Drug Abuse/Nurses/Kristi

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ikelly

34 Posts

Originally posted by PPL:

iKelly, I could not figure out how to view the article without purchasing it from the archive. Can you help? I would like to read it. Thanks.

Hi PPL,

There is another way and I just found it.

Try this: Go to The New York Times and on the front page, on the left hand side there is a site index. Go to Science/Health and click on it. Then go to the bottom of the page to Site search and click on it. Then go to Extended search and type in addiction

and search.

Go to the next 10 and it's #20. Let me know if you have a problem. This works for me.

Ida

JillR

244 Posts

This is a very heated topic and it seems very personal to many. Not only the addicts and alcoholics her but it seems very like a very personal issue the the people who don't have these diseases.

Could it be that the ones here that don't suffer with these diseases, have some kind of personal experience with the issue, and I'm not talking about with your co-worker, but perhaps with loved ones.

Being a recovering alcoholic, I have found that many of the nurses I know may not be addicts or alcoholics, but have lived with them, loved them and have been very hurt by the lies, broken promises, and manipulation that goes along with it. Maybe thats why many are drawn to nursing. We (including myself) may have gotton out of that co-dependant relationship, but go right into nursing, which in its own way is almost requires a co-dependant personality to be a successful nurse.

Think about it. In what other career can you be totally responsible for someone else for 8-12 hours a day and get payed for it. We are not only responsable for peoples meds, eating habits, bowel movements, breathing, cardiac function, but for there welfare, comfort and emotions and on and on. Sounds like a perfect career for a co-dependant personality to me.

I am not trying to be funny, or sarcastic here, I am totally serious.

I come from a strong alcohic background, and I have not only experienced alcoholism personally but also co-dependancy. It took a long hard look at myself to see that I have been co-dependant since day one and I refuse to do it anymore. Part of co-dependancy is not making the person who is the alcoholic/addict to take responsibility for their actions, and I believe in doing that we do more harm than good for the person. Also taking resposibility for the alcohol/drug use as in "if I didnt do this" ot "if I would do this" then the person would not drink/use. Its a bunch of crap.

As nurses we take much responsibility away from patients when they are admitted to our units and take it on ourselves. It never seems to fail that soemtimes no matter what we do, someone will die anyway. It's really not in our hand after all, now is it?

I am sorry I have been babbling but I feel better for doing it.

I feel that those of you that have worked with addict nurses that are using when they are working have every right to be angry. It would make me very angry to know that someone is using a pain med that a patient needs and now the patient is in terrible pain because the med wasn't really given but diverted. Just the idea of it makes me angry.

But, I also feel that the same nurses are angry at the fact that THEY were hurt by it. That somehow THEY should have, could have noticed. That they were somehow resposible because they did't notice, or was not able to prove it. Addict and alcoholics are very manipulative,sneaky, and deceptive people. I just feel that both side are looking at this issue froma very narrow viewpoint and maybe you can't possibly see the other view because the non addicts/alcolholics will nver walk a mile in their shoes and the addict well.....ditto.

Thanks for letting me vent this here.

Trauma Columnist

traumaRUs, MSN, APRN

88 Articles; 21,249 Posts

Specializes in Nephrology, Cardiology, ER, ICU.

My anger is directed at the nurse who endangered MY license by asking me to witness the waste. MY credibility was then called on - was I knowlingly wasting normal saline? I have to say that I was one of several nurses who had wasted with this nurse and we were all questioned. I am offended too that all nurses have to be co-dependent. I don't drink, smoke, do drugs and have been married for over 20 years (faithfully). I am an ER nurse because I feel education of pts is the key to their continued good health not my ability to be co-dependent!

karent

3 Posts

Originally posted by PPL:

Actually, Karen, I'm ALWAYS in favor of folks making good choices, and I have a good deal of education re addiction; I just don't happen to buy into it, lock, stock and barrel. Are you inferring though that addicts are NOT exceptional at deception? Because, if you are, I disagree. The MAJORITY of addicts I have known are MASTERS at it. Of course, once their habit consumes every living moment, they eventually make mistakes, get sloppy, etc. What would YOU have done if you encountered these two? I mean, they weren't exactly TEAM PLAYERS! By the way, I checked out your web site. I am not averse to listening to the opinions of people who take a different approach; I'm just not in agreement that there is ONLY one approach. Thanks Karen.

