labelled "powerless" in SMART, because like I said, it's about recognizing that it is up to you, recognizing that you are not powerless. There is cross-talk among participants in SMART meetings, so people are talking with one another instead of at one another- so, it's more therapeutic. I don't want to sound anti-AA, it's great that it works for some people but, I don't understand why it's the gold standard when science has proven that their approach is ineffective. Do you think it's because it keeps people running back to a rehab facility every time they relapse because they have committed such a horrible sin and are powerless to regain control on their own? Having people realize the power they do have over their addiction is not profitable... I wish I had some power over my career though, this is such a nightmare. No other field, none does this to people who are struggling with addiction or mental illness- every other field is so much more forgiving and understanding. I never would have imagined that a field that is based on caring for people who are sick or wounded just destroys anyone in the field who becomes sick or wounded. If we had done anything else with our lives none of this would be happening- we wouldn't have lost everything and been publicly shamed- a shame we have to carry for the rest of our lives. It's so terrible, if you leave nursing good luck working anywhere else and if you stay in nursing good luck getting a job- it's just... I have no words to describe my disgust.
  10. by   SpankedInPittsburgh
    Drossy, there is almost no way that I could agree more with your sentiments. I will watch "one little pill" today. I looked for a SMART meeting in Pittsburgh but they don't have any (except in the prison and I can't go to it) but they have one in Greensburg about 40 miles away. I'll try to get to that once I get my drivers license back. Have you read "The Sober Truth"? It is also very informative. I too am puzzled by the fact that we are supposed a caring profession but we treat each other so horribly and in such a public manner. I mean if it were about patient safety wouldn't simple drug testing suffice over a period of time? The concept of powerlessness is simply crazy to me because at the end of the day we have to take control over our lives and exercise power and choice when we decide to stay sober. Thank you for you excellent post.
  11. by   catsmeow1972
    I actually found TWO!, yes TWO! SMART recovery meetings, about 8 blocks from my house in the rather medium to large size town i live in. I have not yet checked into them due to time constraints but without even having done more than skim the info on the website, my interest is already quite piqued. If for no other reason than they can cite explicit reasoning behind their philosophy other than "it's what we've always done and it seems to work although we don't really seem to know if it even does but if you surrender it to your higher power and work the steps it'll be fine and if it isn't it's your fault because you didn't try hard enough...." (that last sentence gave me a headache)
    Something that has always perplexed me about the 12 step model is that you will get screamed down about the evils of alcohol addiction or drug addiction or food addiction or gambling addiction or whatever addiction (because non stop meetings and working those 12 steps and I've honestly never been able to quite figure out what that means anyway, will fix all that), pause- inhale- and then go right outside and light up a cigarette. Is not nicotine an addiction? Do not many of these meetings serve coffee? Is not caffeine an addiction? How about soda? How about exercise? My point is anything done to an excess can be labeled an addiction. Alcohol and drugs ain't got the corner on the addiction racket.
    Something like SMART seems to utilize the multifaceted approach that these nurse monitoring programs should take heed of. As if we needed another point of proof that these monitoring programs are about nothing more than money, it is much easier to lazily sentence the nurse to endless years of useless, inappropriate attendance of 12 step meetings.
    Unlike 12 step which has not changed since before my father was born (and i ain't no spring chicken) SMART changes as research changes. That's refreshing. You hear horror stories of AA/NA sponsors discouraging their sponsees from taking of antidepressant medications claiming it as some sort of relapse because it's a drug. SMART encourages adherence to your medical professionals advice and APPROPRIATE use of prescribed meds, etc.
    Lest i sound like i am pimping this program, it appears on the surface to be more of the sort of thing that any kind of nurse peer assistance program should be promulgating instead of the half-arsed bull jive we have now.
    I kind of wonder if (like completion of driving school gets points off your DL) could completion through SMARTs 4 point recovery plan garner some time off a contract? Nahhhhh.....that would be considerate and caring and show some interest in actually accomplishing something good for the nurse besides raping their wallet and dignity.
  12. by   DRossy
    No, I haven't read The Sober Truth but, I'm so worried about running out of money I'm even limiting my food intake... worried I'll end up homeless. What I really don't understand is how the $&@! it isn't a HIPPA violation to publish our drug or alcohol addiction (considered a disease) or mental illness in a public magazine?! How the heck is that even legal? It blows my mind that this is done by the nursing field. I really don't get it. How are boards above the law and why don't the protections of HIPPA apply to nurses? Like this public shaming is gonna help me get a handle on my severe depression. The public humiliation which makes it hard for me to leave my house for fear of running into anyone I know I think is the reason I have daily thoughts of suicide- that and fear of homelessness and not being able to support my family. Just such a nightmare.
  13. by   DRossy
    Sucks there aren't any SMART meetings near you, they're a lot better than AA.