Im in HPRP in Michigan. Can the BON still take away my license - page 3

I currently had a substance abuse issue back in November of 2017. I went through all hoops, went to a recovery program, seeing therapist, NA groups excetera. I'm currently working with HPRP the nurse... Read More

  1. by   Lisacar130
    OK I guess that particular law firm is NOT suing the BON, but the monitoring programs. I misunderstood that. I do see an article on their website about the HPRP:
    Participation in HPRP No Longer Protects Professional Licenses
  2. by   SpankedInPittsburgh
    The article was interesting. What was more interesting was looking through the site attached to the article. I don't know who the hosts of the webpage is with all the information about monitoring programs but if they had an office in my state I would hire them. They are obviously well versed in the issues we face and no doubt have familiarity with the issues and the players involved with the world of poop we are involved in. I wish they had an office in Pennsylvania. As broke as I am I'd retain them. Ultimately it is going to take the concerted efforts of nurses subjected to these programs, the courts, legislatures and other concerned nurses to push back on these monitoring programs with as much naked avarice as they are applying to their victims.
    Last edit by SpankedInPittsburgh on Jan 14
  3. by   Lisacar130
    Yup, after looking through everything, they do look excellent.
  4. by   hppygr8ful
    Quote from Jslimp22
    No I have no idea. HPRP is our nurse recovery for Michigan but I'm afraid since my work said they have to report me to the BON they will still take away my license even though I'm with HPRP
    There could be several reasons why your employer let you go. Without knowing specific of your case it's hard to figure out. If you had criminal charges against you your licenses my be listed on the OIC exclusion list. Employers who receive federal funding ie... Medicare/Medicaid cannot have someone with a criminal record in their employ. Check the OIC list and NURSYS registries. Your BON likely knows you are in HPRP and will likely take no action as long as you are meeting the terms of your contract.

  5. by   hppygr8ful
    Quote from Jslimp22
    Is there a possibility that if they found out I was with HPRP that I wouldn't have to go infront of the board?
    Most monitoring programs require you to inform your employer as they need you to have a workplace monitor.

  6. by   Jslimp22
    You guys have no idea how much you are helping me with all this info and how much I appreciate it!

    Hppygr8ful I can't find the registries you are telling me to look for

    I am going to talk more with HPRP tomorrow and see if they have any insite. This happened Friday and their office was closed so I will call Tuesday and ask them will I be ok from the BON if I'm in the program and will they take action against me. I'm also still going to have the free consultation with the attorney as a back if and when the BON comes after me. I know I screwed up I don't need any more disciplinary action. I already know what I did and what I need to do to fix it so I accept those consequences. When work pulled me in they had stuff on my but much of it was he said she said stuff. No real proof aside from me acknowledging I did it and I have a problem. I was up front and honest. Guess that doesn't count for much anymore.
  7. by   catsmeow1972
    My advice, for what it's to the lawyers, BEFORE you sign that contract or speak further with HPRP. Should you choose to retain them, they will deal with HPRP directly. There is a reason they have that on thier advertisments.
    If HPRP is anything like my program, they will just tell you to sign the contract, period. For some odd reason (not going into that) I got board order paperwork with a "settlement agreement" to enter the program I'd already been in for over a year. I called the program and thier fantastic advice was to just sign it!! All that got me was a 2K fine and public discipline even though I voluntarily self reported! Trust me, your program don't give a ****.
  8. by   hppygr8ful
  9. by   StillRN
    So here is what I am picking up from you.. correct me if I am wrong. You got called in and we're questioned about diverting.. they likely didn't have much but you were too scared to lie so you admitted diverted. This wAs all in Nov 17'. Did your Work tell you to self report at that time? Did they tell you they were going to report you at that time? It seems weird they let you continue to work for 2 months before firing you and turning you in.

    I would definitely talk to the firm against the Hprp because they can advise u if you should speak to the board or not.

    My story: I got called in to discuss some discrepancies of oxycodone on a recent pharmacy audit ( small hospital.. in 5 years I never heard of them doing this before and had certainly made several Pyxis errors in the NICU which were never mentioned (meds were morphine -for withdrawing infants). Anyway.. they asked me if I wanted a union rep, I said yes, and they got me a good one, thankfully (I think anyway???) who told me not to say a word because he knew I was guilty after my first word of denial to him. The union attorney advised (having more knowledge of the actual extent of my crimes than the hospital did) that if they have a lot of evidence against me.. don't say a word, get an attorney because there may be legal charges and anything u say will be used against you. Doing this tho.. would likely lose my job and probably piss them off to dig further.. which I was deadly afraid of. On the other hand.. if they don't have much then admit to it, cry, beg for mercy and to keep your job since it's 9 days before Christmas they may be merciful.