There is never just one approach, my friend. It comes down to what seems appropriate

at the time.

What are the policies in your hospital? What does your state Nurse Practice Act say?

Ours says we are breaking the act if we suspect someone of abuse and don't report it.

In Louisiana, we document to the hilt and then report to the Recovering Nurse Program.They send in an investigator and if there is a problem, (more often than not there is) the person is sent for an inpatient evaluation.

You don't wake up one day and decide that so and so has a problem...right? If you suspect someone has a problem, they probably do. Our doubt overlay can keep us from taking action. Sometimes talking to a professional will help.

Most times, when I encounter someone who bashes reovering nurses it's because they hit too close to home. Someone in the family has the diseaseor the basher themselves. When there is a lot of anger, you will always find fear underneath.

Karen

------------------

http://www.tktucker.net/nir/

Nurses in Recovery

http://www.tktucker.net/

Tina's Place

BJA

28 Posts

What a great topic! Obviously very near and dear to the hearts of many.

I went through a drug and alcohol treatment program 10 years before I started nursing school. I have now been clean and sober for almost 20 years.

I believe that nurses who are addicted need our support IF they are willing to seek help. They absolutely must have an interest in their own recovery. Forcing a person into a treatment program is often a waste of time. In fact, the success rate of most treatment programs is a whopping ONE OUT OF TEN!! This is probably a generous estimate.

There is already a mechanism in place in most states for dealing with this issue. Of course it involves random drug tests, limiting access to drugs, etc. I agree that the addict always finds a way around these sanctions. I don't have any great answers, just more questions.

I think part of the reason I have stayed straight for so long is because of the rather unique approach of treatment center I was involved with. Suffice to say that I carry a medallion with the motto, "LIFE IS CHOICE."

I hope that everyone will work on their compassion for addicted nurses and that any currently "using" nurses will realize that they do have a choice. Chose to seek help.

God grant me the Serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the Courage to change the things I can, and the Wisdom to know the difference.

PPL, BSN, RN

173 Posts

iKelly, thanks. I was able to access the article and read it, along with most of the others, so now I'm cross-eyed, on top of being opinionated! It interests me that I am considered cruel, angry, etc., because of my point of view, when the addicted posters who have written seem really angry to me.

PPL, BSN, RN

173 Posts

Sorry, I submitted my reply, without meaning to. The last poster, BJA, seems the most open and without anger in her/his post. What also interests me is when people say they had no choice and/or did not realize they had a choice; then when "confronted" to get treatment, or lose their license, all of a sudden they recognize choice? Now, we all move along the self discovery road at a different speed, and some are more able to look inside themselves deeper than others. Some however, seem more interested in pointing a finger at me, for my "anger" and "fear" and "cold, calculating" ways; oh, and did I forget "ignorant" and "shallow"? Who's angry here? Some of you have had a hard way to go since you chose to get clean and/or sober, and while I believe you, I am not responsible for that. Am I allowed no feelings for having worked along side of you when you were using and/or diverting drugs? Thanks.

Joankim

19 Posts

PPL,

You are certainly entitled to whatever feelings you have, as well as your opinions. You stated several times in your posts that the replies were something you expected.Yet again you sound hurt by some of the things expressed here. However,it seems no matter what anyone replies to you have a retort!! While I can't stick up for anyone else this has been a very heated topic.

You have obviously had some very bad experiences with impaired nurses and can think what you want and may feel your feelings are very substantiated by all your experiences.

You asked questions and were given answers, many of which you did not seem to like or accept. Unfortunately, addiction goes on, some recover and grow , and some do not.

As far as your opinion of choices goes... I will try one more time.Yes,all addicts( and everyone else) has a choice. However in my active addiction I was not aware that I had a choice.You express that we knew we had choices and just continued to make bad ones until we were forced into making different choices.I am having a difficult time expressing what is was like to someone who is not as addict. I knew I was doing wrong things,but was afraid if I admitted how bad off I was and exactly what I was doing to anyone I would lose my license and would be shunned by society, a society that included my nursing peers. I did not know there was a way out.I lived a life of pure hell the last year or more of my active addiction. I honestly could not see a way out. I considered suicide as a viable option at one point, and if I had not lost a brother in a car accident , killed by a drunk driver I probably would have killed myself. I knew what it would do to my parents however, so I just kept doing what I was doing because I could not stop. It wasn't until I was caught and had to admit there was a problem, went thru detox and treatment that I learned all these things.

And to be honest,if I was not recovering, I would be uneducated about this whole stinking disease and probably think just like you; that is that we are all scum, and we are not worthy to function as nurses, and maybe not in society.

I do have a different view of addiction now, but find that there are MANY more nurses out there with views like yours versus compasionate and willing to overlook the addicive parts of our selves.I am not slamming you or trying to put you down, as I stated you are entitled to your opinion and that is OK.When it comes down to it, I have to remind myself daily, that we are all children of God, and we have some lost and floundering souls out there

Forgiveness and love based thinking help me to be a better person, then when I am all emotional, angry and wanting to fight.So at any rate there have been many interesting things posted here and this has been an enlightening topic.

BJA

28 Posts

Joankim, Your comment about choice reminded me of some things I hadn't thought of in a while. I was in a treatment program before I realized that I had a choice. It was a hard lesson. It can be very refreshing and enlightening to realize that there is a choice involved in life. A funny aside: There was a man in treatment with me who was at the time a successful businessman/alcoholic. He related a story about working in a meat packing plant and being told that he should eat his lunch next to a dead cow. He said it was an unpleasant experience. The counselor told him that he could have chosen to eat somewhere else. His eyes lit up and he said, "You mean I could have decided to eat my lunch somewhere else?!" In realizing "choice" he found his freedom. I know that was a weird story, but it is just to demonstrate that yes, we all find our way at different times and different ways. Be patient, some of us are slow learners.

I must agree too, that those of us who work with "using" nurses have an obligation to the patient, first and foremost. If that means reporting a co-worker, then so be it. Hopefully, that will be the first step to recovery. Nurses, like others, need to be given an chance to recover without such severe sanctions that they can no longer work in the profession. But, I must reiterate, protect the patient.

I think I have done quite a fine job of talking in circles, so I will quit for now.

PPL, BSN, RN

173 Posts

JoanKim, I don't know what to say, because now you have added "hurt" to all the other things said about me. For me, hurt does not enter into this topic. I put those things in quotes because they were stated, and I believe they were stated in anger. Another thing, I have never referred to anyone as scum, so where is that coming from? I did expect some strong responses, and it's not whether I like and/or accept them, but I am after the truth, which obviously, is very different for you, than it is for me. Indeed, the truth can be very painful, but I seek it, from myself and from others. You said you knew you were "doing wrong things" but are you saying that in doing so, that doing wrong things was not CHOOSING to do wrong things? I believe you KNEW right from wrong, but are you saying you couldn't CHOOSE the right thing? That is what I hear. If so, that is where I'm having trouble, I think, because any time I have done wrong, I knew I was doing wrong, and I knew I chose it. Also, I knew when and to what extent I was rationalizing why it was OK to do wrong. Then, when you got caught, you WERE able to make the right choice, even if it WAS mandated, so you felt there WAS no choice, but there was. Thank heavens you didn't CHOOSE that other option, which was to continue to do drugs! On THAT, I think we can ALL agree!

Joankim

19 Posts

PPL,

LOL!! That is apparently all we will ever agree on as far s this topic goes!!! It amuses me that you asume when I post things they are all directed at you! I was the person who referred to myself as scum, in the context that that is how many people perceive addicts. We are thought of as pond scum, part of the very lowest chain of living existance. Regardles of what you or anyone else thinks, we are not bad people. My intentions when I was not using were not to harm other people, especially fellow nurses, You and others here think that you were used on purpose. Many addicts hurt the ones closest to them and everyone else... but I doubt you understand that concept.... Making bad choices is not rationalizing, but I am not going to attempt any more esplnations.There have been many people posting here, attempting to explain what is ws like for them. You challenge every post ... ...

I think you would have to be an addict to truly understand.Not just about choices, which really seems to baffle you but the entire relm of addiction.

karent

3 Posts

Originally posted by PPL:

I did expect some strong responses, and it's not whether I like and/or accept them, but I am after the truth, which obviously, is very different for you, than it is for me. Indeed, the truth can be very painful, but I seek it, from myself and from others. !

Sometimes I forget that my truth/reality may be way different from yours. Today I try

to accept that others have their own reality which actually gives me quite abit of freedom.

Be well,

Karen

------------------

http://www.tktucker.net/nir/

Nurses in Recovery

http://www.tktucker.net/

Tina's Place

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