    So I go with my rep into a room of 5 big wigs with pages and pages of my pharmacy records. At first they refused to tell me what evidence they had and wanted me to speak. My rep basically told them he needs to know what the evidence is before he can advise me. So first they tried to get me to stumble by grilling me about why I gave these meds at the same time, why before discharge (their crotches or c sections hurt on the ride home.. duh), they went over exact times I withdrew meds and scanned.. honest answer- sloppy nursing on a busy unit.. I was pulling meds, scanning them before I went into the room to save time. Bad practice but no tomfoolery. Then they had 3 Percocets I never scanned or returned. This was 2 months before, so I couldn't remember. I left the room with my rep and he says they are trying to give you a chance to admit it, you are getting fired no matter what. The Gods honest truth is I DID NOT divert those 3 pills. I either didn't press enter when I scanned or they went in the laundry with my scrub tops (we wore hospital scrubs) I actually found one of them on my bedroom floor weeks later.

    So KNOWING I did NOT take those meds.. I was advised to say I did, that I have a problem, beg for mercy, CRY (I faked, I couldn't cry yet.. still in shock). The reason being FEAR of what they might find. In hindsight I don't think they would have found anything they could prove, I was very careful til the end.

    So I went back in there, sobbed, admitted to having a problem and taking those pills. (Even tho I did not). They tried to get me to admit to more.. but I wouldn't. So they all felt sorry for me but still told me they were going to report me so I better self report first. They fired me over speaker phone without my rep the next day. Everyone of them are gone now- fired or left. (I was the first of 6 Nurses who got nailed in 3 months).

    So getting back to topic.. I kick myself for not getting a lawyer. I was so scared I was a mess and they didn't give me any time to even think. Because I am currently under a 5 year contract for something I didn't do, but was advised to say I did.. I just don't know . I could have just ended up with a 1 or 2 yr reprimand and classes to take.

    But I self reported- I sobbed and sobbed on the phone to this lady. She told me it doesn't matter when your employer reports.. as Long as I apply for PAP - our states confidential program- they just tell the board and the board has nothing to do with you unless you screw up. It all goes through my monitor and the board liaison (who makes decisions).

    Now generally the confidential programs are one size fits all contracts with no room to negotiate because it is voluntary. They are pretty similar to board orders with a few differences. It can't hurt to have the lawyer look it over, make sure it is appropriately done. In the cases I've read where people had attorneys.. unless the board had little evidence.. the lawyer didn't get too much-if anything changed. But we're available to give advice. You just never know what to admit to because these programs are NOT your Friend and less is more. But blatant lying. To things they have proof of is bad.

    Talk to your monitor and find out what the process will be once the get your employers complaint. Try to get as much information as possible.

    A lot of us here have been screwed over. I'm under a 5 year strict contract for something I didn't do but was advised to lie and say I did. Regardless of whatever else I may have been or not have been doing.... THAT is what I'm under contract for. I'm grateful it's not more.. but fight anger for living thru this hell for something I didn't even do!

    Good luck!!!

    Cats- you should sue!!!!! They screwed up by giving u a board order while you were already under contract!!! Unreal!!!!
  10. by   SpankedInPittsburgh
    Bless Ya Still. Your post makes me feel "lucky". In Pa. we have 3 year contracts (more like 4 in reality) but you guys with 5 year deals I really feel for. Good Luck!!! Keep fighting the good fight & this too shall pass (like a kidney stone the size of a Volkswagen no doubt).
  11. by   catsmeow1972
    Quote from StillRN

    Cats- you should sue!!!!! They screwed up by giving u a board order while you were already under contract!!! Unreal!!!!
    There's nothing really to sue about. I'm closer to the end of this than to the beginning. The fine has long since been paid (and deducted on taxes by my accountant). These people are stupid and lazy and don't care. They gave me whatever answer would involve the least amount of work and thought for them.
    This was also at a time when I thought they were there to help me. Sadly I am in this dumpster fire over an issue of untreated mental illness, not even addiction/alcoholism. I and my family fell prey to the unethical efforts to suck the money from people.
    My mom likes a phrase "you don't know what you don't know". There's truth to that. Why would I have reason to know about this stuff?
    Anyway, I am past the anger about this in particular. In regards to the public discipline, I will address the possibility of it being removed after I am done with the program. Maybe I can, maybe not. Probably in the long run, it doesn't matter.
  12. by   SpankedInPittsburgh
    yep get through this and don't look back.. don't get me wrong if you want to sue the idiots feel free but don't let it consume your life as son many in litigation do
  13. by   dirtyhippiegirl
    Quote from StillRN
    So KNOWING I did NOT take those meds.. I was advised to say I did, that I have a problem, beg for mercy, CRY (I faked, I couldn't cry yet.. still in shock). The reason being FEAR of what they might find. In hindsight I don't think they would have found anything they could prove, I was very careful til the end.
    So you were addicted to drugs and apparently diverting but you're mad that they picked up on the wrong thing? Did I read this right?

    Reading this forum sometimes makes me feel like I am on Mars or something.